Doubts about skydiving

[Varsity 0]

Hi everyone, I am a new skydiver on my level 4 AFF. I have done level 4 once already and failed because I could not stay stable and pulled very low. This has severely damaged the confidence I had in myself in skydiving and sometimes it feels like maybe skydiving just isn't for me, which sucks because I really enjoy it and want to continue. I was wondering if anyone else (experienced or not) ever had any doubts as to whether or not skydiving is the right activity for them? I watch people skydive and they make it look so easy, even some students, but I feel like I'm behind the curve. Any thoughts or advice? Much appreciated.

[billeisele 122]

normal progression, most students have some type problem, take a deep breath and relax, you're not behind-the-curve

talk to your instructors and get some training on stable freefall

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[catfishhunter 1]

If you didn't have fear and doubt it would be abnormal considering you just threw yourself out of an airplane in flight. Search the forums your not alone. I still get nervous after a layoff and it will be over a year by the time I get to make another jump so ill probably shove some coal up my ass so if nothing else Ill shit some diamonds...of this is what you want to do then tell your instructor what your feelings talking about it, at least for me takes away the power those feelings have over me. Keeping them to myself just makes them grow on intensity to the point of almost not ending able to think of anything else.

Good luck and relax what's the worse that can happen?

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I think I had to repeat about half of my AFF jumps. How you do in AFF has very little bearing on what kind of skydiver you are. If you have a vertical wind tunnel near you, you can go work on your stability in the tunnel. IIRC I did a couple of tunnel sessions before I got out of AFF and it really helped a lot.

Nothing you're going through is abnormal. Everyone has some trouble in AFF. It's also very easy to talk yourself out of it -- you look for excuses not to go. It seems like most AFF students never finish AFF -- I've seen one other guy from my ground school at the DZ, and he popped up after about a year to restart his training. But if you can power through the stress, there's no reason you can't do this. Just view every repeat as a learning experience and try not to repeat the mistakes you made in the past.

AFFs 5, 6 and 7 are pretty fun jumps where you actually get to do some more interesting things. It'd be a bummer to get through the "boring" ones and then miss out on those!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[ianyapxw 0]

You might want to consider going to the tunnel, it will help both your stability, and possibly your confidence. Even people fresh out of AFF who go to the tunnel find it a challenge staying in one spot.

Like for example, I can fly stable and in one spot in the tunnel with one hand behind my back, one hand on my helmet, both hands on my helmet, etc... just because I've worked on tunnel so much.

All the best, hope everything goes great for you! (:

[dthames 0]

varsity

Hi everyone, I am a new skydiver on my level 4 AFF. I have done level 4 once already and failed because I could not stay stable and pulled very low. This has severely damaged the confidence I had in myself in skydiving and sometimes it feels like maybe skydiving just isn't for me, which sucks because I really enjoy it and want to continue. I was wondering if anyone else (experienced or not) ever had any doubts as to whether or not skydiving is the right activity for them? I watch people skydive and they make it look so easy, even some students, but I feel like I'm behind the curve. Any thoughts or advice? Much appreciated.

I had stability problems at first that I really felt like I could not overcome because I knew it was because I could not arch enough to be naturally stable. This led to problems being released long enough to learn. I took a break not knowing if I would be back or not. This was during the winter, so was really a perfect time. Twice a day I worked on stretching. After 10 weeks or so, the weather was better and I went back and requested SL/IAD training with the thought that I could learn the old slow way. Several things had changed, flexibility, determination, and type of training, so I am not sure what really tipped the scales. But I stayed after it because that is what I wanted. Only a few don't have to work at it.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[Croc 0]

You don't need to have sky-god skills to enjoy jumping. I have well below average skills but I still have a great time jumping. The important thing is to be safe so that you are not a danger to yourself and others. Your instructors will let you know how you are doing in that respect. Otherwise resist the habit of comparing yourself to others. Accept the fact that others may have eye-hand coordination and reflexes that you don't have. (This is not necessarily true, of course--you have only jumped a few times!) Skydiving, like golf, is a difficult skill to master. Just remember that the object is to have fun. I honestly think that on many jumps I had the least skills but had the most fun. Hang in there!

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[Andy_Collins 0]

I would guess that most people struggle at some point on AFF.

I recently completed my AFF

There I was practising reserve drills over and over... but the upshot- no problems on morning refreshers

My exits and lack of arching were what affected my confidence.

Level 3, I nearly flipped myself and 2 instructors on our backs.

Level 4, I did flip myself and instructor, couldn't get back stable and got pulled at 9500ft

Level 4 repeat, flipped on exit again, but now learnt to get stable

there is progression and things to be learnt from problems.

I now have no problem getting stable again, due to being unstable many times...

oh and I would say it was only on my consols when finally I could just exit stable properly with confidence

keep positive, if you don't give up, then your not failing anything

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

I...failed

This is a large part of why you feel so discouraged- because you think each AFF level is a test, so needing to repeat a level is "failure". Well, that's not correct.

AFF levels are not tests, they are training - practice - in a radically new skill set that you've never tried before, in a radically foreign environment (freefall). It's just that each level is so expensive, it feels like a test. That's unfortunate, but it's the nature of the AFF training method.

Just as when you learned to drive, you had to practice certain maneuvers (like parallel parking) multiple times to do it correctly, your new skydiving skills need to be practiced multiple times to learn them, too. The first tries aren't "failure", they're just practice.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Andy9o8

Quote

I...failed

This is a large part of why you feel so discouraged- because you think each AFF level is a test, so needing to repeat a level is "failure". Well, that's not correct.

AFF levels are not tests, they are training - practice - in a radically new skill set that you've never tried before, in a radically foreign environment (freefall). It's just that each level is so expensive, it feels like a test. That's unfortunate, but it's the nature of the AFF training method.

Just as when you learned to drive, you had to practice certain maneuvers (like parallel parking) multiple times to do it correctly, your new skydiving skills need to be practiced multiple times to learn them, too. The first tries aren't "failure", they're just practice.

I agree. I saw, on each AFF jump I repeated, that I was learning something each time. In fact, I was probably learning more than if it had gone smoothly. By the time I was done, I was quite confident of my ability to get stable whenever I wanted to be. You only fail if you don't learn from your mistakes.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Boomerdog 0]

I repeated four jumps, BFD. Did you fail or did you not execute the required actions necessary to progress. It is apparent that in all of your jumps, you pulled and landed with a good canopy. Think about that.

[shropshire 0]

I never did this new fangled AFF malarky .. but was on the 'dope' rope for AGES .. way more than a lot of people... I still enjoyed every jump and eventually cracked it....

It's NOT A RACE.

If it's truely something that you enjoy doing stick with it.. you'll get there.

If you can, go and spend some time in the tunnel they are great and take away a lot of the things that can get on top of you when you're first learning and you can concentrate on being stable and smiling in the air.

Have fun

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

1. Welcome to skydiving!

2. It is VERY common for students to have dificulty somewhere in AFF! Level 4 is a common place for students to be challenged. I know a VERY accomplished big-way jumper who did level 4 SEVEN times as a student (there was no nearby tunnel).

3. You have a total of what, four minutes of freefall? FOUR minutes! In any other sport four minutes would not be enough time to figure out how the game was played, let alone become proficient at it. Imagine the first four minutes of learning to snow ski!

4. Struggling as a student has NO bearing on your potential as a skydiver! I didn't get my license until my 40th jump. Beginning with my 13th jump I became a VERY BAD student until I fugured out how to break off, track, and pull properly. After I got my license, I continued to struggle with canopy flight with FEW stand-up landings and TERRIBLE landing accuracy. The videos of my player-coach rookie 4-way RW team (when I had about 100 jumps) are so bad that they are difficult to watch. I am most definitely NOT a sky god, but I do now have >1400 jumps, and I don't embarrass myself too often.

5. This link is intended for all students who struggle. It is the logbbok of a VERY accomplished skydiver who struggled mightly as a student. She has published her logbook to provide struggling students a positive perspective on their situation. This skydiver participated in at least one world record that I know of. She is a full time professional skydiver.
http://crwdog.servebeer.com/CRWdog/HowCRW.html

6. I have a friend who was a coaching client of mine when he was between AFF and his A-license. He has subsequently told me that he almost gave up several times due to TERROR. He is now on a open class team that just came back from an international competition. Not too bad for a guy who thought that skydiving might not be for him.

Smile, Breathe, Relax

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[BIGUN 1,050]

IMO Level IV is meant to be more complex. Most AFF students will leave the sport after Level I and the next exit point is generally Level IV. Don't give up. After Level IV; your confidence will grow exponentially. Stop thinking about everyone else and just focus on you and relaxing during this dive.

ETA: What GLIDEANGLE said is important.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[SCS292 1]

Andy9o8

Quote

I...failed

It's just that each level is so expensive, it feels like a test. That's unfortunate, but it's the nature of the AFF training method.

What ever happened to doing a few static line jumps, a hop & pop, and a 30 second delay and then start chasing three guys out who could build a base? We sure as hell weren't as good as many of todays jumpers if my pornographic memory is as accurate as the GoPro of every jump now days. But we could get together in freefall and even build 8 man stars from a couple of Cessnas, have a great time doing it and a great time talking about it over a few beers and some herbal therapy later.

As for nerves, 30-45 minutes in a Cessna, twin Beech or DC-3 gave you a lot more time to worry about the future, or the lack of one, than a 10 minute ride in todays elevators. When I started jumping in Valley Mills I was a little taken aback when everyone started singing "Shall We Gather at the River" when we got to 10k. But by the time the hymn was over it was time to get out and the butterflies went away when I hit the door head first and then went head down to catch up. I think I was nervous on every jump I made but I also enjoyed every jump. Hang in there and have fun. It doesn't have to be serious business.

[tbrown 26]

Your doubts, and even any fears you may have, are completely normal. Skydiving is not a natural activity, all your basic instincts are telling you not to do it. Plus it's full of completely new and different sensations that can even be disorienting.

That's why there's a student progression, it's to help you deal with things one at a time. It does get easier, and it gets a whole lot better. So don't worry if you feel like an ugly duckling for a while. Most of us, even a lot of world champion class skydivers, have all had to deal with it. If anybody could just do it what fun would it be ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

You aren't alone. A lot of people went through this. Including me.

You list a number of errors, but it sounds like you jumped, successfully deployed your canopy and landed without injury each time.
My definition of a "successful" skydive is:
1 - Everyone lands safely
2 - Learn something
3 - Have fun.
Everything else is icing on the cake.

Did your instructors suggest that you take up a less intensive sport? (We call that the "Bowling Speech")
Or did they offer suggestions on how to improve for next time?
Keep in mind, they are right there with you, and if they thought you were a real danger, they wouldn't take you up.

There is a wealth of suggestions already posted, Glide Angle's post has a lot of what you are looking for. Including Wendy's logbook.

It all boils down to "How bad do you want it?"
Are you willing to go back up and try again?

Last, there was a graphic artist who tried a tandem...
And another one...
And thought "Can I really do this?"

And documented her trials, tribulations and ultimate success in cartoon form.

The Skydiving Duck

Absolutely the best representation of the AFF progression I have ever encountered.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ryoder 1,381]

ianyapxw

You might want to consider going to the tunnel, it will help both your stability, and possibly your confidence. Even people fresh out of AFF who go to the tunnel find it a challenge staying in one spot.

Hell, I had a few hundred jumps before my first tunnel flight, and that tunnel just wasn't big enough for me!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[D22369 0]

you are not alone, in the 12 years of being an instructor I have had ONE student that did not struggle with anything... just one in the countless numbers of students.

in my experience most encounter a confidence draining problem within the first 10 jumps that causes them to think that maybe this isn't for them - and many gave in and quit

these days there are tunnels, in my opinion the best thing to happen for students since AAD's - go hit one, explain to the instructors there what happened and what you want to work on *(stability - losing and regaining) - you will probably have to make a jump or two where you do what they want you to in able to get to that, but its a small price to pay to learn just how easy it is to be stable.

yup- Its easy to stay or regain stability, and one day soon you will look back and wonder why you had any issue with it at all.

stay with it, you can do it - years from now when you get ratings and you are working with a troubled student that is experiencing difficulties and asking the same question it will give you an insight into what they are thinking.

oh, almost forgot, look at that level 4 as a do-over, not a failure - even when things didnt go well you still learned things - that jump still gave you experience and even if you cannot point to any part of the jump that you think increased your knowledge or skill.... it did, your brain stores everything, you did learn things and that will help you in the future.

ever had a name you could not recall no matter how hard you tried to remember it? - to give up and suddenly it just jumped out at you? - your still working on the problem even when your not
Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[DrDom 0]

I'm still a student, and CERTAINLY no sky-god... so I can't provide you advice how to get "better" but I can say that I think it was put best that you did NOT "Fail"... you simply did not succeed. We get very caught up in our culture that if you aren't perfect you failed. But realize the only person you are trying to compete with is yourself.

If you love the sky, which it sounds like you do, then just go and remember that you didn't "fail"... you simply did not meet a VERY high standard in a VERY short time. I see this in people I road race with, they aren't first so they think they aren't good drivers. You know what, some are amazing drivers, and all of us cut a corner wrong and spun here and there.

The "victory" will be getting back up there, not just going through the levels.

One of my best friends "quit" after jump 1 when he became completely altitude unaware and his instructor had to pull for him. Now he has a D license and is a gifted individual in the sky. Keep at it :)

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[Tink1717 2]

I got stuck on level 4 too. That was 2300 jumps ago. Keep at it. Get to a tunnel and let 'er rip!

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Tink1717

I got stuck on level 4 too. That was 2300 jumps ago. Keep at it. Get to a tunnel and let 'er rip!

You have 2300 level 4 jumps?

Wow, that is persistence.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Tink1717 2]

Walked right into that one didn't I???

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[skybill 18]

Hi Vars,
'Where 'ya located, is there a tunnel near by?? (Fill out your info on your profile!) 'Ya can write a song about what you are experiencing,"The old Level IV Bluez!!!" Every jump you make is a new experience and a chalenge. If the Sport was easy, we'd all get bored and take up Bowling Just keep at it! Just think, you're doing 60 second skydives!!! You could be on Staticline doing dummy pulls tryin' to get "Off the Rope!!!" (that was the Old Daze!!)

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[jumpgump 0]

Varsity,

I am currently on my third attempat level 7 AFF. I understand the discouragement. Everyone keeps telling me the same thing they are saying to you - don't give up! The chief instructor at the skydiving school where I am taking AFF told me that he failed level 4 AFF twice when he was a student. You should read his skydiving credentials now - amazing and impressive.

Some are naturals with this, but I think most are like the two of us. Every student that has been at the school with me on the days that I have trained have all had to repeat AFF levels sometimes more than once.

Anyway, I'm in the same boat with you in some respects. You probably have already of my situation on the "Jump Anxiety" thread on this forum. We just have to jump and jump and jump until we get er' done.