helge 0 #1 November 30, 2004 Not sure where to post this so put it here.. We have a Cessna 182 in our small club, and put about 150 hours/year on it. When the time comes for a new engine in a couple of years, what options currently exists? Does anyone have experience with the new diesel engines i've seen mentioned a few places? Our intentions are to get a higher ceiling (currently 10.000 ft) and a better climb rate. 13.000 ft in ~25+ minutes would be great, any suggestions? We are currently fitting 4 persons in it, but I've heard of wing modifications allowing the 182 to carry 5 jumpers, info, links, and prices for such a mod is greatly appreciated.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 November 30, 2004 http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/181623-1.html http://www.airplains.com/cess182.html You realise that if you -wanted- to spend the money you could probably make it a turbine -- right?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #3 November 30, 2004 I think that there are several existing threads on this topic. There is a local DZ that did the Texas Skyways 550 conversion, wing extensions, speed breaks, on an 182a. I think that they put about $80,000 in the upgrades and since have had several issues. Have had to replace several cylinders starting at about 500 hours (I think), and I have heard that there are problems with the speed breaks including cracking ect. They go to 12,000 agl (13,500 msl) with it and it does climb well to that tude, but I question the logic of putting that much capital in a 1959 182 to increase the climb rate a little. Not to mention the increased maintenance cost!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helge 0 #4 November 30, 2004 Turbine would be nice... But with 150 hours/year i do not think that is very realistic.. Thanks for the links, do you have any personal experience with any of the engines? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #5 November 30, 2004 Quote Thanks for the links, do you have any personal experience with any of the engines? Nope. I was just a poor flight instructor and while our club did have a fairly good fleet, it didn't have any aircraft that had exotic mods.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #6 November 30, 2004 Do you have any idea how deep your pockets are, and how much the club is willing do dump into your airplane?Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helge 0 #7 November 30, 2004 No, not really.. Just checking to see what alternatives are out there.. Then we'll choose from what we can afford.. Edit: skydived19006: Did not see your first reply there.. Yes 80.000$ is quite a lot to put in such a old plane (ours is a '69).. Very difficult to pick the correct amount to spend.. A bigger engine will give a quicker plane that will generate more traffic, which leads to more jumps and that may generate more profit.. Was hoping some of the smaller dz in US have been in this situation before and might have some info to share.. Or do they all just get a new plane? (Porter?) What other alternatives exists to get 4-5 jumpers to 13000 ft ASl within a reasonable time? As for simelar threads I have been searching for them, but was not able to find them.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velvetjo 0 #8 November 30, 2004 You'll definitely want to get in touch with Cessna Pilots Association. They're a great technical resource for this kind of upgrade. Costs a few bucks to join, but you'll make it back in a hurry. Also, I know that Above the Poconos in Hazleton, PA flies a nicely modified 182 that sounds a lot like what you're interested in doing. Send an email to Darlene (see website for address), she might be able to help you out. You're most likely looking for the 300 HP upgrade, wingtip extensions, and STOL kit. Micro vortex generators are another nice upgrade for 182's, they improve slow-speed handling and reduce stall speed. Check out the ads in Trade-A-Plane for more ideas and pricing. Good luck with your upgrades. Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydive2 1 #9 November 30, 2004 Check out my post here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1227149;#1227149 Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #10 November 30, 2004 My dad has a 180 that he somewhat recently put a 520 in out of a crashed plane. It has been pretty trouble free, and it was fairly cheap to begin with. If you didnt want to drop the money on a complete new motor, might be something to look at. btw, i was wondering where people go for those fold up doors, my dad sorta agreed to let me jump his plane when i get my A. thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 November 30, 2004 You might wanna get in touch with Forest McBride, last I heard he's at SD Temple flying Mean Green. Mean Green is a narrowbody 182 with (if my memory serves me) a 300hp engine, 3-blade prop, wing extensions, STOL kit, droop tips and other things. Basically its the fastest piston jumpplane 182 in the country.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMGR2 0 #12 December 1, 2004 QuoteYou might wanna get in touch with Forest McBride, last I heard he's at SD Temple flying Mean Green. Mean Green is a narrowbody 182 with (if my memory serves me) a 300hp engine, 3-blade prop, wing extensions, STOL kit, droop tips and other things. This is all true although the last time I was up there it was painted red, white and blue and he now calls it Air Force 1. I have worked in aviation for almost twenty years now and other than the DEA's turbine 206, Forrest's plane is the fastests I've seen yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kbone 0 #13 December 1, 2004 QuoteWe are currently fitting 4 persons in it, but I've heard of wing modifications allowing the 182 to carry 5 jumpers No offense but do you really want to sqeeze 5 jumpers in a Cesna 182? I can't breath in here!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 December 1, 2004 QuoteNo offense but do you really want to sqeeze 5 jumpers in a Cesna 182? Its not that bad in a wide body, but then again, a wide body climbs slower anyways...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velvetjo 0 #15 December 1, 2004 Only 5 in an upgraded widebody?!? Sounds decadent. Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helge 0 #16 December 1, 2004 Fitting 5 in our cessna will be tight, but doable.. Thanks for tons of info in this thread.. Will carefully consider all options available.. BTW, found a French company called SMA that currently is making Turbo Diesel Engines that uses A1 fuel.. http://www.smaengines.com/kitc.htm There seems to be a 300 hp edition on the drawing board.. Anyone in here flown a skylane(182) with the SMA 230hp thats currently available? 300hp A1 engine and wing extenders.. Now we're talking killer performance AND flight economics... Edit: Also found this great site for 182 upgrades: [URL]http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/skylane0012.html[/URL] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #17 December 1, 2004 QuoteAnyone in here flown a skylane(182) with the SMA 230hp thats currently available? A dutch club has one ; you'll find emailadresses in the root of their URL. My guess is they understand and speak English. From what I gather (heresay, gossip, rumours) there are 'childs-diseases'... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerrcoin 0 #18 December 1, 2004 QuoteBTW, found a French company called SMA that currently is making Turbo Diesel Engines that uses A1 fuel.. http://www.smaengines.com/kitc.htm There seems to be a 300 hp edition on the drawing board.. The diesel is a good engine but due to it's extra weight you may have to lose 1 jumper off your standard load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #19 December 1, 2004 I sent you a PM, as well.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helge 0 #20 December 1, 2004 Quote The diesel is a good engine but due to it's extra weight you may have to lose 1 jumper off your standard load. From the SMA faq page: Quote Is your engine heavier? Dry weight of the engine is 192 Kg/423 lbs and fully equipped is 221 Kg/487 lbs. So, our engine installed is heavier by approximately 40 pounds (as seen on the C-182 installation compared to an O-470). However this increased weight is compensated by the lower fuel requirement for a similar mission and the increased performance provided by the turbocharger. Note : The fully equipped weight reflects the "installed" weight of a Cessna 182Q and other installations may vary in exact weight. Looks like the 40 punds is not such a big problem as it easily can be compensated by carrying less fuel (lower consuption so same flight-time) Wrote a mail to the duch club, hope they can enlighten this furter (on their web-page it says it takes 4 jumpers to 12.000ft) helge Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #21 December 2, 2004 does anyone know where I can find info on the 182 Turbine conversion? -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #22 December 2, 2004 Quotedoes anyone know where I can find info on the 182 Turbine conversion? -Blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No. www.soly.com only lists turbine conversions for Cessna 206, 207 and 208 airplanes. I do not know how you could get a turbine 182 to pay for itself with only 4 or 5 seats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #23 December 2, 2004 QuoteI do not know how you could get a turbine 182 to pay for itself with only 4 or 5 seats. If you run the numbers, the cost of the 300 hp, the 3 bladed prop, the flap gap seals, aleron seals, STOL kit, wing extensions, etc...its hard to get that plane to pay for its self. Its a LOT of money.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #24 December 2, 2004 Upgrading the engine is really only cost-effective when you are already paying out mega-bucks for an engine overhaul. Few airplane owners install bigger engines except when their old engine is worn out/time-expired. As for STOL kits, wing tip extensions, etc. I remember a conversation with Van Pray Senior, extolling the virtues of the Sportsman STOL kit installed on his Cessna 206. Van believed that the flap gap seals easily paid for themselves during their first year. By minimizing leakage between the high pressure area under the wing into the low pressure area on top, they increase rate of climb a bit. Van also said that STOL kits only help rate of climb if they increase wing area. There are two ways to increase wing area. The Sportsman STOL kit increases wing area by extending the leading edge another 4-6 inches forward. The Sportsman STOL kit seems to help the most on Cessna 206s. It may only increase rate of climb by 50 feet per minute, but that extra 50 fpm adds up by the end of the year. The other way to increase wing area is to install extended wing tips (Flint Aero or those guys from Quebec). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerrcoin 0 #25 December 2, 2004 Interesting, I hadn't considered the lower onboard fuel requirements. We were considering the diesel for our 182 but decided against it on weight. Seems that we can now reconsider it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
