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fictionwriter

Help a fiction writer with a skydiving scene

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Good afternoon Skydivers!

I'm a fiction writer in NYC doing research for a possible scene that features a dive. I've never done it myself (though I'm hoping to try it in the spring) and wouldn't want to be careless with accuracy.

Would any of you mind answering a couple of questions? I'd rather do this via email, so private replies would be appreciated.

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It will be much more fun if you post your questions here in the open.

If you get private replies you'll have no idea of their accuracy or validity. But in the open, if someone posts BS, others will chime in and make corrections. That will give you the best shot at the truth for your book.

So let us have 'em!

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piisfish

yes, just like Boogers wrote.
Post the questions here, you will get all the replies you need.

And don't listen to ChrisD



:D:D:D
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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I think we will be all happy to answer questions. You may get a few folks on here asking for a mention on the foreword, or maybe some consulting fees. ;)

In addition to asking your questions why don't you give us some context.

What is the context of the skydiving scene? What do you expect to accomplish with it? Is the character development, or does it move the plot along?

I'm kind of curious how it is going to be used in the book.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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You're all right, of course. Well, here's the scene. Questions to follow.

My protagonist is a 27-year-old counterintelligence officer on his first field mission abroad. He's no James Bond-type; he just happens to be a skilled skydiver trying to make a name for himself. In fact, he's a sophomore agent who's done mostly desk work thus far.

The scene opens on a quickly darkening sky, possibly in Hong Kong, the eastern shore far beneath as our protagonist zooms undetected aboard a small plane.

For reasons that will be explained in the story, he needs access to an apartment atop a fancy high-rise but can't get to it from the ground floor (security, cameras, etc.).

The main question is about the possibility of him diving from such a plane and land on a balcony far up, enter apartment and base-jump his way to a nearby boat off-shore.

This is supposed to be a calming experience for the character (in fact, this is the last time he'll have any peace before all hell breaks loose) so he needs to be experienced enough to not be worried about the jump itself.

Here are some questions:

1. How specifically skilled must this character be to accomplish such a stunt? How many years of training? What kind of a financial burden to get to the level?

2. What kind of plane could be used for something like this? How high up must it be flying? How long of a jump would it be from that altitude?

3. What floor must this apartment be so he can base-jump out (remember he can't go downstairs)? Is there a mechanism through which he could carry two parachutes? Could he simply carry one on his back and one on his front?

4. What would his base-jump be like? How long?

5. What time of day would allow for this character to jump down with enough light to see accurately and yet dark enough to conceal his presence?

—————

Thank you so much for your thoughts! I can't wait to read some responses.

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I'll wade in...I'm sure other jumpers with a ton more experience will chime in shortly and can get much more granular, but I'll get the ball rolling as this sounds fun.

Skydive onto building and BASE jump from building has been done (felix baumgartner comes to mind). I can't find the video of that one, but here's a skydive with a building landing. Note the 7 cell canopy...these are ideal for accuracy landings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3Iq3dR3Vk

1. Not as experienced as you might think. The typical recommendation is 200 skydives before attempting a BASE jump. If you are talking about landing on top of a building as opposed to a very small balcony there are many skydivers that could accomplish that task, but not that many would be willing. If someone wanted to train specifically for this type jump they could do it in less than a year and with less than $50K.

2. Any number of jump planes could be used from a single engine Cessna to a twin engine turbo prop. Location of the tail is important. If the tail is low the jumper could hit it on exit. Any altitude could work from 2K feet to 15K feet plus. Above 15K feet oxygen is required.

3. A building a 20+ stories would be required. In theory, the jumper could skydive his main canopy and BASE jump his reserve canopy (modern parachute systems come with two canopies). Or he could jump with a BASE rig and a belly mount reserve and use the belly mount reserve for the skydive portion.

4. It depends on how tall the object is. BASE jumps from buildings tend to have short free fall times (less than 4 seconds) and short canopy flights (less than 10 seconds).

5. Most building BASE jumps are done in the middle of the night. Generally, there is enough light to see where to land.

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fictionwriter

You're all right, of course. Well, here's the scene. Questions to follow.

My protagonist is a 27-year-old counterintelligence officer on his first field mission abroad. He's no James Bond-type; he just happens to be a skilled skydiver trying to make a name for himself. In fact, he's a sophomore agent who's done mostly desk work thus far.

The scene opens on a quickly darkening sky, possibly in Hong Kong, the eastern shore far beneath as our protagonist zooms undetected aboard a small plane.

For reasons that will be explained in the story, he needs access to an apartment atop a fancy high-rise but can't get to it from the ground floor (security, cameras, etc.).

The main question is about the possibility of him diving from such a plane and land on a balcony far up, enter apartment and base-jump his way to a nearby boat off-shore.

This is supposed to be a calming experience for the character (in fact, this is the last time he'll have any peace before all hell breaks loose) so he needs to be experienced enough to not be worried about the jump itself.

Here are some questions:

1. How specifically skilled must this character be to accomplish such a stunt? How many years of training? What kind of a financial burden to get to the level?

2. What kind of plane could be used for something like this? How high up must it be flying? How long of a jump would it be from that altitude?

3. What floor must this apartment be so he can base-jump out (remember he can't go downstairs)? Is there a mechanism through which he could carry two parachutes? Could he simply carry one on his back and one on his front?

4. What would his base-jump be like? How long?

5. What time of day would allow for this character to jump down with enough light to see accurately and yet dark enough to conceal his presence?

—————

Thank you so much for your thoughts! I can't wait to read some responses.




Without getting into all the technical aspects ~

Could the type of jump you describe for your character be made?
Yes, without question...given the proper circumstances.

To made it believable the only real thing to be concerned about is height of the balcony above the ground. He not only needs enough altitude to get the parachute open...but also enough to fly it to the 'getaway' means.

I would direct you to the scene in the Bond film where James jumps from the Eiffel Tower...in the following sequence we see the canopy flying a considerable distance across Paris before landing IIRC on a boat.

In reality, even if Mr. Bond had an open canopy at the very top of the tower he wouldn't have enough altitude to make it even 1/2 to the street...much less the river.

That scene while interesting had 'those in the know' rolling their eyes.

In the movie Terminal Velocity - Ditch Brodie makes a similar sequence of jumps as far as landing on top of a building...snatching the microfilm and B.A.S.E. jumping off - landing nearby in the parking lot & speeding away in his car.

In the movie Dropzone...the bad guys land several operatives on a building top at night...including a tandem.

So...technically speaking, what you are describing is well within the working skillset of a fair number of top notch civilian skydivers.

I don't know just how far you want to wander from the plot point...but some attention might be given to the character somehow describing the specific intricacies of the 'specialized' gear he personally fabricated in regard to the needs of the mission...an accurate main for the balcony landing and a flat flying no slider - hand deployed B.A.S.E. canopy as the secondary...for example. That aspect could be stretched or compressed depending on how much you've established the character up to this point.

Something like that - written correctly - would not only make the stunt itself more believable to the average sod farmer, but would also go far establishing the agents 'credibility' as a top level skydiver to your audience.


Heck...when Angelina Jolie B.A.S.E. jumped a wingsuit off some building to getaway from the bad guys - she flew about 10 miles it seemed.
But with HER looks...the law of gravity doesn't really apply & the audience knows that! ;)

As far as aircraft requirements go...the possibilities are many - from a Piper Cub to a Boeing 727...but why not use a stealthy little helicopter? Black R-44 would be a nice platform.

Some small amount of dramatic tension could be build into the sequence as the hero communicates to the pilot the precise spot and altitude over the city they need to hover in order to successfully perform the said pinpoint landing.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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My. This is interesting. I can't wait to see some of the responses. You would do well to ignore anything ChrisD says.

1 - Landing on a balcony would be difficult. A specific balcony extremely difficult. A rooftop, however, would be quite possible. Some people on here have done it. Your character would need to get in the building from the roof (access is normally locked) but it's not impossible.

2 - Any "normal" jump place could be used. If he's coming any sort of distance, a King Air, Otter, PAC 750 or Caravan would make sense. If it's not too far and he's trying to keep a lower profile or on a smaller ops budget, a C-182 or C-206 could be used. A simple search will give you all the info you need on these. They aren't all that common in the Hong Kong area though, not equipped for jump ops, but there are a good number of planes that can be operated with the door removed. Look up FAA Advisory Circular (AC) 105 for the list. Having something like "We didn't have a real jump plane available, so we took the door off (insert plane type here) and just put up with the wind on the ride over" wouldn't be unrealistic.

3 - Jump altitude could be anywhere from 3000ft up to 14000ft. These are normal exit altitudes for sport jumping. Any higher requires oxygen. He could open anywhere from immediately at full altitude or freefall down to about 3000 or so. Free fall is 10 sec for the first 1000', 5 sec for each 1000' after that (rough calculation).If Air Traffic Control is directing the plane, and he can't get directly over his target, he could open higher and fly the canopy a fairly long way. We call those "Cross Country" flights.

4 - He could probably carry a second BASE rig in a "Drop Bag." It's a duffle bag that is attached by a line to the jumper, it's released under canopy and hits the ground just before landing/ It's a tool used by military paratroops. It would make more sense for him to have a second complete rig, unless he has a big room and a lot of time to work with. In that case, he could simply repack his original rig and jump that. He would pack it differently (no D-bag, slider down) than for the freefall jump, but if he chose a canopy appropriate for landing on a rooftop, then he could probably get away with it for the BASE part.

5 - Minimum height would be about 250' or so (20+ floors). BUT- the lower the building, the closer he will land to it. If he goes out the 20th floor, he will most likely land right next to the building. For him to make it to a boat off shore, he will need to be higher. I'm going to presume the building is located right on the shoreline. It pretty much would have to be.

6 - Skills needed are pretty high, but not outrageous. A few hundred normal skydives and a few dozen BASE jumps. This could take as little as a few months or a couple years. Cost somewhere less than $10k. BUT - He would still be worried about this jump, no matter how skilled or experienced. This is a special jump, lots of stuff could go wrong. The old "If you aren't scared, you have no clue what you are about to do" would apply here.

7 - Last but not least. BASE jumpers normally go off the buildings that they aren't supposed to be in at night. They often DO get spotted. Even in the middle of the night. Search out the Trump Tower jump in Chicago to see what I mean.

I hope this helps. If you need more, or explanation of what is here, then please ask.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Another option is to so the skydive with his regular main canopy, then discard it in the building.
For the BASE jump, he could simply tie his (regular skydiving) reserve bridle around the balcony railing and leap off. Deployed in this configuration, the reserve would inflate in 2 or 3 seconds, allowing an exit from as low as 175 feet. From 175 feet, his canopy ride would last less than 10 seconds, too short for most observers to ask "What the??????"
Jumping into a dark alley would help as well as having a boring coloured canopy. The latest colour - of urban camouflage - is called "wolf." It is a boring shade of grey that "averages" background colours downtown.

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a couple of precisions/corrections to what has been written above :
Felix jumps on/from building VIDEO and a cool escape on a slow speedboat :S:S:D:D

In the James Bond movie, it is not James Bond jumping but Mayday, the actual distance to the Seine is around 100m, but to the Alexandre III bridge it is around 1200m which would be long for a parachute, even with a STRONG wind

balcony landings do happen B|B|

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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riggerrob

Another option is to so the skydive with his regular main canopy, then discard it in the building.
For the BASE jump, he could simply tie his (regular skydiving) reserve bridle around the balcony railing and leap off. Deployed in this configuration, the reserve would inflate in 2 or 3 seconds, allowing an exit from as low as 175 feet. From 175 feet, his canopy ride would last less than 10 seconds, too short for most observers to ask "What the??????"


This is the scenario I was thinking of too. You could have the character specifically using a rig with a larger main, more docile handling and reserve canopy than he usually jumps, just because of the accuracy and landing requirements.

Rooftop landing? Very plausible, been done plenty. Balcony landing? It better be a big penthouse style balcony with no roof or floor above it. Make sure your jumper checks the winds and has planned his direction of approach accordingly. Realize that if his main malfunctions and he has to use and land his reserve on the balcony (always a possibility) his plan B would be to ground launch or TARD off the balcony, definitely sketchy.

Depending on your choice of jump planes (based on an earlier poster's description of mission requirements and world wide availability), we can tell you the most likely way to exit, what preparations need to be made and what the sensations and altitudes would be.

Some of the details would be having your guy doing his "checks of three on jumprun, checking each of his three handles in order [main deployment, main cutaway and reserve deployment handles], checking the 3 harness connections, 2 leg straps and the chest strap, and inspecting the harness 3-rings one last time before exiting." Moving carefully in the aircraft, protecting his handles, in order to not snag a ripcord handle in the dark. One last glance at the altimeter before exit too, if he's getting out low, mentally noting how many seconds of freefall he's planning. These are details that all jumpers will recognize.

After you write you scene, any one of us would be glad to read it to spot any obvious gaffes. :)

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Quote

In the James Bond movie, it is not James Bond jumping but Mayday, the actual distance to the Seine is around 100m, but to the Alexandre III bridge it is around 1200m which would be long for a parachute, even with a STRONG wind



Hey piis...when ya get to be MY age specifics aren't that critical - It's not what did I have for breakfast this morning...it's more like, ~ ~ I can't remember, did I eat today!? :P










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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ManagingPrime

Or he could jump with a BASE rig and a belly mount reserve and use the belly mount reserve for the skydive portion.
.

ChrisD is that you ?? :D:D yay land a round on a balcony. Serious spotting skills :o
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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As has been mentioned by some of the others, this scenario is doable but it would take a very experienced jumper with a wide range of skills.

I would suggest you write a rough draft of the scene with just the basics included. Contact an old grey beard from a local DZ and ask him/her to proof read it for you. When you get the technical aspects of the skydiving portion in order you can fill in the story line around that.

Sparky

Here are a couple of DZ’s in your area.

http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Detailed/18.shtml

http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Detailed/720.shtml
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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piisfish

***Or he could jump with a BASE rig and a belly mount reserve and use the belly mount reserve for the skydive portion.
.

ChrisD is that you ?? :D:D yay land a round on a balcony. Serious spotting skills :o

I think he was talking about having the belly mount to make it legal and then repack. you skydivers and your rules...
I would just jump the base rig out of the plane and then repack or do a rollover off the building.
BASE 1519

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Remember, its fiction. Action fiction at that. Everyone is trying to give you literal advice of what is actually possible. You’re the writer, create the reality.

Here’s my set up.

Your action figure is on a small fast parachute (think Ferrari sports car), swings past the balcony and observes from above, sees the glass doors are open, grabs a front riser and spins a 720 building speed, straightens out at the correct altitude above the balcony and heads directly into the open glass doors. As his chute tangles onto the balcony above and everything else he cuts his main and tumbles into the room. Later he gathers up the chute, reconnects it to his rig, throws the mess off in front of him (see the attached video) and BASES’s off the balcony.

It doesn’t need to be exact. It should be plausible and most of all it should be thrilling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe8OOD9uAOk

watch at 1:00, 1:30,3:00 & 3:26. I suggest the 3:26 method.
Oh, and enjoy the rest of the vid too.

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wasatchrider


I would just jump the base rig out of the plane and then repack...



This.

To keep it believable and understandable for non jumpers.
BASE rig out of a small chopper at 2k, rooftop landing, repack, apartment stuff, jump off balcony.

Sketchy Andy landing in a rooftop pool at night http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eNdStLwoak8#t=150

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I would jump from an open cockpit Steerman, pulling an advertising banner, right at dusk, and use a canopy packed in the reserve tray first. A rooftop landing would be followed by rappelling to the balcony, and not to forget to help myself to a beer out of the fridge. Then over the balcony railing for a short freefall and open the main canopy, a quick canopy ride with landing in the middle of a crowded street and hop in a cab (watch the Carl Boenish films from Houston to get the real idea). To do this takes more calculation than worry, 1000 jumps is a good number to have, and remember, it’s fiction so embellish.

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Relatively plausible story line. Could be done by a suitably experienced jumper and hell, this is fiction; even I could be expected to do it (probably 9.5 times out of 10 I'd die but I might just pull it off... which is what good fiction's about right?).

Note that what you're proposing isn't exactly 100% never been done before - not that this should stop you.

See the movie Terminal Velocity where Charlie Sheen jumps into a compound (landing in a chimney IIRC) recovers something and then base jumps off the roof using his reserve.

Also film Cutaway where Tom Berenger and Steven Baldwin jump onto a large open balcony area, deliver drugs and then base jump off the side on their reserves.

(think I have those references right - it's been a while)

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wasatchrider

******Or he could jump with a BASE rig and a belly mount reserve and use the belly mount reserve for the skydive portion.
.

ChrisD is that you ?? :D:D yay land a round on a balcony. Serious spotting skills :o

I think he was talking about having the belly mount to make it legal and then repack. you skydivers and your rules...
I would just jump the base rig out of the plane and then repack or do a rollover off the building.

This. for sure.
You jump the BASE rig to the roof, pack it on the roof before the mission begins and before you are discovered and then jump off the roof with the same canopy.

I would recommend that the jump altitude would be as high as possible. Not that I have ever done this (honestly I haven't...there is no video of it so it didn't happen) but:
1) the roof has to be tall enough for a novie jumper to BASE jump from.
2) so it's a city that is large enough to have a tall building
3) Also a large building with a "secret McGuffin" worthy of an agent skydiving and BASE jumping to get to it would have some minimal security
4) Someone would hear the helicopter/plane unless you are high enough above the city to not be heard/seen
5) the novice jumper is taking off from a different location than the landing zone so he does not know the ground winds, how the LZ is lit obstacles...etc
6) You have to plan the infiltration not just to be successful but also covert. A secret ex-filtration is sometimes harder.

So for a night infiltration of a "soft" target by air you would need a proficient pilot with a jumper skilled in spotting the landing area and wind (make sure there are convenient wind indicators on the roof like a flag pole or a neighboring roof has a helicopter pad with a wind sock) and do all this at night with night vision? (you would be surprised but experienced demonstration jumpers have landed on the wrong football stadium because they missed the spot)
About the BASE jump: don't forget to plan the landing. Your hero is jumping off the roof of an alerted target building and needs a clear flight path and landing area. Your agent is not skilled enough for fancy plans. Where is he landing? who is pursuing? Will he ditch the gear or have to quickly bunch up the rig and run with it?
It might be easier to have him remain undetected until he is safely on the ground...

Last thought: If your hero needs specialized gear for blowing up a safe or guns and ammo or cutting locks or taking pictures, planting covert bugs or medical supplies for "the hostage" he needs to carry it and it can't be in a backpack. Belly mount or leg mount bags are the way to go for big bulky stuff but they can decrease mobility.

I have more thoughts on this but there are others much more qualified . And consider that everything I or anyone says here can be lies/mistakes/trolling and so on. Except twardo' he actually knows what he is talking about
There are no dangerous dives
Only dangerous divers

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Well, someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but Accuracy parachutists land on a target only a couple of inches big right? Looking out at my balcony, I see more ground to land on that that, and it's one of those micro jullienned type balconies...

My question is could the guy do what he needed to do and base jump off a high enough balcony with his main canopy by just starting it hanging off the balcony (we can pretend it's one of those buildings with an overhang penthouse balcony or something...) with a roll over similar to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHQuvHVFgEU

?

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