The Continent’s Consensus on Climate?……Crumbling

[JoeWeber 2,520]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

If he were stupid or a lunatic he wouldn't be such an effective troll.

If there were no fish in the sea, eager to bite, would it still be trolling? You have him blocked, good on you. Others here treat his posts like they were paying for a subscription and they simply must to reply to avoid cancellation. Some of us just consider him prime material to work on our snark. Perhaps you should block all of us, too. That, or continue enjoying the looking glass and using our posts to continue calling him a troll until you reach a million times. Maybe then we'll get it.

[SkyDekker 1,271]

On 6/15/2024 at 9:06 AM, JoeWeber said:

Others here treat his posts like they were paying for a subscription and they simply must to reply to avoid cancellation. Some of us just consider him prime material to work on our snark.

Others post due to compulsion, but I am much smarter, I always reply for a very different and much better reason. Too funny.

[brenthutch 416]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/20/electric-car-sales-tumble-across-europe-demand-germany/
 

“Sales of electric vehicles (EVs) plunged across Europe last month, fuelled by a sharp drop-off in demand in Germany.

Official figures show that sales for new EVs fell by 30pc in Germany last month, which led to a broader fall of 12.5pc across the Continent…

As well as a drop in demand across Germany, the Netherlands also reported a 12.5pc decline in new EV sales last month”.

Sharing a simple facts does not make one a Troll. If your worldview is so fragile that it cannot withstand reality you might want to adjust your thinking.

[BIGUN 1,229]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Sharing a simple facts does not make one a Troll.

Cherry picking does. Tell the whole story. Tell them about the Tariff Wars. Tell them about the European Automobile Manufacturers Association on Thursday . . . market share of fully electric cars fell from 13.8pc to 12.5pc in May. A whole 1.3 pc!!! 

Tell them about - Belgium and France were the only key markets to increase EV sales in May, growing 44.8pc and 5.4pc respectively.   

You're not making mistakes. You are intentionally being misleading and untruthful. You're back on block. Don't reply. 

[brenthutch 416]

3 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Cherry picking does. Tell the whole story. Tell them about the Tariff Wars. Tell them about the European Automobile Manufacturers Association on Thursday . . . market share of fully electric cars fell from 13.8pc to 12.5pc in May. A whole 1.3 pc!!! 

Tell them about - Belgium and France were the only key markets to increase EV sales in May, growing 44.8pc and 5.4pc respectively.   

You're not making mistakes. You are intentionally being misleading and untruthful. 

No, misleading and untruthful would be cherry picking the numbers from Belgium and France to give the illusion of a healthy EV market. The truth of the matter is that EV sales have stalled (and in some cases declined) at a time all of the big brains predicted the opposite.

[billvon 2,683]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Sharing a simple facts does not make one a Troll. 

While I agree, actually stating that you are a troll (i.e. talking about setting the hook or owning the libs) does.

[brenthutch 416]

22 minutes ago, billvon said:

While I agree, actually stating that you are a troll (i.e. talking about setting the hook or owning the libs) does.

I never said anything about “owning the libs” and the whole setting the hook thing was in response to Olof’s apparent inability to resist responding to each and every post I made. I just find it bizarre that so many on this forum think we are in an existential climate crisis and that somehow EVs, solar panels and wind turbines will prevent bad weather.

[SkyDekker 1,271]

20 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I never said anything about “owning the libs”

 

20 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I just find it bizarre that so many on this forum think we are in an existential climate crisis

 

Ohhh the fucking irony.......

[olofscience 456]

Seems I really hurt his feelings by predicting his behaviour about a year in advance...

[brenthutch 416]

44 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Seems I really hurt his feelings by predicting his behaviour about a year in advance...

See what I mean about Olof’s OCD.

[brenthutch 416]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2024/06/20/european-2030-ev-sales-targets-slashed-again-raising-ice-ban-doubt/

“If sales don’t recover, the European Union’s ban on the sale of new combustion cars by 2035 will be undermined.

High vehicle prices, unpredictable battery capacity, poor long-distance range and clunky recharging are putting EV buyers off. Private buyers are wary of unpredictable residual values, as Tesla-led price cutting has led to a debacle in the second-hand market. EVs were supposed to be cheaper to charge than combustion vehicles, but that proposition has begun to Crumble too.”
 

On what planet are the EV transition predictors living?

[billvon 2,683]

Now THIS is concerning data - it's sea surface temperatures over the past 50 years.  2023 and 2024 highlighted.

[lippy 855]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Now THIS is concerning data - it's sea surface temperatures over the past 50 years.  2023 and 2024 highlighted.

I envision that we'll see Brent coming with data from the moment he peed in the ocean as evidence that these are not the hottest it's ever been...

[JoeWeber 2,520]

3 hours ago, billvon said:

Now THIS is concerning data - it's sea surface temperatures over the past 50 years.  2023 and 2024 highlighted.

I’m sure it’s within the average range of natural deviation amongst the planets in our system over the last billion years. When you are too hot, don’t complain, take a chill pill.

[billvon 2,683]

From JAMA:

"In this systematic review of 492 observational studies, exposure to climate change–related environmental stressors like extreme temperature and hurricanes was associated with increased morbidity and mortality from cardiovascular disease, while increased risk after exposure to wildfire smoke was less certain. Older adults, individuals from racial and ethnic minoritized groups, and lower-wealth communities were disproportionately affected, while data on outcomes in low-income countries were lacking."

Needless to say, right wingers will seize on this and trumpet that hard work makes you immune to climate change risks.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/article-abstract/2820068

[brenthutch 416]

On 6/25/2024 at 1:50 PM, lippy said:

I envision that we'll see Brent coming with data from the moment he peed in the ocean as evidence that these are not the hottest it's ever been...

We will just have to wait and see if these higher ocean temperatures result in anything negative. So far no.

[wmw999 2,291]

5 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

We will just have to wait and see if these higher ocean temperatures result in anything negative. So far no.

Well, except for all that silly coral dying

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 416]

31 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Well, except for all that silly coral dying

Wendy P. 

Do you mean this?

“MELBOURNE/SYDNEY, Aug 4 (Reuters) - Two-thirds of Australia's Great Barrier Reef showed the largest amount of coral cover in 36 years”

To paraphrase the great RR, “it’s not that my lefty friends don’t know, it is just that much of what they know is simply not so”

Edited June 29 by brenthutch

[wmw999 2,291]

That was 2022. And having much of the native flora die off and be replaced with kudzu

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 416]

14 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

That was 2022. And having much of the native flora die off and be replaced with kudzu

Wendy P. 

I didn’t know that kudzu was an invasive coral. 

[billvon 2,683]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Well, except for all that silly coral dying

And what good is coral?  Why are there 314 varieties of coral?  They don't pay taxes.  They can't operate heavy machinery.  They don't even vote.  Why are all you namby-pamby liberals whining about the coral?

[JoeWeber 2,520]

15 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

We will just have to wait and see if these higher ocean temperatures result in anything negative. So far no.

You live, apparently, in a Zorb ball so no doubt the answer is no negatives, no nothing. I live on the oceans. I'm seeing a different set of data.

[billvon 2,683]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

You live, apparently, in a Zorb ball so no doubt the answer is no negatives, no nothing. I live on the oceans. I'm seeing a different set of data.

That's because you are experiencing the evils of direct experience.

In 1909, EM Forester wrote a short story about the future called "The Machine Stops."  It is a bit creepy how accurately he described the world of mass media consumers in the age of the Internet ("the Machine" in his language) where the carefully curated view of the world via the Machine is not tarnished by the perils of direct experience.  And he did this over 100 years ago.  Some quotes:

======================================

Advanced thinkers, like Vashti, had always held it foolish to visit the surface of the earth. Air-ships might be necessary, but what was the good of going out for mere curiosity and crawling along for a mile or two in a terrestrial motor?  . . .Those who still wanted to know what the earth was like had after all only to listen to some gramophone, or to look into some cinematophote. And even the lecturers acquiesced when they found that a lecture on the sea was no less stimulating when compiled out of other lectures that had already been delivered on the same subject. “Beware of first-hand experience!” exclaimed one of the most advanced of them. “First-hand ideas do not really exist. They are but the physical impressions produced by love and fear, and on this gross foundation who could erect a philosophy? Let your ideas be second-hand, and if possible tenth-hand, for then they will be far removed from that disturbing element — direct observation. Do not learn anything about this subject of mine — the French Revolution. Learn instead what I think that Enicharmon thought Urizen thought Gutch thought Ho-Yung thought Chi-Bo-Sing thought Lafcadio Hearn thought Carlyle thought Mirabeau said about the French Revolution. Through the medium of these ten great minds, the blood that was shed at Paris and the windows that were broken at Versailles will be clarified to an idea which you may employ most profitably in your daily lives. . . . And in time” — his voice rose — “there will come a generation that had got beyond facts, beyond impressions, a generation absolutely colourless, a generation 'seraphically free From taint of personality,’ which will see the French Revolution not as it happened, nor as they would like it to have happened, but as it would have happened, had it taken place in the days of the Machine.”

 . . . .

Those funny old days, when men went for change of air instead of changing the air in their rooms! And yet — she was frightened of the tunnel: she had not seen it since her last child was born. It curved — but not quite as she remembered; it was brilliant — but not quite as brilliant as a lecturer had suggested. Vashti was seized with the terrors of direct experience. She shrank back into the room, and the door closed up again.

[JoeWeber 2,520]

Just now, billvon said:

That's because you are experiencing the evils of direct experience.

In 1909, EM Forester wrote a short story about the future called "The Machine Stops."  It is a bit creepy how accurately he described the world of mass media consumers in the age of the Internet ("the Machine" in his language) where the carefully curated view of the world via the Machine is not tarnished by the perils of direct experience.  And he did this over 100 years ago.  Some quotes:

======================================

Advanced thinkers, like Vashti, had always held it foolish to visit the surface of the earth. Air-ships might be necessary, but what was the good of going out for mere curiosity and crawling along for a mile or two in a terrestrial motor?  . . .Those who still wanted to know what the earth was like had after all only to listen to some gramophone, or to look into some cinematophote. And even the lecturers acquiesced when they found that a lecture on the sea was no less stimulating when compiled out of other lectures that had already been delivered on the same subject. “Beware of first-hand experience!” exclaimed one of the most advanced of them. “First-hand ideas do not really exist. They are but the physical impressions produced by love and fear, and on this gross foundation who could erect a philosophy? Let your ideas be second-hand, and if possible tenth-hand, for then they will be far removed from that disturbing element — direct observation. Do not learn anything about this subject of mine — the French Revolution. Learn instead what I think that Enicharmon thought Urizen thought Gutch thought Ho-Yung thought Chi-Bo-Sing thought Lafcadio Hearn thought Carlyle thought Mirabeau said about the French Revolution. Through the medium of these ten great minds, the blood that was shed at Paris and the windows that were broken at Versailles will be clarified to an idea which you may employ most profitably in your daily lives. . . . And in time” — his voice rose — “there will come a generation that had got beyond facts, beyond impressions, a generation absolutely colourless, a generation 'seraphically free From taint of personality,’ which will see the French Revolution not as it happened, nor as they would like it to have happened, but as it would have happened, had it taken place in the days of the Machine.”

 . . . .

Those funny old days, when men went for change of air instead of changing the air in their rooms! And yet — she was frightened of the tunnel: she had not seen it since her last child was born. It curved — but not quite as she remembered; it was brilliant — but not quite as brilliant as a lecturer had suggested. Vashti was seized with the terrors of direct experience. She shrank back into the room, and the door closed up again.

What really cracks me up is we're Skydivers. Who better knows that the best way to know the weather isn't to read about but to get out into it. We tell newbs that all of the time when they want to know if the weather is good for jumping. Of course, getting outside of ones beloved Zorb ball and collecting real empirical data that supports, or refutes, ones thesis can be mighty scary. 

[brenthutch 416]

8 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

You live, apparently, in a Zorb ball so no doubt the answer is no negatives, no nothing. I live on the oceans. I'm seeing a different set of data.

em·pir·i·cal

/imˈpirək(ə)l/

adjective

 

1. based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.