What's with these USPA rules? Are they really necessary?

[ChrisD 0]

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Are there ways to get around any of this stuff?

When yo ask a question like that, you tell us something about yourself. And your telling us that you are a liar and a thief. A liar in that you mention that an AFF class has prepared you for every skydiving eventuality and that you alone with this knowledge, have just disgraced every skydiver that has come before you.

A thief, in that you pretend to ask legitimate questions, and you steal our time and efforts to promote safety and fun. With no intention of following any rules. You stand there purporting to express your viewpoint, while pretending to hear us. You are the Wolf in sheep's clothing and we are the huntsman who see you for what you are....

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Appreciate the responses, and I can assure you, you are not "feeding a troll", my questions/opinions are all legit.

Well here is a "legit" answere for ya:


You come here, contribute nothing, basically piss in the backyard with how wonderful YOU are and walk away....

The narcissus section is on another site.

We want to live and we don't want your kind affecting our sport. Your irresponsible attitude and conduct will enevitably effect other well meaning people who do the best they can at following the rules so that the publicity people like yo generate doesn't shut down skydiving.


C


You are in fact your own awnswere to why there are rules....

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[billvon 2,396]

>Why on earth would a DZ make such a big deal and require a license for that?

I know! It's not like a camera has ever contributed to an incident, injury or fatality.

>Those are simple skills, that do not get lost fast. Do I really stand alone on this?
>Doesn't anybody even partially agree the level of currency guideline is way overblown?

Definitely man. I mean, it's skydiving. We're all born knowing how to fall. What could go wrong?

>And yes, I do ride dirt bikes / mx, don't race competitively.

Well, that's silly. If you ride, why not just enter top level races? It's not like it's rocket science.

>I actually do want to base jump, but considering the increased danger . . .

Danger? You jump off and pull your string. What could go wrong? You definitely have all the skills to be a safe BASE jumper.

>I really would
>only plan to do it maybe 5-10 times in my life and be done. Want to stick more to
>skydiving.

So how would those two be different?

[chemist 0]

mx_maniac

Well. I appreciate all the responses. I realize I was simply overlooking the obvious. That like so many other things in life, the rules are set up for the "weakest links" aka biggest morons. Which ruins it for others who do not need such rudimentary treatment. I sort of had it in my head that skydivers in general were smarter than the general public, that the sport attracted sharper minded people, but realistically I realize now they simply are the general public.

I read through the long list of small form camera incidents, and can basically sum it up like this. Practically half of them were people who could not even figure out how to use their camera or figure out if it was on, and in the confusion forgot the most basic gear checks like helmet, chest strap. If someone can't even figure out how to use the simplest of cameras, I don't think they can be a competent skydiver. Others somehow were so distracted by the camera, they seemingly lost track of where they even were in relation to the ground. The camera rule SHOULD NOT apply to me. I've been using helmet cams in a wide variety of sports since before these gopros even existed, I know exactly what I'm doing. But the rule is set up to cater to all the morons who cannot handle such a basic task. I know others have "thought" they wouldn't be influenced by the camera, but I can "guarantee" I am not. I have way too many years of videography experience, and way too many hours with a helmet cam.

Same with being current. Everybody is different. Everybody keeps or looses skill at different rates. I've seen someone "current" overshoot the landing zone by like 500 feet and land on the asphalt runway, for no reason than she didn't seem to posess good distance judgement skills. There SHOULD be tolerances for the jumper to assess their own abilities, not some one size fits all rule. I guess a lot of people probably can't judge their own abilities well either. So once again, its the weakest links dragging others down. I could name tons of examples how, "currency" is not a measure of competence, but here is one. When I was learning to unicycle, I got on every day, I learned how to be decent, and could go down the street and back. Well a friend came over and said she used to perform on stage on a unicycle as a kid, she hopped on and, even after 10 years off, performed better than I did, even though she was 10 years out of currency, and I was riding every day. I bet in general there may be a lot of skydivers who are "current", simply because they have the time and money to be, yet don't have that great of critical thinking skills or physical coordination, who are not as safe or capable as others who may not be current.

You all probably assume by my posts I'm some reckless guy with disregard for safety, but that is not the case at all. In all the sports I'm involved in, I actually take safety even more serious than most. I do a lot of potentially dangerous hobbies, and work a dangerous career, yet have an excellent track record for safety. I'm all about gear checks, jumper etequitte, knowing your limit, and other actual safety rules etc. Its just these dumb rules I don't like. A coach jump does not make me any more safe than a solo jump, if anything I'm less safe, with my focus going on running through his routine, gestures, etc is a distraction, rather than solo where I have much greater overall awareness of everything in the jump. Also, re-demonstrating 360 turns does not make me safer. I did 360 turns perfect the first time I ever tried, I have never not been able to do one, so there is absolutely no point to re-demonstrate them, just a waste of $100 extra dollars on top of the jump fee, and taking the fun out of the jump.

Guess I just have to fit in and deal with rudimentary treatment that the few weakest links may need, causing everyone to be subjected to it. Have to do my skydives in small groups, rather than singles. Appreciate the responses, and I can assure you, you are not "feeding a troll", my questions/opinions are all legit.

I can't believe you still think you're right. EVERYBODY on here with much more experience is telling you otherwise. This isn't riding a fucking unicycle, give it the respect it deserves. It's one thing to be new and ignorant, but to remain ignorant after everybody tells you otherwise is reckless.

[davelepka 4]

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The camera rule SHOULD NOT apply to me.

Everybody keeps or looses skill at different rates.

I'm all about gear checks, jumper etequitte, knowing your limit

How do you know the camera rule should not apply to you? What experience do you have SKYDIVING with a camera to show that?

How do you know the rate that you personally keep or lose SKYDIVING skill?

How do you know what your SKYDIVING limits are?

The answer to all of the above is that you don't. You assume that you know, but it's unreasonable for you to expect others to count on your assumptions when it comes to their own personal safety or the health/existence of their business. Other jumpers have to share the sky with you, and the DZ is put at risk anytime there is an incident involving injury or death.

Again, think about any of your other hobbies, and imagine how you would feel if the newest of new guys started complaining about established rules and methods that have worked well for years, claiming that he was 'above' them and should not be subjected to them.

You are the newest of new guys in skydiving. You have 15 jumps total, and I made 18 jumps last weekend, 21 the weekend before, and plan to do about the same this weekend. Of your 15 jumps, at least 7 were made under the direct supervision of an instructor, and based on your complaints, the majority of the other 8 have been made under the supervision of a coach. When it comes to solo, unsupervised jumps, what do you have? Four? Maybe five?

You are in no position to be calling the shots.

[Ron 7]

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The camera rule SHOULD NOT apply to me. I've been using helmet cams in a wide variety of sports since before these gopros even existed, I know exactly what I'm doing. But the rule is set up to cater to all the morons who cannot handle such a basic task. I know others have "thought" they wouldn't be influenced by the camera, but I can "guarantee" I am not

How many of the people that died skydiving do you think thought they were NOT good enough?

As for currency.... Your unicycle example is cute, but not applicable. See that girl that took a 10 year layoff is like me taking a 10 year layoff form skydiving. I have 6k+ jumps nationals medals.... Blah, blah.

But we are not talking about a person who was at the top of the game, we are talking about a guy with 15 jumps over 5 years.... Not 6k over 20 years.

So.... How would YOU perform on that unicycle if you only did it twice a year for 1 minute? I'd bet you would not perform very well. And THAT is the example.

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Also, re-demonstrating 360 turns does not make me safer. I did 360 turns perfect the first time I ever tried

If you did 'perfect' 360's your first attempt we should talk about putting you on a team so you can use those mad skills. But most likely, your definition of 'perfect' and mine do not jive.

I have 6k jumps... I don't turn 'perfectly'.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[grimmie 173]

Don't listen to all of these guys.

Bring your camera and jump at my DZ. I want you on my new 4 way team. We should be pretty good with your perfect 360's. Don't worry, 15 jumps in 5 years will get us a good score at nationals. Bring your homeowners policy too, just in case.

Bring your unicycle too, I always wanted to learn how to ride one of those contraptions.

[labrys 0]

grimmie

Don't listen to all of these guys.

Bring your camera and jump at my DZ. I want you on my new 4 way team. We should be pretty good with your perfect 360's. Don't worry, 15 jumps in 5 years will get us a good score at nationals. Bring your homeowners policy too, just in case.

Bring your unicycle too, I always wanted to learn how to ride one of those contraptions.

Sparks a great idea. I think that the OP should let us know where he "jumps". I'll happily pitch in to cover the extra cost of a currency jump as long as I get to see outside video of his perfect turns and stellar performance.

Owned by Remi #?

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

What could possibly go wrong?

http://www.deltagearinc.com/kit-and-tools/camera-mounts/gopro-low-pro-mount.php

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[chemist 0]

Maybe my above post was a little harsh. The fact that OP decided not to jump a camera is a good sign, even though it's for the wrong reasons.

Once he starts jumping more he'll have a few moments where he'll realize "that's why you don't jump a camera!"

[3mpire 0]

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A coach jump does not make me any more safe than a solo jump, if anything I'm less safe, with my focus going on running through his routine, gestures, etc is a distraction, rather than solo where I have much greater overall awareness of everything in the jump.

I like the bit where the coach is a distraction but a camera isn't

[NWFlyer 2]

mx_maniac

I realize I was simply overlooking the obvious. That like so many other things in life, the rules are set up for the "weakest links" aka biggest morons. Which ruins it for others who do not need such rudimentary treatment. I sort of had it in my head that skydivers in general were smarter than the general public, that the sport attracted sharper minded people, but realistically I realize now they simply are the general public...


Guess I just have to fit in and deal with rudimentary treatment that the few weakest links may need, causing everyone to be subjected to it. Have to do my skydives in small groups, rather than singles. Appreciate the responses, and I can assure you, you are not "feeding a troll", my questions/opinions are all legit.

Holy shitballs I love this. You come in and state that anyone who dies or gets hurt in this sport is a "weakest link" or a "biggest moron." You disrespect the sport and everyone in it and yet expect us to respect you and your opinions?

That's rich.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[BigMikeH77 0]

You're not even a very GOOD troll.

[shropshire 0]

OP - there's a great RCMP video posted today about a CURRENT motorcyclist fucking around with a POV camera and near killing himself ... But don't worry - you have mad skilz :-(

Ignorance kills and worst case it kills others.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[labrys 0]

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OP - there's a great RCMP video posted today about a CURRENT motorcyclist fucking around with a POV camera and near killing himself

To hell with him... he almost killed a bear cub.

Owned by Remi #?

[oldwomanc6 38]

Not quite, Rich knows better.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[NWFlyer 2]

oldwomanc6

Not quite, Rich knows better.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Heatmiser 0]

BigMikeH77

You're not even a very GOOD troll.

Oh, I don't know. The OP has 4 total posts, and in those has prompted almost 6000 views and 90 responses. That's trolling at its finest there...

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[mx_maniac 0]

Just to add one little thing, because I think people are misinterpreting things I said.

I am by no means saying I know all there is to know after 15 jumps. I know that even after 1000 jumps there is a lot to learn. I'm just saying, being forced to do a coach jump if I go more than 30 days without jumping is not the best way to learn, and does not make the jump any "safer". Does anyone agree?

I'd be better off, and learn more doing another solo jump. The coach IS a distraction. Constantly making eye contact, reading his gestures, doing what he wants, etc. Makes you distracted, and much less aware of the jump as a whole. Whereas doing solo, I'm in the zone, focussed, much more aware of everything as a whole, and learn much more. Surely people have to agree with this, right?

Does nothing for safety either. I'm going to get stable and pull at a plenty high altitude whether the coach is there or not. Once I've pulled, the coach is gone, so doing a coach jump basically does nothing for safety, and is counter-productive towards my learning.

[billvon 2,396]

>Surely people have to agree with this, right?

No. But don't let that stop you.

[chemist 0]

mx_maniac

Just to add one little thing, because I think people are misinterpreting things I said.

I am by no means saying I know all there is to know after 15 jumps. I know that even after 1000 jumps there is a lot to learn. I'm just saying, being forced to do a coach jump if I go more than 30 days without jumping is not the best way to learn, and does not make the jump any "safer". Does anyone agree?

I'd be better off, and learn more doing another solo jump. The coach IS a distraction. Constantly making eye contact, reading his gestures, doing what he wants, etc. Makes you distracted, and much less aware of the jump as a whole. Whereas doing solo, I'm in the zone, focussed, much more aware of everything as a whole, and learn much more. Surely people have to agree with this, right?

Does nothing for safety either. I'm going to get stable and pull at a plenty high altitude whether the coach is there or not. Once I've pulled, the coach is gone, so doing a coach jump basically does nothing for safety, and is counter-productive towards my learning.

Following a coach's instructions during free fall is a basic task and it should not be too difficult. You find this difficult yet you claim to have mad skilz to film?!?! What are you going to do when you film 4 ways with regular fun jumpers if you can't even hang around with a coach in a controlled setting?

[champu 1]

Arvoitus

What you need to do is to start BASE jumping.

Backintothesky

Start BASE jumping.

DougH

you should switch to base jumping.

billvon

You definitely have all the skills to be a safe BASE jumper.

mx_maniac

I actually do want to base jump.

Well allow me to be the fifth to say you totally should! The gear is cheaper and there's no magazine you have to subscribe to so you can buy more gopros. And once you have a BASE rig you can start another thread complaining that DZOs won't let you jump it at their dropzones.

[wasatchrider 0]

champu

***What you need to do is to start BASE jumping.

Backintothesky

Start BASE jumping.

DougH

you should switch to base jumping.

billvon

You definitely have all the skills to be a safe BASE jumper.

mx_maniac

I actually do want to base jump.

Well allow me to be the fifth to say you totally should! The gear is cheaper and there's no magazine you have to subscribe to so you can buy more gopros. And once you have a BASE rig you can start another thread complaining that DZOs won't let you jump it at their dropzones.

I want to base jump too

BASE 1519

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

mx_maniac

I'd be better off, and learn more doing another solo jump. The coach IS a distraction. Constantly making eye contact, reading his gestures, doing what he wants, etc. Makes you distracted, and much less aware of the jump as a whole. Whereas doing solo, I'm in the zone, focussed, much more aware of everything as a whole, and learn much more. Surely people have to agree with this, right?

How many times are you going to ask this?

NOBODY is agreeing with you. Not one.

Do you have any idea how rare unanimous opinion on here is?

You really don't have a clue how little you know about this sport. I'm going to guess you aren't even scared on the plane ride up, are you?

You said that you read the "small format camera incidents" thread, and that obviously, all those people are idiots. And that you are too good and too smart to do anything like that.

Don't you think that all those people thought that too?

What in particular, what specific skydiving experience do you have to be sure that you won't do something stupid? Like all the others.

You are suffering from Dunning/Kreuger. What is known around here as "Madd Skilz." The real experts on here have seen 'you' before. And all the other "youse" that have come and gone before you. Some went in wheelchairs, some went in bodybags.

Get serious, get current or do tandems. This isn't Point Break.

Care to post where your DZ is? I'm curious if anyone on here has encountered you.

Or maybe you are a certain someone using another sockpuppet. And has changed his tactics enough that nobody recognizes you. Looking closely, the grammar, spelling and syntax are somewhat familiar.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Southern_Man 0]

champu

Well allow me to be the fifth to say you totally should! The gear is cheaper and there's no magazine you have to subscribe to so you can buy more gopros. And once you have a BASE rig you can start another thread complaining that DZOs won't let you jump it at their dropzones.

Don't have to pay for those pesky repacks every 180 days either.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[nigel99 143]

wolfriverjoe

***

I'd be better off, and learn more doing another solo jump. The coach IS a distraction. Constantly making eye contact, reading his gestures, doing what he wants, etc. Makes you distracted, and much less aware of the jump as a whole. Whereas doing solo, I'm in the zone, focussed, much more aware of everything as a whole, and learn much more. Surely people have to agree with this, right?

How many times are you going to ask this?

NOBODY is agreeing with you. Not one.

Do you have any idea how rare unanimous opinion on here is?

You really don't have a clue how little you know about this sport. I'm going to guess you aren't even scared on the plane ride up, are you?

You said that you read the "small format camera incidents" thread, and that obviously, all those people are idiots. And that you are too good and too smart to do anything like that.

Don't you think that all those people thought that too?

What in particular, what specific skydiving experience do you have to be sure that you won't do something stupid? Like all the others.

You are suffering from Dunning/Kreuger. What is known around here as "Madd Skilz." The real experts on here have seen 'you' before. And all the other "youse" that have come and gone before you. Some went in wheelchairs, some went in bodybags.

Get serious, get current or do tandems. This isn't Point Break.

Care to post where your DZ is? I'm curious if anyone on here has encountered you.

Or maybe you are a certain someone using another sockpuppet. And has changed his tactics enough that nobody recognizes you. Looking closely, the grammar, spelling and syntax are somewhat familiar.

It's a lost cause. Nobody is going to change his mind, he's going to keep fishing till he finds the answer he wants to hear.

In that light - do you have to be a USPA member to jump at Lodi?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.