Tim Walz

[billeisele 130]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Please, please, please stop this way of presenting a non point. You are much better than this, Bill.

I'm confused. Don't see what the non-point is. I presented the info that some asked for. I have no clue if these guys are biased or have an axe to grind. Some of what they stated is their opinion. Others could have the opposite opinion.

I have no clue who Walz is, and I suspect that most others don't eighter. All we have is what's being reported. I don't trust any of the media. Direct statements from people that know the guy have weight.

[JoeWeber 2,562]

10 minutes ago, billeisele said:

I'm confused. Don't see what the non-point is. I presented the info that some asked for. I have no clue if these guys are biased or have an axe to grind. Some of what they stated is their opinion. Others could have the opposite opinion.

I have no clue who Walz is, and I suspect that most others don't eighter. All we have is what's being reported. I don't trust any of the media. Direct statements from people that know the guy have weight.

Crap from Fox News that you acknowledge could be biased bullshit. Why post it?

[gowlerk 2,097]

29 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

 You are much better than this, Bill.

Are you sure about that? Do you know him in real life?

[billeisele 130]

19 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Crap from Fox News that you acknowledge could be biased bullshit. Why post it?

The things the talking heads say is questioned and none was posted. The quotes from the two guys isn't questioned, except to say that's their reality and some is their opinion.

If in fact his governor's website bio says he's a CSM, and further says that he carried a gun in war, those are problems.

Found this bio Governor Tim Walz / Office of Governor Tim Walz and Lt. Governor Peggy Flanagan (mn.gov) and it says, "After 24 years in the Army National Guard, Command Sergeant Major Walz retired from the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion in 2005." Not good.

Found this bio as a US Congressman. It says, "Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard at the young age of 17, and retired 24 years later as Command Sergeant Major. Before retiring, Walz served overseas with his battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom." We know that's incorrect. Who wrote it, we have no clue. Did Walz know about it and not correct it, also no clue. I guess it's possible that he wouldn't know about it but that's kinda difficult to believe. HHRG-115-HA00-Bio-WalzT-20170215.pdf (congress.gov)

[JoeWeber 2,562]

2 minutes ago, billeisele said:

The things the talking heads say is questioned and none was posted. The quotes from the two guys isn't questioned, except to say that's their reality and some is their opinion.

If in fact his governor's website bio says he's a CSM, and further says that he carried a gun in war, those are problems.

Found this bio Governor Tim Walz / Office of Governor Tim Walz and Lt. Governor Peggy Flanagan (mn.gov) and it says, "After 24 years in the Army National Guard, Command Sergeant Major Walz retired from the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion in 2005." Not good.

Found this bio as a US Congressman. It says, "Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard at the young age of 17, and retired 24 years later as Command Sergeant Major. Before retiring, Walz served overseas with his battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom." We know that's incorrect. Who wrote it, we have no clue. Did Walz know about it and not correct it, also no clue. I guess it's possible that he wouldn't know about it but that's kinda difficult to believe. HHRG-115-HA00-Bio-WalzT-20170215.pdf (congress.gov)

Okay, he was a Command Sergeant Major when he retired and was then reduced in rank to Sergeant Major subsequently due to incomplete course work, correct? Then there is this: "Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard at the young age of 17, and retired 24 years later as Command Sergeant Major. Before retiring, Walz served overseas with his battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom." (Not good, your slam. Followed by your acknowledgement that the authorship of the attack is unknown. To quote you: Not good) Now I don't know how much of a stretch it is to conclude that his deployment to Italy was in any detail in support of Enduring Freedom, but we can confidently guess it wasn't to perfect his Margarita Pizza recipe. The real problem is you don't know jack about it any more than I do but you are letting yourself get sucked into another round of slime ball Republican Swift Boating of a guy with 24 years in military service, all honorable. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,262]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

Quotes from 2 men that served with Walz. Who knows if these two guys are credible and if their statements are accurate. The quotes were made during a FOX interview. If it was the FOX talking heads that said the words I'd be skeptical.

Spoke with a CSM friend at the monthly AUSA meeting at Fort Jackson on Wednesday. He said that they take that rank seriously and it's inappropriate for anyone to claim that rank if they didn't achieve it.

 

Command Sgt Major Thomas Behrends (retired) served with Gov Waltz has accused him of embellishing his time in the service and abandoning his unit just before they deployed. Behrends, who said he was a member of Walz's battalion, scolded the Minnesota governor for misleading the American public about his military career. 

His service concluded when he retired from his unit in the Minnesota National Guard right before they deployed to Iraq in 2005. Asked about Trump running mate Sen. JD Vance's accusation that Walz is guilty of "stolen valor," the National Guard veteran said that it's "far darker than a lot of people think."

"He's used the rank that he never achieved in order to advance his political career," he said. "I mean, he still says he's a retired command sergeant major to this day, and he's not. He uses the rank of others to make it look like he's a better person than he is." 

Waltz is described as a retired "command sergeant major" in his governor's website biography and has also claimed he carried a gun "in war," despite never experiencing active combat. The Minnesota National Guard has said that he retired as a master sergeant.

"To most people, that would mean that he was actually in combat, carrying a weapon in a combat zone and getting combat pay and in a dangerous and hostile environment where he is getting shot at," Behrends said. "I mean, if he thinks Italy was a combat zone or a war zone and he was carrying that in war, he's delusional," he added.

Behrends said Walz had been promoted to command sergeant major in 2004, but claimed he was required to serve two additional years or the promotion would be void. His early retirement terminated the promotion, reducing his rank to master sergeant, Behrends said. "What he did, basically, was he quit. He didn't complete that condition of doing two years after graduation, so he gets reduced to a master sergeant, and that's what he is right now, is a retired master sergeant."

"From what I get from the soldiers that I went to Iraq with, probably 98% of them are completely against him embellishing his record," he said. "Don't try to make it look like you were a command sergeant major. Don't try to make it look like you were going to some place that was in support of Operation Enduring Freedom… that's just all embellishment and lies to try to make things look better."

Tom Schilling, who also said he was a member of Walz's battalion, slammed his actions as "dishonorable." "I have my stories about what he did to the military, when he left us like that, and I was kind of like, ‘Are you kidding me?’" Schilling said, recalling his reaction when he heard Harris tapped Walz as her running mate. "We all did what we were supposed to do, we did the right thing, and it's dishonorable what he did," Schilling said. "He left somebody else to take over his spot. He just ditched us."

Hi Bill,

Just for the record:  Where did you get this info?

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  At all times, the military is ripe with rumor; more than any other organization that I know of.

[JerryBaumchen 1,262]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

I'm confused. Don't see what the non-point is. I presented the info that some asked for. I have no clue if these guys are biased or have an axe to grind. Some of what they stated is their opinion. Others could have the opposite opinion.

I have no clue who Walz is, and I suspect that most others don't eighter. All we have is what's being reported. I don't trust any of the media. Direct statements from people that know the guy have weight.

Hi Bill,

But you, explicitly trust the rumor mill.

Good for you; just another MAGA.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,262]

51 minutes ago, billeisele said:

The things the talking heads say is questioned and none was posted. The quotes from the two guys isn't questioned, except to say that's their reality and some is their opinion.

If in fact his governor's website bio says he's a CSM, and further says that he carried a gun in war, those are problems.

Found this bio Governor Tim Walz / Office of Governor Tim Walz and Lt. Governor Peggy Flanagan (mn.gov) and it says, "After 24 years in the Army National Guard, Command Sergeant Major Walz retired from the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion in 2005." Not good.

Found this bio as a US Congressman. It says, "Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard at the young age of 17, and retired 24 years later as Command Sergeant Major. Before retiring, Walz served overseas with his battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom." We know that's incorrect. Who wrote it, we have no clue. Did Walz know about it and not correct it, also no clue. I guess it's possible that he wouldn't know about it but that's kinda difficult to believe. HHRG-115-HA00-Bio-WalzT-20170215.pdf (congress.gov)

Hi Bill,

Have you ever served in the US military?

Re:  Walz served overseas with his battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.

One does not have to be in a combat zone for that to be true.  All military people, who were in at the time, were in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.

You are simply passing off 'what you heard' as being more factual than accredited news services.

Jerry Baumchen

 

 

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,262]

38 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Okay, he was a Command Sergeant Major when he retired and was then reduced in rank to Sergeant Major subsequently due to incomplete course work, correct? Then there is this: "Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard at the young age of 17, and retired 24 years later as Command Sergeant Major. Before retiring, Walz served overseas with his battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom." (Not good, your slam. Followed by your acknowledgement that the authorship of the attack is unknown. To quote you: Not good) Now I don't know how much of a stretch it is to conclude that his deployment to Italy was in any detail in support of Enduring Freedom, but we can confidently guess it wasn't to perfect his Margarita Pizza recipe. The real problem is you don't know jack about it any more than I do but you are letting yourself get sucked into another round of slime ball Republican Swift Boating of a guy with 24 years in military service, all honorable. 

Hi Joe,

The one bit of truth since Bill posted his B***S***.

Thank You.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  As a veteran, I hate it when someone tries to denigrate anyone's service to their country.  Oh Bill, how about your guy Cadet BoneSpurs - where did he serve?

 

[obelixtim 141]

Its all irrelevant nonsense anyway, his service is beyond question. All it is boils down to the MAGA mob desperately flailing around because they have nothing to offer, and nothing to compare in terms of their own credentials. Its the same with the bs about Harris and her ethnicity. Totally irrelevant to their ability to lead the US in the future.  

[billvon 2,723]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

 The real problem is you don't know jack about it any more than I do but you are letting yourself get sucked into another round of slime ball Republican Swift Boating of a guy with 24 years in military service, all honorable. 

Keep in mind that his side thinks veterans are "suckers" and "losers."  They are going to find fault with ANY veteran.  Unless, of course, he has an R after his name.

[ryoder 1,547]

Adam Kinzinger explains the issues, in a Substack article:

The Swiftboating of Walz is Sick, Inacurate, and Will Fail

Or even better, listen to him in this video:

 

[JoeWeber 2,562]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

The one bit of truth since Bill posted his B***S***.

Thank You.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  As a veteran, I hate it when someone tries to denigrate anyone's service to their country.  Oh Bill, how about your guy Cadet BoneSpurs - where did he serve?

 

A couple of years ago I stepped away from SC for a year because of weirdness like what Bill does. I told Ken, who has the ability to keep me reasonably organized, of my plan and then executed. I am again getting close.

[nigel99 288]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

Adam Kinzinger explains the issues, in a Substack article:

The Swiftboating of Walz is Sick, Inacurate, and Will Fail

Or even better, listen to him in this video:

 

It’s a problem with modern politics,  the 24 hours news cycle and the sound bite generation.

Politicians who can provide a sound bit solution to complex problems grab the attention of the broader public. 

People are either too lazy or incapable of delving into the complexity of issues and sadly that’s where people like Donald typically do quite well.

[jakee 1,341]

3 hours ago, billeisele said:

If in fact his governor's website bio says he's a CSM, and further says that he carried a gun in war, those are problems.
 

His governors website does say he was a CSM… and he was. He did the job. He was addressed by the title. He wore the rank on his uniform. He was a CSM, then after retirement he wasn’t anymore. 
 

His governors website does not say he carried a gun in war.

[wmw999 2,313]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

A couple of years ago I stepped away from SC for a year because of weirdness like what Bill does. I told Ken, who has the ability to keep me reasonably organized, of my plan and then executed. I am again getting close.

You're not the only one. SC and FB are the only places I hear first-hand MAGA stuff, because I largely don't listen to TV news, and live in a very blue section of the country. I find that valuable, because I have friends who can honestly explain why they feel that way. 

But I'll admit I don't post political stuff on the old Texas skydivers group (yes, there is such a thing), because I'd get dogpiled worse than people get dogpiled here. 

The dogpiling doesn't help anyone to understand; it's way more about the person doing the attacking than it is about the person being attacked. And that's fine, if someone says something like "how can you be for that -- here's how it affected my family." But the "only a fucking idiot would think that way" approach to debate never convinces anyone. You might change a single erroneous viewpoint (like whether metric or English measurements are better), but a worldview? No

Wendy P.

[gowlerk 2,097]

9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

The real problem is you don't know jack about it any more than I do but you are letting yourself get sucked into another round of slime ball Republican Swift Boating of a guy with 24 years in military service, all honorable. 

Hopefully we and the rest of the world just start ignoring it as it has been addressed and is over. This swift boat type attack becomes more effective the more it gets talked about. Coach Walz is inspirational.

[billeisele 130]

9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Okay, he was a Command Sergeant Major when he retired and was then reduced in rank to Sergeant Major subsequently due to incomplete course work, correct? Then there is this: "Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard at the young age of 17, and retired 24 years later as Command Sergeant Major. Before retiring, Walz served overseas with his battalion in support of Operation Enduring Freedom." (Not good, your slam. Followed by your acknowledgement that the authorship of the attack is unknown. To quote you: Not good) Now I don't know how much of a stretch it is to conclude that his deployment to Italy was in any detail in support of Enduring Freedom, but we can confidently guess it wasn't to perfect his Margarita Pizza recipe. The real problem is you don't know jack about it any more than I do but you are letting yourself get sucked into another round of slime ball Republican Swift Boating of a guy with 24 years in military service, all honorable. 

No one is denying his honorable service. No one is denying what Trump did. The comments aren't comparing Trump and Walz.

Was he a CSM, yes. He clearly knew that wasn't permanent. Most reading the bios would think that he retired as a CSM. At best it's misleading. The bio links were provided. The CNN link is below. 

The not good comment was directed as his claims that are false. The CSM claim is in his Governor bio and in in his congressional bio. Both those links were provided. Both of which he had years to correct. The two guys making the accusations served with Walz. These are not R Swift Boating talking points.

Here's the CNN report on the weapons at war topic. The more this stuff is denied the worse it gets.   CNN fact-checks Tim Walz about ‘absolutely false’ claim he carried weapons 'in war' (msn.com)

Edited August 9 by billeisele

[wmw999 2,313]

You're choosing your sources just as much as everyone else; you choose to disbelieve the official records of the Minnesota Guard. Here's a quote from Military.com

Quote

Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard in Nebraska in 1981 and retired honorably in 2005 as the top enlisted soldier for 1st Battalion, 125th Field Artillery Regiment, in the Minnesota National Guard, according to a copy of his records provided by the Minnesota Guard. He reached the rank of command sergeant major and served in that role, but he officially retired as a master sergeant for benefits purposes because he didn't finish a required training course, according to the records and a statement from the Minnesota Guard.

That's pretty straightforward. Life is generally more complicated than either/or. For instance, I was a technical manager at a company that had a hard requirement for a STEM degree for technical management. Our director wrote a waiver so that I could be promoted to the management role -- was that "favoritism," or "not letting regulations get in the way of the right decision?" It's a good thing that I'm not running for public office, because it could certainly be spun either way, couldn't it?

Wendy P.

[kallend 1,822]

18 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Wendy,

That is

Hi Ken,

Re:  In other words again with the "some people are saying" nonsense.

It's a Trump-kinda thing.

Jerry Baumchen

Seems Trump has a new boast:

“Nobody has spoken to crowds bigger than me”

[billeisele 130]

1 minute ago, wmw999 said:

You're choosing your sources just as much as everyone else; you choose to disbelieve the official records of the Minnesota Guard. Here's a quote from Military.com

That's pretty straightforward. Life is generally more complicated than either/or. For instance, I was a technical manager at a company that had a hard requirement for a STEM degree for technical management. Our director wrote a waiver so that I could be promoted to the management role -- was that "favoritism," or "not letting regulations get in the way of the right decision?" It's a good thing that I'm not running for public office, because it could certainly be spun either way, couldn't it?

Wendy P.

Good morning.  The sources are direct comments by soldiers that served with him (and I clearly stated that they could be biased), CNN, his Governors website and the Congressional record. If those sources aren't sufficient which ones would be acceptable?

The problem is the perception he's either created or allowed to exist in both his bios. According to the CSM I spoke with the military folks take this stuff seriously. It can't be glossed over, pushed aside or redefined.

To Jerrys question: No I did not serve in the military. It's definitely not the same but I've worked with the DoD for 30+ years interacting with civilian DoD employees, enlisted folks all the way up to Base Commanders in the Army, Navy, Marine Corp, Air Force and National Guard at Fort Jackson, Parris Island, Naval Weapons Station, Marine Corps Air Station, two Navy Hospitals, Shaw AFB, McEntire ANG Base, USCG Charleston and others like Army Corps and NAVFAC. All that says is I have some experience with the military.  

My distaste for politics continues. Certainly we have better people that any of the current candidates.

[wmw999 2,313]

Which sources are more likely to be reliable? A selected two who say one thing, out of the (undoubtedly) hundreds or more who served with him? Many of them would be likely to remember him; for one thing, one tends to remember encounters with later celebrity, but also as a master (or command master) sergeant, one would interact with a lot of people. It’s your job.

Its like the people who say Hillary Clinton is a stone bitch. I know people who say she’s one of the nicest people in the world, but who has strong opinions. Who’s right?

Military people do take that seriously, and even more so if they’re either promoting or dissing an image. My father has to leave the naval reserve when we went to Brazil in 1960; he wasn’t quite eligible for retirement (he’d enlisted in 1941). No, he didn’t announce himself as retired, but the one time he went to a VA hospital, he was kind of tickled when they called him Commander instead of Lieutenant Commander 

It’s generally forgive people we’re generally on board with than people we disagree with or differ from. That’s part of why the balance of juries is important, and it’s real, 

Wendy P. 

[Phil1111 1,077]

Vets Group Calls BS on GOP Attacks of Tim Walz’s Military Service Three different veterans groups have all stated that the attacks on Walz's service record is b.s.

But for commander bone spurs "suckers" and "losers" arguing over such distractions all serves up a good meal for his base.

[gowlerk 2,097]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

My distaste for politics continues. Certainly we have better people that any of the current candidates.

Apparently the majority of R party sympathizers prefer Trump. That says something. 

Tampon Tim for the win.

Edited August 9 by gowlerk

[normiss 723]

Meanwhile, others that served with him see it differently:

https://www.newsweek.com/tim-walz-did-something-wrong-service-former-command-sgt-major-1936798#:~:text=Walz achieved the rank of,the Minnesota governorship in 2018.

It's not like he took a high paying DoD position due to his experience in the military, nah, honorable service members won't do that either. /s

He went to Congress, to continue serving his country.