Student canopies/line twist?

[normiss 622]

There is nothing wrong with those canopies for the right student.
That's instructor experience and knowledge come into play.

I don't mean to attack or insult you by any means.
I just don't think with your jump numbers that you know enough about parachutes yet.

I don't think I know enough about them either.

[DocPop 1]

DivingWombat

You all should drop a mail do PD and tell them to advertise a Sabre 2 as a student canopy.

Sure, if you hang a 100lb girl under a 170sf it might work pretty well.
On the other side I have seen a 140lb guy (student) breaking his leg 4 times under a 170sf S2. Was just a crosswind landing with some "wrong" input.

YMMV but I won't change my mind. A S2 is not a student canopy and can get pretty violent with some line twists. A stundent canopy in the 230-280 range will most probably fly level and won't dive.

You're out of your depth here.

I am pretty sure PD know that an appropriately loaded Sabre2 is fine for a student canopy which is why their wing-loading chart has a Sabre2 170 loaded at up to 136lbs in the student category: http://www.performancedesigns.com/sabre2.asp

Just because you know someone who got hurt jumping a Sabre2 doesn't mean it is a bad canopy choice (provided it is loaded right). I dislocated my should under a Navigator 220 on AFF L2 - by your reasoning that is not a suitable student canopy.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DivingWombat 0]

I think "THE right student" can even safely fly a 170 stiletto or maybe even a 150 XF...until something unexpected happens.

I had a couple of linetwists (which is the topic of the thread) on big student canopies. Solution: Wait till it untwists by itself or maybe help a bit with some kicks.
Linetwists on a Pilot 190 were not that funny. It ate up almost 800 feet to get rid of them. Even on the 210 it was much more challenging than on a student canopy.

So, time to leave that thread and let the big boy give the answers.

[DivingWombat 0]

I dislocated my should under a Navigator 220 on AFF L2 - by your reasoning that is not a suitable student canopy.

Depending on your weight, a 220 is not a suitable student canopy on AFF L2. But I guess you know that already.

[mattjw916 2]

The point you are trying to make is lost on me.

There are a ton of variables in choosing a canopy. Size of the pilot, experience level, age, athletic ability/fitness, manufacturer's recommendations, etc, etc...

You can't just arbitrarily say "No one should _ever_ fly 'canopy X' in size Y at jump #Z". That just doesn't make sense on any level.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[normiss 622]

I entirely disagree with you opinion on Stilletos and XF's.

Your reaction to line twists is incorrect, PLEASE discuss line twists with a reputable instructor on your home DZ ASAP.

When you get a line twist that pins your chin to your chest, let me know how the waiting game works out for you.

Again, I don't yet think you have ample experience to give advice such as this.
You have much to learn.

[DivingWombat 0]

???
Common sense is not common.

You don't agree on my posts and I don't agree on some posts in this thread.

Don't take my posts as advice. That was never the target. It is my personal belief based on my personal experience.

Youngsters in the sport with low jump numbers should stay away from posting at all because anything will be taken as wrong (and there will always be a way to misunderstand things).

Don't wonder when you see more and more guys not filling out their entire profile or filling in wrong jump numbers.

And yes, that waiting game with my chin pinned down to my chest worked very well on a Manta 288.
But maybe it wouldn't work on a Sabre2 170. Maybe, just maybe (maybe because I don't have the ample experience you know) this is a reason why it's more advisable to jump big ass canopies on the first 30-50 jumps.

[DocPop 1]

DivingWombat

Youngsters in the sport with low jump numbers should stay away from posting at all because anything will be taken as wrong (and there will always be a way to misunderstand things).

Inexperienced jumpers should primarily be trying to gather information rather than give it out. Ask questions and take other people's opinions with a grain of salt on here.

I was a little too "enthusiastic" let's say, when I was in my first year or two in the sport and I got the smack-down from plenty on here.

Posting things as concrete fact is one way to almost guarantee you'll be wrong!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[wicodefly 0]

I only have 14 jumps. Obviously a total newb. I don't even know what manufacturer makes the rig that I've jumped. I know I'm supposed to take the "red" mediums that are, I believe 260s. I weight about 185 at 5.10 and am pretty athletic.

Anyway, due to some stability issues that I'm working through (getting a little better and planning some wind tunnel time), I've had three line twists on this larger canopies.

The first one was on my very first AFF (I already had a tandem before it).

It was scary, I looked up and for about a second or two it was all I could focus on. Then the training kicked in and I checked altitude, and tried to untwist twice at no avail. I was stable, canopy looked okay losing altitude slowly.

I checked altitude again and I was about about 3,500 - 3,800 feet or so (I had pulled at like 4,500 which wasn't great) actually put my hand on the cutaway and looked at my reserve handle, but I was falling slowly so I gave it one more try and got out of it.

Felt good to get that out of the way. The second one wasn't nearly as stressful.

Anyway, just my experience as a newb.

Chance favors the prepared mind.