PFF/AFF enquiry

[SCOTT.FRASER 0]

Hi guys,

I'm very new to this forum and looking for some information. I'm currently residing in Toronto, Canada and i'm really keen to become a solo certified diver. As i'm travelling the world however, i'm looking for information as to the best place to learn through either a PFF or AFF course then to quickly graduate to an A-licence so i can jump in other countries round the world. (is this possible or have i missed anything?)

I have done some research into local DZ's and Skydive Toronto seem to be the best around and are offering the whole PFF course (consisting of ground course and 10 jumps) for $2265 Taxes included. Is this a reasonable price?

Also, in order to obtain an A licence, is it correct i need to complete 25 skydives? If so, do i need any further course work/training/tests to obtain the A licence?

Sorry for the nieve questions but any responses would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

[Bertt 0]

Don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. you need 25 skydives and there's a list of items to check off after AFF. e.g. land within 20 meters of a target 5 times. pack a parachute. dive out of the airplane and dock with another skydiver. A local DZ should be able to give you more details.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[gowlerk 1,904]

CSPA requirements are found in a long boring publication called "PIM 1 part 1. Find it here:

http://www.cspa.ca/docs/en/pim/PIM1.pdf

And good luck, fascinating reading.

The ratings issued in Canada by CSPA are FAI (International) ratings and are recognized around the world. PFF is generally the fastest route to your A COP, but much depends on your commitment and ability. Dropzones are pretty much competitive on the price of training. Much more important is to go where they can provide the training when you are available. (Are they open only weekends? Are they very busy with tandems and do they have the staff resources to look after you?)

The far greater factor than money is the time commitment skydiving demands. Don't decide on a DZ by price alone. Once you do decide you should be prepared to stay at the same DZ until you are trained. After that the world can be your oyster.

Ken from Winnipeg

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[ekk20 0]

I'm currently a student at Skydive Burnaby. This coming Friday will be ground school which they host I believe once a month. It's 3 Tandem jumps for your first 3 jumps, then you would do ground school, then first solo jump with two instructors, and 6 more with one instructor, and a hop and pop. Come out this Friday, do some tandems during the afternoon and do ground school at 5! The folks there are awesome, I'm pretty happy I chose them as my DZ. Best of luck!

[milehigheric 0]

3 tandems

[Joellercoaster 6]

Your problem with this is?

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[DcloudZ 0]

Creates dependency.

"Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way." -Alan Watts

[NorrinRadd 0]

ekk20

I'm currently a student at Skydive Burnaby. This coming Friday will be ground school which they host I believe once a month. It's 3 Tandem jumps for your first 3 jumps, then you would do ground school, then first solo jump with two instructors, and 6 more with one instructor, and a hop and pop. Come out this Friday, do some tandems during the afternoon and do ground school at 5! The folks there are awesome, I'm pretty happy I chose them as my DZ. Best of luck!

I will be there! Woot! Look for the 6'3" bald guy.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[NorrinRadd 0]

milehigheric

3 tandems

They teach you tracking, turns, altitude awareness during FF. Then you basically have a canopy piloting coach riding with you, teaching you what you need to know the rest of the way down. I have had no issues with the 3 tandems. There is no convenient wind tunnel nearby, and there is only one drop with two instructors.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[dzswoop717 5]

I dissagree with it creating dependency. I taught the tandem progression method several years ago as TI and AFF I. The instruction you can give a student in free fall and under canopy can't be equaled by hand signals and radios. Most of our students needed very little radio input when they were under their own canopy for the first time. When you take flying lessons, you don't take a ground school and SOLO on your first flight. The tandem jumps built the confidence of the student because on their first IAD jump they had already learned altitude awareness, turns, practice pulls. forward movement. and canopy control. They had experienced freefall and nothing was going to surprise them. If I ever get back into the DZ business I would use the tandem progression method for sure. Best one on one training possible.
Add some tunnel time and it would be the perfect training method.

[pchapman 261]

milehigheric

3 tandems

Skydive Burnaby (near Lake Erie in Ontario) uses a tandem progression system, using 'working tandems' to progress to a single 2:1 PFF, then 1:1 PFF's.

They are a well respected DZ with a very competent chief instructor. So if their system is a little more involved than some, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, figuring they do that to train better, and not to fleece students out of more cash.

In the Canadian system, you will still be jumping with a PFF instructor right through to your Solo licence at a minimum of 10 jumps. (Except for the solo hop and pop jump). That's even though the classic PFF levels are similar to AFF levels, with both systems having had a core set of around 7 jumps. (Though I don't know the fine details of how both systems were historically implemented.)

Hope that answers your question.

@ the O.P.:
As for prices, I can't compare Ontario DZ's. I know some of the Quebec DZ's have large PFF programs and are able to keep costs a little lower. Skydive Toronto does get pretty busy with tandems, especially this season where they lost their big plane and are working on getting another. PFF jumps are therefore best made on weekdays if that's an option for you, and they are open 7 days a week in the summer.

Edit:
Tandem progression really sucks if implemented poorly, but can work if done right. If an instructor is doing tandems all day and is handed a student at a 10 minute call and is told "he's doing his level 2", then the system isn't right. If the DZ & instructor handles it more like a full PFF jump with plenty of briefing and practice, then its OK.

[NorrinRadd 0]

pchapman

***3 tandems

They are a well respected DZ with a very competent chief instructor. So if their system is a little more involved than some, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, figuring they do that to train better, and not to fleece students out of more cash.



I had SD Burnaby recommended to me by two friends. Both are experienced skydivers... one is a master rigger in Eloy, the other is a paratrooper as well as a skydive photographer in Australia. Neither have been to SD Burnaby, so their recommendations were based on the DZ's rep alone. I also know them and know that they would only give me the best recommendation they could.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[dzswoop717 5]

I agree with you that if not given the time and good instructors Tandem progression can be less than perfect. This is true with any teaching method. I made an error in my earlier post, after the tandems we did IAF. Instructor assisted freefall. not IAD. Our tandem progression was a little out dated even in the late ninties. We did 5 tandems and 5 single instructor assisted dives. The program had coach jumps and all the necessay training to get a student to their A license. Most of the TI's thought that 5 tandems was to many but It was the owners teaching method so we made the best of it. On the last tandem I could let the student do every thing except throw the drouge and release the brakes (because they couldn't reach them). One on One canopy control teaching can't be beat. I would explain every phase of canopy flight and even stalls and brake turns. Some even got some emergency procedure training when we had malfunctions. All in all it was the best training method that I taught and I had done straight Aff and static line for 13 years before getting my Tandem rating and teaching tandem progression.