I have a question

[airtwardo 6]

~ Sometimes I gotta wonder if it's not a 'conspiracy' of sorts created to bolster the bottom line for manufactures!

I have several rigs exactly the same regarding make, model, options, colors & manufacturer...one is 3 years old and one over 12 - I'd like to put them all in a row and have some n00b tell me they'd jump this one over that one because less that 5 years old somehow means it's safer.

Heck back when I started we all learned on surplus gear that was sewn together at least 10 years before our parents made US! ~

~ These daze they tell you if the reserves have been packed too many times, ya gotta sPend it in for a check-up.

...So Mr. Parachute maker, what yer sayin' then is with all the improvements today in regard to method & materials in manufacturing - the shit we had 40 years ago was BETTER?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[labrys 0]

didn't expect an answer....

Owned by Remi #?

[DrDom 0]

labrys

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We seem to have a problem of discerning "Borrowed Gear" and "Used Gear".

"we"?

Please explain the difference to "us" between jumping borrowed gear for a weekend and jumping new or used gear for the first time on a weekend.

I think I explained it in my post in regard to borrowed vs used. "we" i meant in this post there was a lot of crossover. borrowing implies short term use and used gear implies a purchase. Its a semantic argument and I was trying to sort out that we were talking about the difference between "should I buy used gear/what is the danger" and "going in on borrowed gear". Remember this is someone new asking a question NOT an experienced jumper (at least that his how you framed your question of "why do we recommend new gear"). Maybe with more experience there is less risk with borrowed gear (I'll leave that to people with more experience), but I think newer jumpers borrowing equipment carries more risk is all since the implication of borrowed includes people who have not trained on the gear (not always the case, a generality)

I was not meant to be insulting so if you're offended my apologies but there is no reason to be offended, I was trying to offer something helpful since borrowed and used ARE two different things.

As for canopies, I meant in terms of "hours" on the canopies, they are apparently fine (I'm no rigger) if they are stored, compared to hours on a rig which doesn't matter as much if I've been instructed correctly. I know my paragliders get a lot of UV damage in the sun and often are not really good after a few seasons but the rest of my gear is... pretty much good to go despite that.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[DrDom 0]

NWFlyer

***

I asked once about buying new gear (cost is not an issue) versus used and someone pointed out that there were people jumping gear made 1-2 decades ago (not the canopies of course) with no issues.

Why do you say "not the canopies"? My boyfriend is a huge fan of "closet queen" Sabres, especially for wingsuiting. People have mixed opinions on the original Sabre, but for those who love 'em, they can't get enough of them, and a ZP canopy well-maintained, something from the 90s is perfectly jumpable. There's other canopies that are still being made today - if you found one from the 90s in good shape - why wouldn't you jump it vs. one that was manufactured more recently. Same canopy same design, though (horrors) you might have to deal with the colors that were trendy back then (news flash, though - neon may be ugly, but it makes you really awesomely visible in the air!).

ps- I love those old colours... I think NEON needs to make a comeback. I like buying gliders in the most obnoxious colours to everyone in the sky can see me. I'm a slow target for a pilot not paying attention or another glider.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[labrys 0]

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I was not meant to be insulting so if you're offended my apologies but there is no reason to be offended,

You're spending way too much energy on whether or not I'm offended and completely not explaining the difference between jumping borrowed gear for a weekend vs the first weekend jumping *new gear*

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

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~ Sometimes I gotta wonder if it's not a 'conspiracy' of sorts created to bolster the bottom line for manufactures

Say it aint so

Owned by Remi #?

[DrDom 0]

labrys

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I was not meant to be insulting so if you're offended my apologies but there is no reason to be offended,

You're spending way too much energy on whether or not I'm offended and completely not explaining the difference between jumping borrowed gear for a weekend vs the first weekend jumping *new gear*

There is no short term difference, its a difference of ownership.
I see your point and am not disagreeing with it, I just think if someone buys used gear its not a bad thing if they become familiar with it. When I think of "borrowing" something, I foresee "Hey, I need a rig, can I borrow yours for this jump?" and jumping on the plane and going. I haven't been around long and I HAVE actually heard that conversation.

I think used gear is good because it saves new jumpers money (I'm looking at used gear, its a bonus if it has an antique neon canopy!) but I'm not always keen on borrowed gear unless people really take the time to learn it. I think there was a Skydive Radio discussion with Germaine recently on this that I enjoyed.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[labrys 0]

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I think used gear is good because it saves new jumpers money (I'm looking at used gear, its a bonus if it has an antique neon canopy!) but I'm not always keen on borrowed gear unless people really take the time to learn it. I think there was a Skydive Radio discussion with Germaine recently on this that I enjoyed.

I really do agree. Honest. I just think that "we" spend way too much effort on suggesting that kids make sure that they're getting what they pay for rather than making sure that they get shit that fits.

Owned by Remi #?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

labrys

I really do agree. Honest. I just think that "we" spend way too much effort on suggesting that kids make sure that they're getting what they pay for rather than making sure that they get shit that fits.

Maybe, but fitting well enough to be safe, versus fitting better and being more comfortable, versus fitting perfectly is a pretty wide range.
Student gear often fits "ok," but not perfectly. Safe, but not terribly comfortable.

My first rig was/is a little big on me. The yoke is probably one size too big and the MLW are probably an inch or two too long. Even not fitting perfectly, it's still far, far more comfortable than the student gear I used (which fit a lot worse, but was still safe).

My current rig was built for me, and the harness fits perfectly. It's nice to have a fit that is that good, but that doesn't mean that my first rig, or the student gear that I jumped before that wasn't safe, even though it wasn't a perfect fit.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DrDom 0]

labrys

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I think used gear is good because it saves new jumpers money (I'm looking at used gear, its a bonus if it has an antique neon canopy!) but I'm not always keen on borrowed gear unless people really take the time to learn it. I think there was a Skydive Radio discussion with Germaine recently on this that I enjoyed.

I really do agree. Honest. I just think that "we" spend way too much effort on suggesting that kids make sure that they're getting what they pay for rather than making sure that they get shit that fits.

you provide a very reasonable opinion that I do not disagree with. I want shit that fits.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[mattjw916 2]

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but I'm not always keen on borrowed gear unless people really take the time to learn it

Um, what's to learn? Sport rigs are fairly standard now and all come with 3 handles, 2 of which deploy a parachute. Handle types vary a bit but are always in the same place when you need them and you should be looking for them before you pull on them anyway.

Really who cares who "owns" the rig? Generally speaking I'd feel safer jumping a friend's rig than rental gear from a typical DZ. Plus if you're a student, all gear is borrowed gear... it's not like they are doing any special checks on it... it gets repacked as fast as humanly possible and thrown on the rack for the next person typically.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[NWFlyer 2]

wolfriverjoe

My current rig was built for me, and the harness fits perfectly. It's nice to have a fit that is that good, but that doesn't mean that my first rig, or the student gear that I jumped before that wasn't safe, even though it wasn't a perfect fit.

This. My first rig fit me fine (the only change I made was to have a longer chest strap put on because it was built for a guy and the girls needed a little more breathing room). I jumped it for 7 years and it's now my backup rig. Till I got one built for me, I don't think I knew how comfortable a rig could be! But the rig is perfectly safe - all handles easily reachable, everything cinched down safely, etc.

I tell people my custom-fit rig with all the comfort "bells & whistles" is like leaning back into a barcalounger when I open. My older rig is like sitting on a church pew. Both are perfectly safe but boy do I prefer one over the other (but I'm not complaining - having two rigs is an amazing luxury and I've enjoyed it for the 2 years that I've had that setup!).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[nigel99 143]

Remster

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Maybe the reason you don't hear much conversation about proper fit is because that's a given.

That's my take/assumption too.

It's a false assumption sadly. About 6 months ago I saw a video of a guy on an angles jump with the top half of his rig halfway down his arms/off his shoulders. I brought it to his and the CIs attention, and he immediately started looking for a new rig. But what shocked me most was someone else saying it was 'normal' and they saw it all the time.

I think you get away with poorer fit when belly flying, but still not recommended.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.