Question regarding airplane emergency

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

You are at 120 ft AGL. One of the engines of your twin otter is on fire and has shut down. Your belly tells you the plane is going down and the door is wide open. What do you do?

PS. Your pilot is not communicating with you because he is busy flying the plane.

Here is a scenario, what if you stuck your butt out the door, grabbed your reserve handle and pulled? What do you think the outcome would be?

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[airtwardo 6]

NoShitThereIWas

You are at 120 ft AGL. One of the engines of your twin otter is on fire and has shut down. Your belly tells you the plane is going down and the door is wide open. What do you do?

PS. Your pilot is not communicating with you because he is busy flying the plane.

Here is a scenario, what if you stuck your butt out the door, grabbed your reserve handle and pulled? What do you think the outcome would be?

You would foul your shit in the tail killing you and everyone else.

Please don't do that.

If I was close enough & saw someone trying that I'd sure try side kick 'em out the door, before they could get silver.


If you got one turnin' & one burnin' @120 feet strap in and hang on.

No reason a decent pilot can't land that ~ survivability is very high.


* IF you meant 1200' ~ same drill.

From there it might be possible to get an open canopy, still wouldn't do the butt in the door & pull though, coming down the tail is high - you'll make things real ugly doing that.

AND...if you go out other people may try to follow, all that will do is change the CG and screw the driver.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[linebckr83 3]

If you don't take the plane down with you, I find it incredibly hard to believe that you've have anything resembling a parachute above your head before impact from 120ft.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[Zlew 0]

1 engine on fire and shut down shouldn't be a big deal on a twotter. I'd think your odds of surviving...and even landing on the airport are high.

If both engines are toast at 120 feet, you are, IMO, still in a way better position landing in the plane than trying your luck at sub base jump altitudes on skydiving gear.

Those nice big fat high lift...short field wings should deliver you back to the ground pretty safely.

[Arvoitus 1]

Lowest I've ever gone on BASE was 132 ft with a slider down packjob and static line.

There is no way in hell I'd jump out of a plane at 120 ft with a slider up, reserve packjob.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[skycatcher68 7]

SHOOT THE HOSTAGE!

What if the Bible had been written by Stephen King?

[airtwardo 6]

skycatcher68

SHOOT THE HOSTAGE!

"Guts'll get you so far, then they'll get you killed."

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[yeyo 1]

Did you meant 1200' ?
Because at 120', holding on its the only option.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[DrDom 0]

I'm a new diver but not new to aviation and I can say if the pilot has control of the plane, I'd land with him. A single engine out is hard to fly but with a lot of trim and attention its doable in most twin turboprops. I'd rather take my chances in the plane.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[DBCOOPER 1]

NoShitThereIWas

You are at 120 ft AGL. One of the engines of your twin otter is on fire and has shut down. Your belly tells you the plane is going down and the door is wide open. What do you do?

PS. Your pilot is not communicating with you because he is busy flying the plane.

Here is a scenario, what if you stuck your butt out the door, grabbed your reserve handle and pulled? What do you think the outcome would be?

How would you know the on fire engine was shut down? When was your belly last calibrated? Why would the door be open at 120 ft? How would you communicate with the pilot if you were next to the door?
If you lived and anybody else on the plane lived they would kill you.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Kurbe105 1]

No one ever really knows what exactly they'll do unless you get put in that situation. Engine out I'm sure most everyone would stay with the plane, engine on fire... that's another story. I've seen BASE freefalls from 180' and static lines from as low as 78'. I like the idea of trying to let the inflated canopy pull you out better than trying to static line your reserve by tying the pilot chute off to a seat belt. At least you'd have a semi inflated wing over your head instead of bottom skin inflation with the slider up. Better hope you have some trees under you and be ready to thump assuming you clear the tail. All that being said it's a gamble either way. I remember an engine out in a Cessna 205 at 400' when training with Jay M in Lake Wales. The pilot landed safely in a construction lot and all 5 on board were safe. That was a single engine with a prop that was able to be feathered. If I realized the pilot couldn't feather the prop on the engine that was burning... at some point you have to make the decision if your going to fight to stay alive or do nothing and rely on hope. I have an unfair advantage because I know why you asked the question and how it turned out.

[riggerrob 558]

yeyo

Did you meant 1200' ?
Because at 120', holding on its the only option.

..................................................................................

Step One: helmets
Step Two: belts
Step Three: prayer

[dzswoop717 5]

It was a 206 and the prop does not feather. Pilot was very experienced mega hour jump pilot which contributed greatly to the out come.

[oldwomanc6 38]

At 120' you would not have a chance to do anything. You probably wouldn't even have a chance to realise that there was a problem.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I have an unfair advantage because I know why you asked the question and how it turned out.

I guess I'm not in with the in-crowd, but the cryptic bullshit wears thin pretty fast.

If you have facts, state them...playing 20 questions may work in bowling but discussions in a skydiving safety & training forum should be a little more straight forward.

Dontcathink?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Kurbe105 1]

This was an actual situation in 2005 and 6 of the eight on board died. One was paralyzed resulting in suicide a year later. The only survivor was due to her tandem instructor using his body to shield the student. His name was Robert Cook and he's a true hero! Does it change your procedure now that you know had you done nothing you would be dead?

[oldwomanc6 38]

Not saying that there is nothing to be learned from this, but what was the point of the thread?

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Kurbe105 1]

dzswoop717

It was a 206 and the prop does not feather. Pilot was very experienced mega hour jump pilot which contributed greatly to the out come.

My bad on the Cessna details. In the case of a single engine the feathering isn't really even a factor I guess. I was on the load right before that and think I remember the pilot saying that was his 5th emergency landing!
In the case of this TO situation the right engine caught fire then seized and the auto feather failed resulting in a hard yaw to the right just between V1 and V2. The aircraft flew over a heavily wooded area and never got above 120' before impact. It was a hot summer day so the door would have stayed open until 1000' and the load was extremely light with 2 tandems each with video and one solo AFF graduate. It was my home drop zone and I often think to myself "What would I have done if I was doing a hop-n-pop on that load?"

[nutellaontoast 0]

Kurbe105

This was an actual situation in 2005 and 6 of the eight on board died. One was paralyzed resulting in suicide a year later. The only survivor was due to her tandem instructor using his body to shield the student. His name was Robert Cook and he's a true hero! Does it change your procedure now that you know had you done nothing you would be dead?

If I'm remembering how I've heard this story told in the past, a contributing factor was no one was wearing seatbelts, yes?

So, there's that, too. At 120ft you should be buckled in. So, whether I think it's a good idea or not, I don't think I'd have the where-with-all to unbuckle, open the door, stick my ass out said door, and pull silver while I was in a plane with a burning engine that is less than a football field off the ground.

I'd stick with the plane. And I'd be pissed at all the people in the plane who weren't buckled in as they'd be a very likely cause of my demise upon crash.

Also, I think it's a stupid idea.

Don't let the fact that I sound like I think that I know what I'm talking about fool you. I know that I don't know what I'm talking about

[airtwardo 6]

Kurbe105

This was an actual situation in 2005 and 6 of the eight on board died. One was paralyzed resulting in suicide a year later. The only survivor was due to her tandem instructor using his body to shield the student. His name was Robert Cook and he's a true hero! Does it change your procedure now that you know had you done nothing you would be dead?

Nope....doesn't change a thing.

Do a drag out at 120' and you're odds of surviving are extremely slim.


I would have been strapped in and the door would have been closed at take off.

Do 'you' understand that those two factors would have considerably increased the odds of surviving that incident?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mr2mk1g 10]

Kurbe105

Does it change your procedure now that you know had you done nothing you would be dead others in a similar situation happened to die after a complicated chain of events played its course?

Fixed it for you.

It's still an odds game. Sadly, the odds didn't pan out for those in that 1 example. The odds still massively favour staying with the plane at 120ft, especially in an Otter with one good engine. Buckling up, keeping your helmet on, adopting a brace position and staying still all load those odds further in your favour.

Hell, at that altitude how the hell do you know exactly how high you are - the needle on your alti would only indicate a fart over zero anyway.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

especially in an Otter with one good engine

I don't think that Otter had a good engine. I think both of them were well past TBO, and the one took a shit while the other couldn't maintain min. controllable airspeed.

In any case, the OPs idea is ridiculous and dangerous. When you get in the plane, you're in there come hell or high water. There is a clearly designated chain of command and course of conduct in the case of an emergency, and for the sake of everyone else on board, you follow that regardless of what you 'think' is going to happen.

As a jumper, you can increase your odds of not finding yourself in such a situation by wearing a seatbelt and helmet through at least 1000ft, keep the door closed while anyone within 6ft of the door is wearing a seatbelt, and paying close attention to the conduct of the pilot and performance of the aircraft every time you fly, and not getting in an aircraft where either one is anything but 100% 'by the book'. (Don't know what that is? News flash, you can learn a lot on the internet, educate yourself about aviation and pilotage)

[Backintothesky 0]

Yep, in their situation it would have been a "choice" (not that they had time to make it) as to how they wished to die. Impact in plane, impact the tail or, if they missed the tail, impact at line stretch...

mr2mk1g

***Does it change your procedure now that you know had you done nothing you would be dead others in a similar situation happened to die after a complicated chain of events played its course?

Fixed it for you.

It's still an odds game. Sadly, the odds didn't pan out for those in that 1 example. The odds still massively favour staying with the plane at 120ft, especially in an Otter with one good engine. Buckling up, keeping your helmet on, adopting a brace position and staying still all load those odds further in your favour.

Hell, at that altitude how the hell do you know exactly how high you are - the needle on your alti would only indicate a fart over zero anyway.

[dzswoop717 5]

Even in a twin engine aircraft there are times when yanking the throttles to idle and landing straight ahead is the best option. Many,many skydivers have lost their lives when pilots choose to attempt to save the plane with an engine out. The west point Queen Air crash comes to mind of just one example of bad decision making by a pilot. A Twin Otter should easily fly on 1 engine with a light load but the pilot had to know it was in bad mechanical condition. Also is this the crash where the pilot did a mid field takeoff? If so another bad choice. Me, I'm tightening my seat belt and staying with the plane, 120 ft is too low to exit with skydiving gear.

[chuckakers 370]

NoShitThereIWas

You are at 120 ft AGL. One of the engines of your twin otter is on fire and has shut down. Your belly tells you the plane is going down and the door is wide open. What do you do?

PS. Your pilot is not communicating with you because he is busy flying the plane.

Here is a scenario, what if you stuck your butt out the door, grabbed your reserve handle and pulled? What do you think the outcome would be?

When you say the plane is at 120 feet, I assume you mean right after takeoff. That would mean the nose is up which would put the tail quite low. A deployment from the door would almost certainly interact with the tail.

Even if it did deploy cleanly it would be tough to time your exit so as not to get ripped through the corner of the door on your way out. And even if you lived through all that your friends would probably kill you when they got to the ground for trying to kill them.

No need to do anything under the circumstances you describe anyway. A competent pilot would be back on the ground within a minute or two, maybe less if the takeoff was on a runway long enough to put it back down without a go-around. Just keep your belt and helmet on and be ready to haul ass when the plane comes to a stop.

If the pilot isn't communicating it's probably because he/she is busy. After all, an engine just quit and the damn thing is on fire.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX