bigway 4 #1 July 13, 2005 I am wondering if skydivers think it is a big deal if you do not have oxygen in a plane going to 15,000 feet? I dont mind it personally if the plane is a fast plane, i know the aviation authority's would think it is a big deal but do skydivers? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxyroxtail 0 #2 July 13, 2005 MSL or AGL? ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #3 July 13, 2005 ASL sorry, what is MSL? above sea level? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #4 July 13, 2005 MSL=mean sea level ASL=above sea level AGL=above ground level 15,000ft ASL does not require oxygen in the US. Only above 15k. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #5 July 13, 2005 in new zealand, it is over 10k for half an hour or above 13k .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxyroxtail 0 #6 July 13, 2005 QuoteMSL=mean sea level ASL=above sea level AGL=above ground level 15,000ft ASL does not require oxygen in the US. Only above 15k. Now 15000 AGL from some DZ's would be a major deal . ASL - no prob. Many sunset and special loads often go to 14.5 and 15 in the "lowlands". ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #7 July 13, 2005 Quote15,000ft ASL does not require oxygen in the US. Only above 15k. Not exactly, the pilot is supposed to use oxygen at any point above 14K ASL, but the passengers don't need it until 15K. In response to the question, I feel comfortable going to 17K without oxygen, as I have done physiological training in an altitude chamber, but I become extra cautious looking for signs in other people, as few people know what their specific symptoms will be. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #8 July 13, 2005 Hypoxia is a silent killer, and it doesn't really affect any two people the same. There is the same percentage of O2 at 15,000msl, as there is at sea level. The difference is that there's not as much atmosperic pressure at that altitude. The pressure is what drives that O2 into your blood stream. Supplementle O2 is good up to 18,000MSL. After that you really need a pressurized breathing apparatus, to help deliver the O2 to your brain. Some common symptoms of hypoxia are light headedness, loss of color vision, nausia, euphoria, loss of fine motor skills, dizzynes, loss of logical thinking, and passing out. Death resulted from hypoxia usually is resulted from loss of consciousness, and crashing the plane or parachute or whatever. It is a good idea to know your symptoms, and watch out for them, as they can really sneak up on you. The symptoms are not onset from one particular cause, as you can become hypoxic a lot easier and a lot sooner if you are dehydrated (after a good night of drinking), out of shape (fat), under a lot of stress (jumping a new canopy, trying franticly to remember the dive flow at exit time). You can help yourself, by calming down, taking some deep breaths, getting supplemental O2, and trying to relax. Recognizing your symptons of hypoxia is half the battle. Becarefull out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 July 13, 2005 QuoteI am wondering if skydivers think it is a big deal if you do not have oxygen in a plane going to 15,000 feet? I dont mind it personally if the plane is a fast plane, i know the aviation authority's would think it is a big deal but do skydivers? single jump - no big deal. But after a day of it, there is definitely more fatigue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcneill79 0 #10 July 13, 2005 QuoteNot exactly, the pilot is supposed to use oxygen at any point above 14K ASL, but the passengers don't need it until 15KThanks for pointing that out... I was just about to. For me personally I will jump 15K easily w/o Oxygen and not have a problem, but I won't go any higher without it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #11 July 13, 2005 QuoteThere is the same percentage of O2 at 15,000msl, as there is at sea level. The difference is that there's not as much atmosperic pressure at that altitude. The pressure is what drives that O2 into your blood stream. Hence, HALOs are NOT just another skydive. I think all skydivers should do a session in the chamber. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #12 July 13, 2005 The chamber is the shit. I've been twice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #13 July 14, 2005 QuoteI will jump 15K easily w/o Oxygen and not have a problem Sure, that's what you think, it's something we all think when we're hypoxic I've been to 22k w/o supplemental O2 on the ride up FWIW. Not smart but you couldn't convince me of this at the time. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #14 July 14, 2005 QuoteThe chamber is the shit. I've been twice. My first time I thought the idea was to see how long you could go without passing out! Meanwhile, my buddies were coping with the after-effects of their Mexican lunch at the O club. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #15 July 14, 2005 I've posted a bunch about this in another thread, but basically: I used to have no problems going to 14,000-14,500 MSL regularly, but 16,000-17,000 MSL without O2 (as happens in some boogies) sometimes gives me trouble. Lately I've noticed occasional hypoxia above 10,000 during the dive. Breathing in specific patterns (deep and slow) helps, as does seating location (having to crouch causes me to have problems.) If I use supplemental O2 I never have problems, exiting between 16,500 and 26,000 feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #16 July 14, 2005 QuoteIf I use supplemental O2 I never have problems Ditto. I've never used a cannula however. Your comments re observable effects, cheapo facemask vice booger kebob, are welcome and will be appreciated, a separate post on this comparison might be helpful. .02 Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #17 July 14, 2005 Quotebut the passengers don't need it until 15K. Legally the passengers have to be provided oxygen, it's their choice to use it or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #18 July 14, 2005 Not long off student staus I used to watch my jumpsuit change colour slightly, atbove 12K, I knew it was early onset of hypoxia, and just contralled my breathing. I'm pretty certain it was brought on through anxiety. (I'm an overly cautios kinda guys somtimes)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxyroxtail 0 #19 July 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf I use supplemental O2 I never have problems Ditto. I've never used a cannula however. Your comments re observable effects, cheapo facemask vice booger kebob, are welcome and will be appreciated, a separate post on this comparison might be helpful. .02 When I jump with my frap hat, I use the nose canula, and it works great. It's easy to slide off at climb-out, and the frap hat is perfectly comfortable on the ride to altitude. With my full face, I cinch it down and close the face shield and stick the O2 tube inside. It basically makes a full-face mask of the deal, and also works great and is equally easy at climb-out. I've not noticed any difference in efficacy - I've been happily oxygenated both of these ways. The full-face, however, seems better for preventing - or at least delaying - the dry-throat and sinus irritation caused by the dry O2 air. Since that can be very helpful at multi-day events, I've started using that as my default set-up. ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #20 July 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteI am wondering if skydivers think it is a big deal if you do not have oxygen in a plane going to 15,000 feet? I dont mind it personally if the plane is a fast plane, i know the aviation authority's would think it is a big deal but do skydivers? single jump - no big deal. But after a day of it, there is definitely more fatigue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have heard the same thing from a - physically fit - young pilot who installed supplemental O2 in his private plane to make him more comfortable cruising all day at 10,000'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #21 July 14, 2005 I was definitely hypoxic jumping from 19,000' (fast-climbing Dornier 228). I also got hypoxic when ATC held our Twin Otter at 12,500' for 45 minutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #22 July 14, 2005 British rules, taken from the BPA Ops manual are as below: Quote Section 8 - Parachuting Limitations 5. MAXIMUM ALTITUDE 5.1. Normal parachuting will not take place above 12,000 ft . 5.2. Parachuting will only take place between 12,000 and 15,000ft without oxygen provided that :- 5.2.1. The aircraft when loaded with parachutists can sustain at least 1,000ft per minute rate of climb between 10,000 and 15,000ft. 5.2.2. No parachuting ‘lift’ exposes parachutists to altitude above 12,000ft for more than six minutes. 5.2.3. The PLA height above mean sea level does not exceed 500ft. 5.3. Members who wish to parachute above 15,000ft will need STC and CAA approval and must submit their plans and details of their equipment in advance (via a CCI). Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #23 July 14, 2005 QuoteBritish rules, taken from the BPA Ops manual are as below: Members who wish to parachute above 15,000ft will need STC and CAA approval and must submit their plans and details of their equipment in advance (via a CCI). Vicki No wonder they say that BPA means "Ban Parachuting Association"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #24 July 14, 2005 >a separate post on this comparison might be helpful Check out an earlier thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1518902;search_string=oxygen%20saturation;#1518902 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #25 July 15, 2005 QuoteVicki -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No wonder they say that BPA means "Ban Parachuting Association" Who are "they"? And why is it any different from SIM Section 6-7 G1?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites