Trump

[JerryBaumchen 1,263]

39 minutes ago, johnhking1 said:

The news casters, at FOX, and I use the term loosely, that support Trump are either nuts or are being paid a crap load of money.

Hi John,

Can I choose both for the win?

Jerry Baumchen

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

7 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Damn. Frankly I thought that was so ridiculous I never even thought about it as racist; just unhinged. Yep

Wendy P. 

It's racist AF.

"Those people" (who just happen to be black) are clearly BARBARIANS!!!!

"They" eat household pets!!!!!!

I went through something similar back in middle school (we called it "junior high" back then). The small city I grew up in (Appleton WI) was very insular. You could honestly say that there was VERY little actual discrimination, mainly because there were no minorities to discriminate against. 
There were NO African Americans in my schools. Not elementary, middle (jr high) or even high school.
The city had been a 'sundown city' back in the 60s. Not by law, but it was real.

Then, in the mid to late 70s, there was an influx of Hmong refugees (Laotian & Vietnamese). 
My mom was involved in getting them set up and settled, because the church we went to sponsored several families. 
The pushback she got for helping them from a LOT of people, both neighbors and parishoners (one of my earliest lessons in 'no hate like Christian love') was pretty intense.
And, of course, 'everyone' knew that the Vietnamese ate dogs.
So, of course, 'everyone' knew that the refugees were going around, stealing dogs to eat. And adopting all the dogs from the Humane Society...
To eat.

Really. 

Same bullshit as now, just a different minority.

[headoverheels 329]

Long time (Nixon days to present) Republican operative Karl Rove had a take on the debate, published in today's Wall Street Journal.

***

A Catastrophic Debate for Trump

Karl Rove

Tuesday’s debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump was a train wreck for him, far worse than anything Team Trump could have imagined.

Ms. Harris was often on offense, leaving Mr. Trump visibly rattled as she launched rocket after rocket at him. A New York Times analysis found she spent 46% of her time on the attack while Mr. Trump devoted 29% of his time to going after her. Debates aren’t won on defense.

Ms. Harris pressed Mr. Trump on the economy, the Ukraine war, foreign policy, healthcare, the Jan. 6 attack and especially abortion, leaving him flustered and often incoherent. In return, he criticized her on border security, climate change and the Israel-Hamas war.

Mr. Trump had to know the vice president would try to get him to lose his cool. She did. She went after him on his multiple indictments. She called him “weak” and belittled him as a six-time bankrupt, spoiled inheritor of wealth. She said his former national security adviser thought him, in her words, “dangerous and unfit” for the Oval Office.

As is frequently the case with Mr. Trump, he let his emotions get the better of him. He took the bait almost every time she put it on the hook, offering a pained smile as she did. Rather than dismissing her attacks and launching his strongest counterarguments against her, Mr. Trump got furious. As her attacks continued, his voice rose. He gripped the podium more often and more firmly. He grimaced and shook his head, at times responding with wild and fanciful rhetoric. Short, deft replies and counterpunches would have been effective. He didn’t deliver them.

Mr. Trump did a terrible job at his most important task—tying her to President Biden’s failed policies. He did an even worse job prosecuting the argument that she’s a far-left politician out of sync with America’s values. The Trump campaign’s mid-debate fact-check bulletins that flooded email inboxes were far more substantive and effective than his responses at the podium.

Mr. Trump’s failure wasn’t for a lack of material. He had plenty in the Biden-Harris administration’s record to work with, especially on inflation and the crisis at the border. In one of his strongest moments, he hit hard on the botched Afghan withdrawal. Even then, he got sucked into an argument about his administration’s negotiations with the Taliban.

There was no sustained, specific indictment of her record on almost any issue. Mr. Trump offered angry responses, pursed lips and eyes darting mostly down, seldom looking at her. And what was it with his makeup that left white circles around his eyes? This was his most important opportunity to make an impression of strength and relative stability.

Both candidates made significant misstatements. Ms. Harris said her opponent “left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression” and Mr. Trump declared inflation under Biden-Harris “probably the worst in our nation’s history.” But his false statements far outnumbered hers by my count.

Mr. Trump had a great comeback to Ms. Harris’s agenda for change. She’s had 3½ years as vice president, he said, so “why hasn’t she done it?” But that was in his closing statement. It should have been the attack he started with, continually repeated, and closed with, undercutting every new policy proposal she offered.

It matters how debating candidates carry themselves. There, it was no contest. Ms. Harris came across as calm, confident, strong and focused on the future. Mr. Trump came across as hot, angry and fixated on the past, especially his own. She mastered the split screen, projecting confidence and wordlessly undercutting him by smiling while shaking her head as he spoke.

Many undecided and swing voters will make up their minds less on any single issue than on their visceral reactions to the candidates. Ms. Harris did herself much good with that crowd Tuesday. Mr. Trump didn’t.

Even more voters wanted to learn something new and reassuring about the candidates in the debate. She provided them plenty, while he didn’t.

Trump enthusiasts will be upset that the ABC interviewers fact-checked the former president far more than they did Ms. Harris. Then again, he gave them plenty of material to work with—such as repeating the bizarre claim that Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, are eating the pets of local residents. That was probably Team Trump’s lowest moment.

Will this debate have an effect? Yes, though perhaps not as much as Team Harris hopes or as much as Team Trump might fear. But there’s no putting lipstick on this pig. Mr. Trump was crushed by a woman he previously dismissed as “dumb as a rock.” Which raises the question: What does that make him?

***

Edited September 13 by headoverheels

[tkhayes 259]

13 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Hannity went on a racist rant during his opening remarks. Was so bad the producers actually had to pull the plug on him and the feed went black. After a few minutes of that and a 2 minute commercial break Hannity came back saying he was just kidding.

[s]well thank god we can count on the right wing to double down on far right, white supremacist, neo-Nazi, pro authoritarian talking points whenever they are confronted with reality....[/s]

[headoverheels 329]

Tim Miller provides some excellent reflection and insight on Trump's January 6th comments in the debate.

Miller worked in Jeb Bush's short Presidential campaign.  Still a conservative at heart, but working against all things MAGA cult.

 

 

[kallend 1,822]

Conservative commentator George F. Will wants a Harris presidency and a GOP Senate.

I suppose that would mean any Harris nominees to SCOTUS would be ignored.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/09/12/kamala-harris-presidency-republican-senate/

[jakee 1,343]

3 hours ago, headoverheels said:

Tim Miller provides some excellent reflection and insight on Trump's January 6th comments in the debate.

It does often seem like people forget this. It’s easy to think that the worst thing about Trump is his corruption, his racism, his kowtowing to foreign dictators, his lack of any coherent economic or social policy - in essence that he’s a clown. But he genuinely attempted to overthrow American democracy. That was his absolute goal, he tried a number of ways to make it happen, and he and his party have spent the last 4 years figuring out how to do it properly next time. 
 

There’s a lot of pseudo intellectual waffle around at the moment on how all great states eventually collapse because of this tax or that public spending. I think the historically proven number one way to reliably destroy a great democracy is to elect someone who’s already told you he wants to destroy it. 

[gowlerk 2,098]

4 hours ago, tkhayes said:

[s]well thank god we can count on the right wing to double down on far right, white supremacist, neo-Nazi, pro authoritarian talking points whenever they are confronted with reality....[/s]

That is the Murdoch family's bread and butter.

[billvon 2,731]

13 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And, of course, 'everyone' knew that the Vietnamese ate dogs.

Yep.  We got a Vietnamese student in the elementary school I was in.  One of the teachers asked me to spend an hour a day with her going over vocabulary, so I did.  She was super timid because she didn't speak English at that point and couldn't communicate. 

About a week after she got there the "their family eats dogs" thing started.  Someone found out where they lived and egged their house.  Caused a bit of a rift in town; one or two incidents along the lines of "don't tell me you're a slant lover!" in local bars leading to fights.

(Of course this was only a few years after the Vietnam War ended.)

Same shit, different day.

[billvon 2,731]

Interesting trouble brewing in the Trump camp.

As many reporters have noted Melania is nowhere to be seen these days; her public appearances have become very rare.  Meanwhile, Trump has taken up with Lauren Loomer, and is seen often with this far right extremist who apparently has his ear now.  Loomer is so far gone into the Islamaphobe/white supremacist/neo-Nazi camp that Marjorie Taylor Greene, of all people, has started calling on her to leave Trump alone.  In retaliation, Loomer called Greene a "hooker" and a adulterer.  Even Lindsey Graham spoke out against her negative influence on Trump, to which Loomer replied that Graham was a faggot.

Someone get the popcorn, this is going to be good.

[JerryBaumchen 1,263]

9 hours ago, kallend said:

Conservative commentator George F. Will wants a Harris presidency and a GOP Senate.

I suppose that would mean any Harris nominees to SCOTUS would be ignored.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/09/12/kamala-harris-presidency-republican-senate/

Hi John,

For some people, this is a good balance of gov't. at the federal.

IMO it is the perfect case of how to completely stall the functions of the federal gov't.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,263]

Hi folks,

Just when you think it cannot get any crazier:  the latest iteration of a once-fringe racist conspiracy theory that has now become mainstream in the Republican Party.

Trump echoes racist conspiracy theory about noncitizens voting : NPR

Jerry Baumchen

[headoverheels 329]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

Someone get the popcorn, this is going to be good.

It's not going to be good.  Trump is using Mafia style intimidation.  Lindsey is being used as an example, because he made the mistake of saying how awful Trump did at the debate.  As transparently wrong as it is, Trump is insisting that he won the debate,. Loomer is doing the enforcing of that view on the Republicans.  A lot of Republican congressmen have secrets which could be revealed.  Putin is reported to have extensive info on a lot of US political figures, so he can help out on the intimidation.  If Trump goes down, he will burn everyone and everything on his way out.

[Phil1111 1,078]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

...Someone get the popcorn, this is going to be good.

 

6 minutes ago, headoverheels said:

....  If Trump goes down, he will burn everyone and everything on his way out.

So billvon was right except for the popcorn. It should be good bourbon or even champagne.

[ryoder 1,549]

She's baaaaackkk:

 

[nigel99 290]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-djt-stock-truth-social-no-intention-of-selling-lockup/
 

I wonder why so many idiots buy his lies? What are the odds that he sells shares within a month and blames it on Harris/Biden?

[ryoder 1,549]

24 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-djt-stock-truth-social-no-intention-of-selling-lockup/
 

I wonder why so many idiots buy his lies? What are the odds that he sells shares within a month and blames it on Harris/Biden?

Trump says he isn't going to sell?

Short it!

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

11 hours ago, headoverheels said:

...  If Trump goes down, he will burn everyone and everything on his way out.

If it burns the Republican party, in it's current form all the way to the ground, that would NOT be a 'bad thing', IMO.

FFS, Darth Cheney is voting for Biden.

 

On 9/13/2024 at 4:02 AM, tkhayes said:

[s]well thank god we can count on the right wing to double down on far right, white supremacist, neo-Nazi, pro authoritarian talking points whenever they are confronted with reality....[/s]

Fun fact: 
The "Haitians are eating dogs" garbage was started by...

Neo-Nazis.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/10/nx-s1-5107320/jd-vance-springfield-ohio-haitians-pets

This story mentions the Blood Tribe, I've seen other reports that include the Patriot Front too.

[kallend 1,822]

11 hours ago, nigel99 said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-djt-stock-truth-social-no-intention-of-selling-lockup/
 

I wonder why so many idiots buy his lies? What are the odds that he sells shares within a month and blames it on Harris/Biden?

Maybe he'll blame Hannibal Lecter.

[JerryBaumchen 1,263]

6 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

If it burns the Republican party, in it's current form all the way to the ground, that would NOT be a 'bad thing', IMO.

FFS, Darth Cheney is voting for Biden.

 

Fun fact: 
The "Haitians are eating dogs" garbage was started by...

Neo-Nazis.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/10/nx-s1-5107320/jd-vance-springfield-ohio-haitians-pets

This story mentions the Blood Tribe, I've seen other reports that include the Patriot Front too.

Hi Joe,

Re:  If it burns the Republican party, in it's current form all the way to the ground, that would NOT be a 'bad thing', IMO.

Just maybe, there is hope on the horizon:  The endorsements crystalized the remarkable evolution of the Republican Party’s establishment wing

Establishment Republicans are backing Harris for president. Will it matter? - oregonlive.com

I look forward to the day that the GOP becomes what it once was, a political party that I belonged to for 40 yrs.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[wmw999 2,313]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I look forward to the day that the GOP becomes what it once was, a political party that I belonged to for 40 yrs.

I’d say that if Darth Cheney, and other architects of the Iraq war are the establishment, it’s still a change from the 60’s and early 70’s

Wendy P. 

[kallend 1,822]

Spoke to someone today (older white male) who truly believes Trump is telling the truth.

Otherwise he seemed quite sane.

[JerryBaumchen 1,263]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Spoke to someone today (older white male) who truly believes Trump is telling the truth.

Otherwise he seemed quite sane.

Hi John,

Show the (older white male) my Post #446.

Something about:  The Truth Shall Set You Free

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,564]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

Spoke to someone today (older white male) who truly believes Trump is telling the truth.

Otherwise he seemed quite sane.

That's the problem. They don't always dribble spittle, pick out their nose hairs in distraction, or tell you about the time they were abducted, but in every case they absolutely identify with their captor and empathize with their abusers goals. Oh, and they vote.

[nigel99 290]

6 hours ago, kallend said:

Spoke to someone today (older white male) who truly believes Trump is telling the truth.

Otherwise he seemed quite sane.

For a long time I have questioned the level of American patriotism and how healthy it was. From the outside it always came across as conceited and misguided. Add the 2nd amendment views and commitment to free speech that get portrayed to the world as ‘only Americans are free’ and it really invoked strong negative impressions, but I couldn’t put my finger on why. 

I think we are now seeing the reasons why the lack of guardrails lead to problems. Allowing hate speech as free speech, can lead to extremism that you can’t curtail. I can’t help but feel that Trump is the product of a problem and not the cause. The right wing vitriol, lies and hate are ‘legal’ and it’s treated no differently to the truth. 

I know there isn’t a simple answer to getting to balance right between suppressing views and free speech. I believe Europe and other Western countries might have the balance a bit better than the US sadly. 

Edited September 15 by nigel99