What's with these USPA rules? Are they really necessary?

[Divergert 0]

mx_maniac

I am a man of many many hobbies. Skydiving is one of them.

Between my other hobbies and life obligations, I just don't have the time or money to go skydiving constantly like some people do. Ideally I'm more of a once every 6 months type of guy. So far I've been about 15 times over about 5 years, and completed AFF.

Anyways, I keep getting slapped with a bunch of stupid rules. Like...

1. My DZ always wants to me to subscribe to this stupid uspa membership, and get this worthless magazine. Waste of money, is this really needed?
2. My DZ does not want me to wear a gopro on my helmet. They claim I need a B license? Really? Is this a requirement, or is my DZ being lame? Its just a set it and forget it camera which does nothing to affect performance. In fact, you learn better when you can review your jump later.
3. When its been awhile since my last jump, they want me to do coach jumps. Another DZ claimed if it even goes 30 days past my last jump I need coach jumps, said some USPA requirement or something. Really? Not trying to sound cocky or anything, but even if its been 6-12 months, I know what I'm doing, I haven't forgotten anything. Whether its been 25 days, or 12 months, its no different.

So what's the deal? Are these sort of rules standard all over, or are my DZ's just being lame? Are there ways to get around any of this stuff?

Its spoiling the hobby for me. I just want to go for an occasional jump, and wear a gopro to film it, without dealing with a bunch of BS, extra charges, re-doing coach jumps, etc.

Shah is that you?

[obelixtim 100]

Quote

And the bowling comment, that was hilarious.

No, it was serious. Take up bowling.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[ChrisD 0]

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My skill, and knowledge does not just suddenly drop from my head after 30 days.

Well, actually it does.

C

As an example MFF EP's are required before each jump, regardless of experience.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[shropshire 0]

Their toys ... their playground.... their rules.

But to me, they make sense.

Chances are, you don't know what you don't yet know (but think that you do!). Experience is a great teacher.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[davelepka 4]

OK, so I'm guessing that you ride MX based on your screen name. How would you feel if just anyone was allowed to race alongside you in an expert class with little to no riding or racing experience?

As a racer, don't you count on the skill of your fellow racers to allow you to safely ride at 10/10ths handlebar to handlebar? Isn't that why you have amateur classes and 125cc classes, to allow guys to build their skill and experience before going all out on a 450 just inches away from you?

This is the same thing. You're not as good as you think you are, and yes you do lose skill and ability the longer you stay away from the sport. Given your minimal knowledge, it might seem to you that you lose 'nothing' over the course of a 6 or 12 month layoff, but at the same time if you were to forget one or two things, that would represent a large chunk of your overall knowledge.

Tell me that in your first MX practice of the season you're as fast or smooth as you are before your last race of the season. You know you get better the more you practice and the more frequently you ride. No difference in skydiving.

I know that when I don't jump for 4 or 5 months over the winter break, I come back rusty and need a handful of jumps to get back into the swing of things. I've been jumping for half of my life, and yes, my jumps are going to be a bit more complicated than what you're doing. but the fact remains that currency is a real factor when it comes to your performance in the air.

I can understand your frustration to a degree, but the fact is that skydiving is not an 'occasional' sport the way you want it to be. You can jump 'occasionally', but you will have to jump through the hoops that have been presented to you.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

When I grow up, I'm building a DZ. Attached to the hanger (just to the south) I'm also building a bowling alley. You are welcome to come use the bowling alley anytime.

And yes, you're thinking and attitude is "that dangerous".

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[NorrinRadd 0]

You could move to Canada! Then you wont have to deal with USPA rules!
But then again, Canada has very similar rules, and a similar governing body.. the CSPA, so you may not like it here either... Same with Britain, Australia... in fact pretty much everywhere that is in cahoots with the FAI. Weird how the whole world of skydiving pretty much seems to be in agreement about rules of safety...

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[Di0 1]

If you did read the "pointless magazine" that you get with your useless USPA membership, you would have found an interesting discussion on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

But yeah, of course that's for people who actually lack skills, I do have them so it doesn't apply to me.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[DougH 270]

So many serious replies for this troll!

Troll, you should switch to base jumping. You can crawl out from under your bridge, jump your extReeeeeeMeeee troll ass off. No rules and regulations, just eeeXXXXtttttReeeeeeMeeeeNess.

PS, in case you haven't noticed, the rules don't apply to everyone, just the people that the DZ staff doesn't like. If you wanted to jump goPros at 12 jumps, skip the AFF currency rules, you should have had a bigger chest, and wore a tighter shirt.

GOOD DAY SIR.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Di0 1]

Well, even from the dumbest premises could spring an interesting discussion that could help somebody else.
For example, the camera rule is one the rules that I hear to be disputed more often by newbies (like me, at the beginning when I first heard of it :D), although the general approach is "well, if there is a rule there is a reason that I'm missing to see right now, so whatever, they say 200 jumps? I'll wait those 185 that I still need".

Then you get interested in the sport, you ask your instructors why is that, you start reading around and you realize that, indeed, that one rule makes a huge sense.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

DougH

So many serious replies for this troll!

GOOD DAY SIR.

You're referring to my earlier "bowling" posts, aren't you?

OP... my bowling alley will have black and blue balls for guys like you. Somehow, that only seems right.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[shropshire 0]

skyjumpenfool

OP... my bowling alley will have black and blue balls for guys like you. Somehow, that only seems right.

Just make sure that they are REALLY BIG

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Baksteen 84]

At times like these, I really miss the quality that N1pple boy used to provide.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

mx_maniac

Well, I am NOT a troll. This was a serious question.

Let me ask this, does anybody "agree" with my point of view, that these rules I mentioned are stupid and excessive?

Also, what percentage of DZ's do require USPA membership? Is it common to find ones that don't? I just think its a worthless fee for a magazine that gets tossed, and extremely limited insurance. I already have better coverage under my homeowners insurance umbrella policy.

I can agree with concerns of not wanting just anybody jumping with them. However there is a huge difference between un-trained, and un-current. I am trained, I've been through AFF. Whats the big difference if my last jump was 29 days ago, or 6 months ago? My skill, and knowledge does not just suddenly drop from my head after 30 days.

I just read the SIM that someone recommended, it was helpful. I didn't see anywhere where it said a b class license is needed for helmet cams, so guessing thats just a dumb rule of my DZ.

And the bowling comment, that was hilarious.

And you got some serious answers. You are being treated as a troll because these questions you are asking have the very obvious answer: NO!!!

NOBODY agrees with you. Those rules are in place for a reason. The phrase "written in blood" is commonly used.

Many, if not most DZs in the US are USPA group members. All of them should require USPA membership. Very few (like none) of the rest will ignore currency requirements or camera reccy's for a student, especially after a long layoff.

Currency is king in this sport. Trying to ignore that fact can cause serious problems. Serious like in dead.

And read the SIM a little further. I agree that the B-license rule for cameras is dumb. USPA recommends a C License. You can nit-pick that it's a recommendation, not a rule. But that is due to the politics of the USPA board. There are a lot of arguments that it should be a rule. There's an entire forum on here dedicated to Photog and Video. Read the two "stickies" at the top. Especially the one about small format camera incidents.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Scrumpot 1]

Other than user account registration date, # of posts (just this thread) as otherwise standard indicators...

I see that this one's "Troll-Fu" is strong.
Yes, strong indeed!

Must... Resist... The... Urge...

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[DanG 1]

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I have to share an airplane, landing pattern and landing area with everyone who jumps at my DZ,...

As if this guy is landing anywhere near the DZ.

- Dan G

[Scrumpot 1]

One day, I am going to get Lepka to reply to one of my posts with such depth, breadth, consideration and vigor. Then, and only then - on here - (in this "sandbox") will I consider as I have actually accomplished anything!!

Point, game, set - MATCH to the troll.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[yoink 321]

Weak troll fu...

[billvon 2,396]

Sounds like one of those many other sports you do might be a better choice.

[Di0 1]

Anyway I think that as long as you keep downsizing as aggressively as possible to get those hook turns in as fast as you can, you should be fine. Right?

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[Cmp0806 0]

Hi mx_maniac,

Could do me a favor and post your home DZ and a picture of yourself? Oh and if you could give me a heads-up before you head out to the DZ, that would also be great. Want to make sure I'm as far from there as possible at that time...

Thanks and good luck on the bowling!

[tristansdad 0]

A million sperm and you were the quickest?

[NWFlyer 2]

You're clearly way too extreeeeeeeme for the USPA. Damn the man, trying to hold you back with yo mad skillz.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[mx_maniac 0]

Well, I am shocked at the responses, that are quite overwhelmingly opposite of my opinions. I do wonder if many of you are a little biased, based on your high frequency jumps, many may not be in touch with the casual skydiver. Nevertheless, still trying to understand why so many disagree, my opinions are simply logical, don't understand how anyone could disagree so strongly.

As far as the camera rule. Indeed, I had found that spot in Section 6-8 (E) 1 (C) that says a C license is "recommended". Nowhere does it say any license is required. If anyone thinks this camera rule makes sense, then why does it? I don't understand it. It would be one thing if someone was jumping with a big, bulky DSLR with bite switch, sight ring, etc which could be a distraction. But a tiny little gopro, where you can press record before even getting in the plane, and forget all about it. Why on earth would a DZ make such a big deal and require a license for that? I see wolfriverjoe agrees, but I'd expect 90% would agree.

As far as skill dropping after 30 days, I still think that's ridiculous. I'm involved in around 20 skill based hobbies, and challenge/skill wise, skydiving is comparatively quite easy. I'm by no means saying I'm some pro, I'm not saying I'm as good as someone who jumps a lot, but I most definitely posses the skills for a safe jump. Shouldn't have to go back and pay extra to re-demonstrate 90 and 360 turns to a coach. Sure, someone who is elite, and involved in complex maneuvers, and challenging techniques, will loose some of their fine tuned advanced skill. But for a guy like me who just wants to do an occasional jump, and is perfectly happy with a little bit of tracking, couple barrel rolls or flips, then a stable arch before pulling, I'm not going to loose much. Those are simple skills, that do not get lost fast. Do I really stand alone on this? Doesn't anybody even partially agree the level of currency guideline is way overblown?

And yes, I do ride dirt bikes / mx, don't race competitively. Sure after a long period of not riding, I'm not as good as before. Won't be hitting as big of jumps, or as gnarly of hill climbs, yet still perfectly capable of a safe ride through the woods or track. I don't need to hire a coach every time I've been off the bike for 3 months.

Also, I still don't understand why current USPA membership should be mandatory. I am already insured under an umbrella policy of my homeowners insurance, and I don't want the magazine. So what is there possibly to gain? How it it not a waste of money? Nobody has really been able to explain this?

As far as mentions for my own plane, it is not quite feasable at the moment, but something I'd love to do down the road. Me and my buddy are both getting ready for pilots lessons soon. As far as base jumping, I actually do want to base jump, but considering the increased danger, I really would only plan to do it maybe 5-10 times in my life and be done. Want to stick more to skydiving.

[oldwomanc6 38]

What's that saying about a jack of all trades? Oh, yeah! Master of None.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9