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orphanedhanyou

List of Companies with Incidents???

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And where might "your area" be?

Every skydiving center has accidents. How many, will be a function of the volume of business they do. Those accidents are hardly ever the fault of the business that runs the operation, they are mistakes made by individual skydivers. So if you're trying to find someplace you feel is safe based upon a low number of accidents, that's an invalid way of determining safety. Even very busy places who have been around a long time and who have experienced a lot of accidents, operate as safe as they can possibly be. This can be a dangerous sport, if you can't handle that concept, don't do it.

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I once broke my toe while landing, a very serious incident! Do I blame the company that made the canopy, or the company that owns the DZ, or the manufacture of the sandals I was wearing, or mother nature for putting the rock in my way? No I blame the 50 jump wonder who was flying the canopy!
----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

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Oddball request actually but here goes.

News reports which are generally inaccurate do in fact list the companies involved, nearly always. Due to the inaccuracies of "news" stories that type of inaccurate information is not complied in that manner here.

Google is your friend.

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my area apparently has had some skydiving incidents but the news reports dont list the companies....does this site show a list of companies with fatalities? or can i only search by type of incident and year?



I'm inferring that you are connecting a DZ that has high incident numbers with low safety. Right?

Don't make that mistake. There are BIG DZ's out there that are very safe, like Z-hills and Cross Keys, but have high incident numbers due to sheer volume of jumps. By contrast I've seen fly by night DZ's that are as sketchy as Truman's DZ in Fandango that have never lost anyone. (Due to low volume, if you only jump once and make it, the DZ looks good.)

So, what exactly are you asking? Be specific and name names. "is XXXXXXX DZ a safe operation or what?" would be a good place to start.
Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

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of course they all have incidents, but when i have 5 companies to pick from ones where negligence is involved would be nice to steer clear of and helps narrow down which one id like to go to, instead of just going eeny, meeny, miny, moe.


and companies do have incidents because a company hires and backs an instructor that may or may not have a history of incidents or problems. or an instructor in some cases is the owner of the business.

ex: a review of a company in my area said an instructor was clearly intoxicated. i don't trust that instructor or that company for hiring them so since i have other options, i'm crossing that company on my list.

if you see two otherwise identical companies that have been in business 10 years, #1 with 5 incidents and #2 with 10, you pick #1. even if they were completely out of the instructor/companies control and they both still have the same chance of a problem occurring in the future. its extra/fake peace of mind just like we all use when picking a "safe" cars or a "safe" hotel to stay at.


otherwise why list incidents on this site at all? if its not relevant whats the point?

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my question is simply about this websites set up and functionality.

does this site have a search of incidents by company or list the company at all, any where when discussing incidents?

so far all i see is being able to search them by year and category etc.

just wanted to know if i missed any other search options since i am new to the site.

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orphanedhanyou

if you see two otherwise identical companies that have been in business 10 years, #1 with 5 incidents and #2 with 10, you pick #1. even if they were completely out of the instructor/companies control and they both still have the same chance of a problem occurring in the future. its extra/fake peace of mind just like we all use when picking a "safe" cars or a "safe" hotel to stay at.



Faulty logic. Let's say that #1 had those 5 incidents in 10,000 jumps, and #2 had 10 incidents in 40,000 jumps. Which one do you think is more safe?

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otherwise why list incidents on this site at all? if its not relevant whats the point?



Because we like to learn from other's mistakes so that we don't repeat them, thereby improving out safety record over time. Which we've done a fantastic job of over the last 30 years. We now make something like four times as many jumps with only half of the fatalities of 30 years ago.

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my question is simply about this websites set up and functionality. does this site have a search of incidents by company or list the company at all, any where when discussing incidents?



No. Try Angie's List.

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just wanted to know if i missed any other search options since i am new to the site.



Let us know what "area" you're in and which dropzones you're considering and you'll get a rash of opinions. Opinions are like assholes, of course, everyone's got one. :D:D

Here's some "facts." There exists no comprehensive source for incident information, particularly if you define incident as including both fatalities and serious injuries. This site is not complete, even for fatalities, and it's nowhere near complete for injuries, serious or otherwise. The USPA (assuming you are in the U.S.) database is not complete. So that's your numerator. Flawed data.

Then there's your denominator - how are you, the (presumable) first-time student, going to know how many jumps Dropzone A performed vs. Dropzone B? Even if you get that number, how many of those were student jumps (because assuming you're a student - that's the number you care about)? (Here's a hint: those numbers aren't generally available to the public if they're maintained at all).

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ones where negligence is involved would be nice to steer clear of



How do you define negligence? Do you even know what you're looking for?
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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orphanedhanyou

ones where negligence is involved



That is not what you asked. And the answer is "almost none of them", if you mean negligence by instructors that leads to an accident for a student.

I think you are looking for the wrong kind of information in choosing a place to skydive - it is understandable! But, the questions you should really be asking are: which centre near me has friendly staff, a well maintained plane, and instructors who will teach me the things I should know?

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otherwise why list incidents on this site at all? if its not relevant whats the point?



Because the vast majority of skydiving incidents do not involve negligence on the part of the company - rather, mistakes on the part of individual jumpers. We discuss incidents not to blame, but to try, as best we can, not to repeat those mistakes ourselves.

We do not always do as well as we should.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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orphanedhanyou

if you see two otherwise identical companies that have been in business 10 years, #1 with 5 incidents and #2 with 10, you pick #1. even if they were completely out of the instructor/companies control and they both still have the same chance of a problem occurring in the future. its extra/fake peace of mind just like we all use when picking a "safe" cars or a "safe" hotel to stay at.



Right...so are you trying to explain to us why your own line of questioning doesn't make sense? Because I think you've just convinced me.

Here you explain that picking a company based on past incidents, even "even if they were completely out of the instructor/companies control" is "extra/fake peace of mind just like we all use when picking a "safe" cars or a "safe" hotel to stay at."

Really?

Maybe you should stick to internet skydiving. It has the least amount of incidents by far.

Edited to add: Everyone keeps asking where you're from and you have, so far, declined to answer. Just curious why that is.
Apex BASE
#1816

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