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kllrbee

Question about disciplines

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Hello all
I posted about a weekago with some newbie questions about gear and cost, etc......thnx very much for all your input.
Since then i have been trying to read up more on the sport. Since its soooo frickin cold here lately thats about all i could do. I did stop into the DZ last saturday (they are still open weekends in offseason) and spoke with them for a lil bit. He explained the way they do their school, how to stay current, and some other basic stuff that prospective students probly ask about.
Anyways....I never realized that skydiving had so many disciplines. Actually never even knew it was a sport....lol. Always thought u just jump out and enjoy the ride.
So that got me thinking....what discipline would i be interested in?
Relative work? I dont think so.....this might sound kinda weird but i enjoy doing most activities alone. Mountain biking, working out, kayak fishing, backpacking....always enjoy more by myself.....just kind of a loner I guess.
Freeflying? From what ive read....seems like one needs to be very very experienced and have plenty of disposable income for a coach or tunnel time....i have neither...
Freestyle?...nah
Swooping? not sure but probly not
Crew? See above under RW
Base? Yes but isnt it illegal pretty much everywhere in the states?
Classics? Honestly...this is the one that appeals to me the most. But does anyone even do these anymore? Also...im not sure im understanding "Style" completely. Is it performing manuevers as fast as possible or "cleanly" or both? I think id like "accuracy" alot. It sounds like it would appeal to my meticulous nature. Although it doesnt seem like quite as much fun....i think i would take great pride in being able to have pinpoint control of my canopy.
So obviously the first 25 jumps are just getting your feet wet....learning the basics. I assume the next 100 at least are just doing the same....but getting better at it.
But I know the way I am....I have a hard time getting into something unless there is a goal ahead that im working towards.....like a specific discipline....u follow me?
So i guess what im asking is what was it that u all worked towards in those first 100 jumps? Or even the next couple 100?
Also...what about for people like me who would prefer to jump alone? It seems like alot of this sport is based on obtaining enough skill to jump with others at a particular skill level....is that a correct assumption?
Im sure im getting ahead of myself here...but i feel like these are valid questions even for a newb like me.
I dont want to get into a sport and spend all that time and money and it turns out its not for me.
Thnx for the help. Id really like to hear your opinions and advice whatever they may be. It will go a long way into my decision on how id like to proceed.

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My personal preferences changed a lot as I learned more and more about skydiving. I started out thinking that RW looked tedious, but I gave it a shot and discovered that I loved it.

My suggestion is that you make a goal of getting your license and becoming a competent jumper. Try some solos and see how you really feel. Try a few RW jumps... you may find that it's a hell of a lot more fun than you think it is. Spend some time in the sport and get exposed to the stuff people are doing.

If accuracy sounds appealing to you, make it a goal to become as accurate as possible on every landing starting on jump #1. That'll set you up for taking it seriously as a discipline and if you realize that the discipline doesn't really appeal as much as you thought it did, you've still practiced a valuable skill. There's never any harm in being good at landing where you want to, right?

It's fine to think about what you want to do, but there's not a lot to be gained in speculation at this point. It takes *hundreds* of jumps just to *start* getting good at something. I have almost 1000 jumps now and I've only tried to sit fly 3 or 4 times. I'm looking forward to giving it some time and effort now that I've achieved some of my RW goals.
Owned by Remi #?

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Once you start to hang out at the DZ on a regular basis, you'll discover that skydiving is a very social sport. I was more in to solo sports when I started as well. I soon learned that the social aspect of life at the DZ is what keeps most people coming back. Solo jumps will get old by the time you have your A license. RW is a way to enjoy the sport with your new friends, and work on improving skills together, rather than on your own. RW is also a great way to get mentoring from more experienced jumpers.

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Classics? Honestly...this is the one that appeals to me the most. But does anyone even do these anymore? Also...im not sure im understanding "Style" completely. Is it performing manuevers as fast as possible or "cleanly" or both?



Yes, there is a contingent that still does it, and they have a showing in the National competition each year, as well as at world meets. It's more popular in Europe than in the U.S.

Style is doing turns and backloops with both precision and speed. If your turns or loops are off-heading, then penalty time is added to your time score. It's realtively easy to be precise if you go slow, but when you combine both speed and precision, it becomes very difficult.

Accuracy canopies are either the Parafoil or the Eiff Classic. They are landed totally different from swooping, with a vertical straight-down approach over the target to maximize accuracy.

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Don't discount RW & CReW yet! They both have lots to offer even if you are a loner. CReW is hard to describe...give it a shot.

You didn't mention wing suiting or camera flying. Flying outside RW camera is not exceptionally social (but not totally solitary).

Yes Style and accuracy is alive. Accuracy without style is alive too!

Learn the basics, then try various things.
The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

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I don't know if tracking counts as a discipline but I loves me some tracking.

BASE is only illegal where it's illegal if you get caught. In these United States of America you can commit a felony and go on to be President, so long as you don't get caught (How many of the previous presidents would have been arrested for felony drug possession if they'd been caught?) Of course BASE you kind of need a ground crew which is no good if you're antisocial.

You could fly a wingsuit in a couple hundred jumps if you want to.

If you want to jump alone, jump alone. It's usually more fun with friends though. I'm happy enough jumping alone but I'll go with groups of up to 3 other skydivers if some people want to. I never have to do anything in particular though. Some days I'm happy enough just to go out and do a high pull and enjoy the scenery for 15 minutes or so.
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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The nice thing about BASE jumping is you don't need to pay anybody for training or airplane rides. You can get a T-10 military chaute surplus, tie some kite string on to replace the cutoff lines and go jumping. Cost will be about $40. A hardcore guy could combine BASE, style, RW and accuracy on every jump. I wouldn't recommend swooping though.

I didn't actually read the original post cause it was too damn long, but the general rule is those who try to plan evrything out before they have any experience end up going nowhere.

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Thnx to those of you who replied with a helpful response. Very much appreciated. I was unaware that it takes that long to focus on a discipline.
To Mike Stafford....if u arent going to help...why dont u just keep your stupid ass comments to yourself. I really hope all skydivers arent such a snooty bunch of know it alls like you.
And being prepared is not a waste of time....attention to detail is what got me thru 2 tours in Iraq so go fuck yourself asshole!

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kllrbee

Thnx to those of you who replied with a helpful response. Very much appreciated. I was unaware that it takes that long to focus on a discipline.
To Mike Stafford....if u arent going to help...why dont u just keep your stupid ass comments to yourself. I really hope all skydivers arent such a snooty bunch of know it alls like you.
And being prepared is not a waste of time....attention to detail is what got me thru 2 tours in Iraq so go fuck yourself asshole!


Ths reminds me why I like the American fighting man, he doesn't take shit from anyone! If we ever meet I owe you a jump just for your service.

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TommyM

***Thnx to those of you who replied with a helpful response. Very much appreciated. I was unaware that it takes that long to focus on a discipline.
To Mike Stafford....if u arent going to help...why dont u just keep your stupid ass comments to yourself. I really hope all skydivers arent such a snooty bunch of know it alls like you.
And being prepared is not a waste of time....attention to detail is what got me thru 2 tours in Iraq so go fuck yourself asshole!


Ths reminds me why I like the American fighting man, he doesn't take shit from anyone! If we ever meet I owe you a jump just for your service.
As someone who thinks that war in Iraq is pointless I don't own you sh*t, but I will give you advice...
Skydiving is soooo much different than what you expect it to be, I got in to the sport with a goal in mind but after some jumps I realized how freaking fun it is :) I have 136 jumps and I tried a bit of everything, I still don't have a plan what discipline I will pursue, everything is fun as hell and very chellenging. If your anti-social fuck like me, just track your ass off, even though it's more fun to jump with friends, tracking is still my number one choice if I have nobody to jump with, seeing the distance you cover and having your goggles blow off your face from the forward speed is as close to flying as it can get...before you can try a wingsuit ofcourse ;) But I bet that once you get to know some people on your dropzone you will realize how many amazing human beings you can share your experience of freefall with and you won't have to think about jumping solo. For now concentrate on getting your A license, it is worth it :)

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Thnx lukasz....
That was exactly the kind of advice i was looking for.
Btw...im not a war junkie or anything....I was just doin what i was told and tryin to stay alive.
I shouldnt have even mentioned it....I apologize for flyin off the handle like that.....just hate bein punked....haha.

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kllrbee

Thnx lukasz....
That was exactly the kind of advice i was looking for.
Btw...im not a war junkie or anything....I was just doin what i was told and tryin to stay alive.
I shouldnt have even mentioned it....I apologize for flyin off the handle like that.....just hate bein punked....haha.


No problem, enjoy and jump your ass off and we might end up having a beer after a day of jumping someday ;) The world is very small once you start skydiving ;)

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Freeflying doesn't have to be expensive. If you want to be alone it will work in your benefit while your learning as nobody wants to freefly with someone who doesn't know what they are doing. As far as learning, all you need to do is experiment and ask for advice on the ground.

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It's all fun as long as you don't get killed. Try a little of everything and see what you like. RW is more fun than you think. Think of it as precision formation flying, like the Blue Angels.

And don't feel too punked. We see people come in all gung ho all the time, then burn out and leave too soon. After a while you just want to tell 'em to slow down and enjoy themselves. I've got almost 40 years in and still going strong.

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TommyM

***Thnx to those of you who replied with a helpful response. Very much appreciated. I was unaware that it takes that long to focus on a discipline.
To Mike Stafford....if u arent going to help...why dont u just keep your stupid ass comments to yourself. I really hope all skydivers arent such a snooty bunch of know it alls like you.
And being prepared is not a waste of time....attention to detail is what got me thru 2 tours in Iraq so go fuck yourself asshole!


Ths reminds me why I like the American fighting man, he doesn't take shit from anyone! If we ever meet I owe you a jump just for your service.

Actually I and the poster who told you are putting the cart before the horse are the only ones who are offering you sensible advice, but you too blind to see that. Eveyone else is acting as your enabler and catering to your foolishness. Worrying about disciplines when you can't even fall stable is childish. BTW you aren't "being prepared". You are being stupid. And your tours in Iraq have nothing to do with skydiving, unless you got prepared for combat by worrying about which military disciplne you wanted to pursue. You are what ia called a wannabe. Do you wannabe this, wannabe that, or wannabe something else. Get to the fucking dropzone and learn to jump, and quit worrying about you wannabe.

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Sometimes the responses to newbies can be harsh, even if in your case you aren't asking any really silly questions.

I think part of the frustration people have is that newbie questions tend to be so big, things that take a lot of explanation. We've pretty much had newbies ask, "So tell me everything about skydiving equipment." Not everyone has the time to answer those questions. Some questions are best answered a bit at a time, hanging around the dropzone on a rainy day or around the camp fire.

But I figure that if I don't have the time to give a huge answer to some newbie question, I'll just ignore it; I won't go and tell the newbie that they are an idiot for asking. (Even if I'm actually rolling my eyes, "Not that question, AGAIN. Just go and jump and listen to your instructors.")

As a newbie you get told to hold your questions for later. Some things you'll learn anyway from your instructors or from other skydivers. Some questions don't need to be answered before jump 1 or jump 10.

It still isn't much fun for the newbie, to be told to stop asking so many damn questions, especially as normally it is good to be inquisitive and try to learn as much as possible in the sport.



So to answer your question.... Yeah, just get into the sport and you'll see what's available and what people are doing. Most people want to do RW of some sort, because other than just having you in the sky (or with an instructor or two), it's cool to jump with others. When you are alone, there's no reference point in the sky, so you can be sloppy and sliding around. When someone else is there, then being able to precisely move 6" in a particular direction becomes important -- new challenges and skills.

So even if your are more into working on personal skills than joining a team, jumping with others is a pretty normal way to work on your own skills, and have fun.

Then people get into freeflying. There's plenty of simple stuff you can do without being an expert. Since the discipline has had time to develop, as often happens, the real experts are so very far out ahead of the rest of us. Like many, you'll start doing the freeflying solo. Maybe you'll do a bunch of jumps just trying to hold a sitting position in the sky, before you start joining someone else on a freefly jump.

If you are doing freefly on your own and experimenting with different positions and maneuvers, you pretty much are doing freestyle. No need to wear tights though.

The formal accuracy discipline nowadays is small and requires a specialized parachute and landing target, but everyone can work on accuracy in landing whatever parachute they have. You'll need to be signed off for some simple accuracy requirements to get your licenses. (Measured in yards and not a few centimetres.)

Style is pretty dead, because it involved doing just a couple simple maneuvers (turns and backloops), that people had figured out in the 1950s, and then doing them fast and accurately. It can be a fun challenge, but people would rather explore a million other maneuvers they can do in the sky.

CRW is a bit specialized and rare. It's hard to get into a discipline if nobody local is doing it, but if there are local jumpers involved, you can easily start learning with under 50 jumps. (Although offhand I don't recall what the US rules on licences are -- Countries differ, so in one place there's something you can't do until 200 jumps, and another its 50 jumps.)

Swooping? Well, you don't have to go crazy about it because it can easily kill you. But it is pretty common that once you have gotten used to the speed of one parachute and landing it, wouldn't a smaller and faster one be more fun?

BASE? Not technically illegal, except in National Parks, and some bridges. But so often it involves trespassing on private property. So BASE does tend to involve illegality, or else traveling around the country to a few legal sites.

And there are plenty of disciplines that haven't traditionally been competition disciplines, like wingsuiting or tracking jumps.

Lots of stuff to learn out there.

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Everyone's different and everyone nerves up for that first jump in their own way. There's only so much you can tell someone about what it's going to be like, because their experience is going to be completely different, but I prefer to greet new people enthusiastically. Sure something like 98% of the tandem students I talk to and 90% of the AFF students will not complete their training and get a license, but at least they're going out there and jumping out of a plane, and that alone will forever set them apart from the people who will never know what it's like up there.

There's more than enough to keep anyone busy if you love to fly. But you really won't know if you will until you go try it. Sure, you can die, but you can die doing anything. I lost a couple of co-workers last year to household accidents. One of them was fascinated by my skydiving stores and said (As many people do) that this was something they had on their bucket list. So go do it at least once and that happens to be when you're gonna go, at least you won't have walked the earth for years with your eyes turned skyward, wondering. And if it turns out that you're a wild child of the wind, your first jump will be like coming home and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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I hope you didn’t take my post the wrong way; there was no intention to put you off. If you want to skydive just first learn the basics then you will be more aware of what you want to focus on. Some make only one or two jumps and never come back.

MikeStafford is partly right but mostly misleading. BASE only became a feasible discipline after freefall parachute gear and tactics evolved to be very consistent and precise, Mike is offbase with his gear recommendations. He is technically correct, however, about the FREEfall aspect of not having to pay for the jump.

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fastphil

I hope you didn’t take my post the wrong way; there was no intention to put you off. If you want to skydive just first learn the basics then you will be more aware of what you want to focus on. Some make only one or two jumps and never come back.

MikeStafford is partly right but mostly misleading. BASE only became a feasible discipline after freefall parachute gear and tactics evolved to be very consistent and precise, Mike is offbase with his gear recommendations. He is technically correct, however, about the FREEfall aspect of not having to pay for the jump.



Holy shit! Are you really thinking I was saying BASE jumping could be done with a T-10?:) True my post could be mostly misleading. If you read it frontwards it doesn't sense unless you use your head. Of course it wasn't meant to be taken seriously but now you've ruined it cause I had to explain that to you. Anyway it wasn't modern skydiving gear that made BASE "feasible", however dumb, except for the square parchute. It was the development of equipment specifically designed for BASE, not skydiving.

Also let's stop calling BASE a discipline of skydiving. It isn't and connecting it with skydiving is a big mistake.

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Of course it wasn't meant to be taken seriously but now you've ruined it cause I had to explain that to you.



Hi Mike~

I'm guessing fastphil got it, he was being super clear so that those without the background to understand the 'tongue in cheek' stuff yet ...don't make the wrong assumptions. ;)

You would be surprised at how often sarcasm is mistaken for instruction by n00bs.
:ph34r:










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

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Of course it wasn't meant to be taken seriously but now you've ruined it cause I had to explain that to you.



Hi Mike~

I'm guessing fastphil got it, he was being super clear so that those without the background to understand the 'tongue in cheek' stuff yet ...don't make the wrong assumptions. ;)

You would be surprised at how often sarcasm is mistaken for instruction by n00bs.
:ph34r:


If anyone, however new, would think that tying some string on something they found at the Army surplus and jumping off a tall building was instruction I won't stop them. Just let me know so I can watch. Most of the "advice" this guy is getting here is nonsense. He has zero solo jumps and 2 tandems 5 years ago, according to his other post. His other post is about buying gear and this one is about deciding on a displine to focus on. Frankly neither makes any sense to me.

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Hey all
Thnx again for the info and pm's.
I realize now that concentrating on disciplines is totally pointless right now.
I know many of u said "just go jump" and I would have started already but its been too cold here. So i just figured I would ask a few questions in the meantime.
I can also certainly understand that noob questions can be frustrating for those of u who see them all the time. I did actually try to search for an answer to my question about jumping solo but everything that came up was AFF related.
I now know that i shouldnt discount anything cuz i dont know anything yet. Gotta keep an open mind and just see where thisvtakes me.
To Mike...ill just say this and im done. Apparently we got off on the wrong foot. Its obvious that u have alot of experience and u probly get sick of the same ol questions.
But do u really have to be so sarcastic and come up with all this elaborate crap....your like a dropzone forum bully....haha. A simple "dont even bother thinking about that right now" would have sufficed. But i guess your one of those people who get off on making others look stupid. Anyways....thats all i have to say about that....done.
Thnx for all the advice everyone....its much appreciated. I guess the only thing to do now is go jump...lol.

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