Major reserve hesitation

[skydiverek 54]

Quote

Don't exit low....

C

Even if the airplane's wing is gone at 1300 feet?

[airtwardo 6]

skydiverek

Quote

Don't exit low....

C

Even if the airplane's wing is gone at 1300 feet?

If the wing is gone I doubt you COULD exit...they tend to spin pretty fast.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[ChrisD 0]

skydiverek

Quote

Don't exit low....

C

Even if the airplane's wing is gone at 1300 feet?

Do you know Ron?

Now that you have given me nightmares, ...

If ever I will be pulling my reserve close to the ground, it will not be my choice, and I also know that my container has a relatively loose reserve cause I picked my latest rig based upon reserve size first, and then my container was picked so that the reserve is in fact, loose as well. The goldilocks rule. I also changed my reserve pin to a curved pin, because the skyhook can pull in any direction and this helps me sleep at night despite what some others think about that,....Chances are if your flying' causes the wing to flap off, I'll be lucky to get the door open in time..... but you will find my "cold dead hands" grippin my pud.
C

Sombaody tell me that this reserve was overstuffed???

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Liemberg 0]

Quote

If the wing is gone I doubt you COULD exit...they tend to spin pretty fast.

Well, there's recent video evidence that would suggest otherwise, at least not all of them spin that fast...
(Not saying of course that leaving a spinning aircraft has a reputation to be as easy as leaving one that is flying straight...)

And though it is generally not such a good idea to postpone opening your last parachute, on that occasion the guy who also did that lived to tell the tale on national television.

But once you HAVE pulled a ripcord it IS nice to have an openingshock in a reasonable amount of time (say at "thousandthree") and not have some extra seconds to observe a bridle flapping around - what I see in this not so clear video is definetly longer than what I would expect from a good reserve system...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Well, there's recent video evidence that would suggest otherwise, at least not all of them spin that fast...

That wasn't from 1300'

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[riggerrob 558]

Di0

***
In comparison to the Modern rigs of today it was just so wide open with nothing stiff or heavy in the way.

Lee

What time frame are we talking about here when you say "modern" and "old"?

Sorry, but I've been in the sport for 4-5 months, so to me a 15 years old design is "old", but probably others think in a different way.

Thanks!

...................................................................

All the "older" Mirages had 2 reserve ripcord pins. None of them are compatible with Cypres ... or at least I have never seen instructions for sewing in Cypres pockets. They were sewn - during the 1980s - by the Annex, Sky Supplies, Skydive Gunter and National.
All "modern" Mirages (G3 and G4) have only 1 reserve ripcord pin and are all "Cypres-ready" from the (Mirage Systems) factory.

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Or don't jump gear that won't pass a TSO test

We have the winner!!!!!!!!!!!

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[FB1609 0]

You should carry a hook knife, it may have sorted out your problem with a lot less drama

[Divalent 89]

masterrigger1

Quote

Or don't jump gear that won't pass a TSO test

We have the winner!!!!!!!!!!!

But how do you know your rig does or does not pass a TSO test?

Anyway, here is the same jumper's 1st cutaway, which occurred a few weeks prior to this one:

http://youtu.be/kuBCPt_ZyZc

Same rig and reserve. Note that the reserve opens without any obvious hesitation. However, in this first one he delayed about 3 secs after pulling the cutaway handle, and he was on his belly or maybe even a bit head down when the reserve PC pull the canopy out of the compartment. On his second cutaway (the one linked to in the OP of this thread), he appears to be mostly in a standing upright position.

[RiggerLee 61]

Three seconds of free fall before the PC fires gives you substantially more dynamic pressure for the PC to work with. That kind of gives you an idea of the extraction force on the rig. Obveously the container opened on both jumps but towing a PC till you develop enough airspeed or being forced to take a delay to meet the min air speed for the gear to function are not very good options. I still see this as being an example of the design issues we have built into many of the rigs we have sold over the last few years. It would be interesting to know the exact model and configuration of this rig but in the end it's not really that important. I think there are a lot of rigs out there like this. The only question is what can we really do about it at this point?

I for one might be interested in an after market PC.

I would also like to see some mods made to the corners of some of the rigs. In some spots, like the bottom corners of the reserve tray, this is easy. It's a bit harder in places. Like the upper corners of the reserve tray. But I think this could help allot. And if you know how to sew it wouldn't be hard, I can do it. There are other things that need to be changed on some rigs but they are more... fundamental to the pattern set.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

But how do you know your rig does or does not pass a TSO test?

Does it have a Skyhook?


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4232218#4232218

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[riggerrob 558]

This reminds me of a seminar given during the 1993 PIA Symposium. Troy Loney talked about "Container Design from the Pilot-Chute's Perspective." His seminar was based on drop-tests with Para-Flite's EOS harness/container.

Early drop-tests provided great reserve openings if the RSL pulled the ripcord immediately after cutaway.

At the other end of the scale, they also got quick reserve openings if the test-jumper hesitated more than 5 seconds between cutting away and pulling the reserve ripcord.

Sadly, all the jumps that involved a ripcord pull between 2 and 5 seconds (after cutaway) resulted in pilot-chutes hesitating in the burble over the jumper's back. All the mid-range pulls required 5 seconds to get to line-stretch.

Production EOS containers had much stronger (reserve pilot-chute) springs.

[jurgencamps 0]

nutellaontoast

I recall reading an article not too long ago where someone packed a line-over intentionally to see if he could clear it with a hook knife. even knowing ahead of time which line was over, he found himself unable to work it out and ended up cutting away.

too lazy to find it for you. sorry.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=273641;search_string=line%20over;#273641
Posted by hooknswoop, scroll down, it is the 10th posting

[Di0 1]

Thanks all for the detailed explanation. I am indeed buying (actaully, I just bought) a G3 that is Cypres equiped, therefore with the "new" 1pin design. As for the effective conditions, well, I'll see when I get it and I go through it with a master rigger. But thanks for the info.
Just for the sake of curiosity, was the G2 a 2pin design? And what exactly does 1pin vs 2 pin mean? I want to understand these problematic better because I like to understand how gear evolved and how it works nowadays and why certain choices were made over the years.

Thank you!!!

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

what exactly does 1pin vs 2 pin mean? I want to understand these problematic better because I like to understand how gear evolved and how it works nowadays and why certain choices were made over the years.

1 Pin vs. 2 pin is referring to the number of 'pins' holding the reserve container closed.

The reason many if not most containers today utilize the 1 pin configuration is because of the smaller / tighter designs.

Years ago the reserves were considerably larger because of both materials and sqft...a 2 pin design worked better keeping the larger reserve tray secure.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[RiggerLee 61]

I think the G2 refers to the very early "modern" mirages. Remember the ones with the Velcro on the shoulders? They were actually an interesting design. They were doing some things differently in terms of their construction. I seem to recall that the reserve tray was sewn in a slightly different manner. I recall thinking that it would be more friendly for production. They were also some what wider and thinner as I recall. I'm not sure why they changed some of those things. Perhaps when they moved to tighter narrower, thicker containers they were having seam problems. As I recall they were also out sourcing there PC. I think they had a Stealth PC in there originally.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[bakerjan 0]

airtwardo

*********Hi Jim,

Quote

Sure liked my 2pin Mini-Hawk!

Based upon my own personal experience & observations during drops tests, I am convinced that a 2-pin reserve container ( all other factors being equal ) will open faster than a 1-pin reserve container will.

JerryBaumchen

Wonder what the viability of a 2 pin 'vertical' set-up would be, on the modern tapered containers...

Isnt that what a racer has?

Jan

It does...but it's a pop-top, like comparing apples & alligators.


why is that? isn't the fundamental function the same? Pull pins, reserve opens.

Jan

[airtwardo 6]

bakerjan

************Hi Jim,

Quote

Sure liked my 2pin Mini-Hawk!

Based upon my own personal experience & observations during drops tests, I am convinced that a 2-pin reserve container ( all other factors being equal ) will open faster than a 1-pin reserve container will.

JerryBaumchen

Wonder what the viability of a 2 pin 'vertical' set-up would be, on the modern tapered containers...

Isnt that what a racer has?

Jan

It does...but it's a pop-top, like comparing apples & alligators.


why is that? isn't the fundamental function the same? Pull pins, reserve opens.

Jan

'Basic' fundamentally perhaps, but that's an extreme oversimplification.

That's like saying all parachutes are alike because they 'slow the fall'...there is a lot more to it.

When the pilot chute is outside of the pack tray it doesn't have to push the flaps clear of itself prior to inflation...it's faster - period.

...and IIRC - Racer did use a one pin reserve for a while but it created a harder pull than the 2 pin configuration & didn't hold the pot-top as symmetrically as the 2 pin.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[nigel99 143]

That's why Teardrops are great - poptop and 1 pin
Only real downside to a teardrop is the dumb fucks with their snide comments about 90's gear and the very real snag hazard of the poptop itself...

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[RiggerLee 61]

The reflex crw mod did help with that and if it's packed right it should almost recess and set down tight. I will say this the two pin design of the racer does reduce the snag hazard of the pop top on the bottom side of the cap where the lines might come up on deployment.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[DHemer 0]

Jumped an older tear drop for the first time this weekend, first time jumping a rig without RSL or an AAD. I figured that if all goes wrong and I pull silver at least the reserve is coming out quickly :p

[bakerjan 0]

airtwardo

***************Hi Jim,

Quote

Sure liked my 2pin Mini-Hawk!

Based upon my own personal experience & observations during drops tests, I am convinced that a 2-pin reserve container ( all other factors being equal ) will open faster than a 1-pin reserve container will.

JerryBaumchen

Wonder what the viability of a 2 pin 'vertical' set-up would be, on the modern tapered containers...

Isnt that what a racer has?

Jan

It does...but it's a pop-top, like comparing apples & alligators.


why is that? isn't the fundamental function the same? Pull pins, reserve opens.

Jan

'Basic' fundamentally perhaps, but that's an extreme oversimplification.

That's like saying all parachutes are alike because they 'slow the fall'...there is a lot more to it.

When the pilot chute is outside of the pack tray it doesn't have to push the flaps clear of itself prior to inflation...it's faster - period.

...and IIRC - Racer did use a one pin reserve for a while but it created a harder pull than the 2 pin configuration & didn't hold the pot-top as symmetrically as the 2 pin.

so I'm wondering why all reserves don't have a pop top if it's so much faster and more sure. Every rig has a 3 ring that is licensed from bill boothe, why not license the pop top from whoever made that?

Jan

[nigel99 143]

The reason every rig is not a poptop, is because everything has a tradeoff. But a large part is fashion, people more than ever before are choosing skydiving rigs, not based on performance, but brand and appearance.

Just go through the first few pages of gear and rigging to see how many people want to squeeze x reserve or main into Y container! Never mind all those highly loaded reserves out there. Safety third...

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[airtwardo 6]

bakerjan

******************Hi Jim,

Quote

Sure liked my 2pin Mini-Hawk!

Based upon my own personal experience & observations during drops tests, I am convinced that a 2-pin reserve container ( all other factors being equal ) will open faster than a 1-pin reserve container will.

JerryBaumchen

Wonder what the viability of a 2 pin 'vertical' set-up would be, on the modern tapered containers...

Isnt that what a racer has?

Jan

It does...but it's a pop-top, like comparing apples & alligators.


why is that? isn't the fundamental function the same? Pull pins, reserve opens.

Jan

'Basic' fundamentally perhaps, but that's an extreme oversimplification.

That's like saying all parachutes are alike because they 'slow the fall'...there is a lot more to it.

When the pilot chute is outside of the pack tray it doesn't have to push the flaps clear of itself prior to inflation...it's faster - period.

...and IIRC - Racer did use a one pin reserve for a while but it created a harder pull than the 2 pin configuration & didn't hold the pot-top as symmetrically as the 2 pin.

so I'm wondering why all reserves don't have a pop top if it's so much faster and more sure. Every rig has a 3 ring that is licensed from bill boothe, why not license the pop top from whoever made that?

Jan


For the same reason not ALL cars, firetrucks & women are Red...variety is the spice. ~ ~ Even IF the alternative isn't quite as GOOD!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[RiggerLee 61]

The honest answer is that although it's potentially superior in performance no body wants to do it. Why? Do you realize what kind of convoluted, monkey fucking a football, Roul Goldburg, bull shit you have to go through to pack one of those things? And yes I know all the fucking secrets. I'm the one that gets all that shit dumped on him because no one else wants to deal with it.

This is the truth. They can be somewhat more difficult but the main thing is that they take a slightly different skill set and they can take more time. People don't want to deal with it. Some flat out wont deal with it. And some people like me who can do it get pissed about having it all dumped on them because no one else wants to learn to do it.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com