What makes skydivers so different from whuffos?

[Guru312 0]

I posted the following a day or so ago in the DB Cooper forum. Doing so was way off-topic so I thought I'd bring it here and ask your opinions.

Quote from my post in DB Cooper:

Some of you posting to this thread need to question your overall intent for being here.

It may read as very strange to you non-jumpers but jumpers really are different from you. As odd is it may seem, during my 50+ years involved with the sport I personally have never seen a physical confrontation or heated argument between jumpers. Disagreements, of course; but nothing like I see here.

Sure, lots of heated arguments in some other forums but nothing like in this DB thread.

Long before this DB thread was started I've been wondering about what sets jumpers so apart from the non-jumpers. I've always noticed that jumpers treat each other with more "respect" but I really don't know why.

Maybe I'm brainwashed, some how, but I really do think we see life, and live life, totally differently. I've thought this long before the Internet was created but interaction seen here underscores my premise: we really are different from whuffos.

What do you think?

I've never seen a physical confrontation on a drop zone. I have been to massive boogies, the Herd Boogie in Pennsylvania for many years, and saw thousands of people's gear laying out blankets or in the back of vans totally open and unprotected. I have heard of only one theft.

My questions: What makes us so different than non-jumpers? Why do we get along so much better than the rest of society?

Or...Am I totally wrong and we are just as nasty and vindictive as non-jumpers?

Your thoughts?

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[DSE 3]

Guru312

I've never seen a physical confrontation on a drop zone. I have been to massive boogies, the Herd Boogie in Pennsylvania for many years, and saw thousands of people's gear laying out blankets or in the back of vans totally open and unprotected. I have heard of only one theft.

My questions: What makes us so different than non-jumpers? Why do we get along so much better than the rest of society?

Or...Am I totally wrong and we are just as nasty and vindictive as non-jumpers?

Your thoughts?

Interesting. I've observed several physical altercations, although never been involved in one. Guys pissed off over girls, guys angry at other guys, tandem instructors peeved at another guy for cutting them, off...etc.

I'd submit that skydivers like whuffos, are people no different than their counterparts in the world. I've personally observed one skydiver taking it upon themselves to try to cost another skydiver his civilian job. A military instructor also got tweaked at another instructor and indeed did cost the other man his slot in a prestigious assignment.

People are people regardless of what they do for fun.

I'd submit participants in skydiving can be just as wonderful or just as nasty as anyone else in any other leisurely pursuit. Being a skydiver doesn't offer immunity from social woes that other groups may experience.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I've seen tempers flare a couple of times, and lots and lots of politics among the DZ employees. Most of the time we're at the dropzone we're pretty happy -- either about to jump out of a plane, just jumped out of a plane or both. Or having beer. Pretty much anywhere else, you're likely to be pissed off -- at work or just driving around. A few minutes at the dropzone and you're focused on what you need to do to stay alive for the next hour or so and the the daily BS just kind of gets pushed into the background. Then I go back to work on Monday and they harsh my mellow in 5 minutes.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[NWFlyer 2]

There's drama, there's tempers, there's bad behavior among skydivers just as among the non-skydiving population. On the whole, I don't really find us to be "special" in that way.

What you mentioned about theft, I think, is probably similar to what you'd see in any relatively small community where everyone knows everyone else for the most part (most skydivers don't even need six degrees of separation - I can usually get to someone in two degrees without searching too hard). In those communities, there ends up being a greater degree of trust, because it's "all in the family." Someone could certainly very easily abuse that trust and rip people off, but the chances of them being able to do it for very long are slim, as are the chances of them being able to continue in the sport without having a reputation that precedes them. And yeah, I know of at least a few examples of folks in skydiving who have burned bridges that way.

(Came back to edit this to say that even if we're not "special" I still think that skydivers are a pretty cool group of folks, and I've met an amazing bunch of people through my participation in the sport. What I like most about it is that it's opened me up to a range of types of people that I probably wouldn't have encountered in my "real world" life, and has opened up my eyes in a lot of ways. Wouldn't trade that for anything!).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[ridebmxbikes 0]

Hell, I've already seen a couple people burn bridges at dropzones, houses, physical alterations and I've only been in the sport for two years.

I do sense a special bond with jumpers though. Maybe because we all love to talk about skydiving so we all have an easy ice breaker and something in common. Maybe its because as students we hear of the special bond between skydivers so its programmed in our heads early on.

[ianyapxw 0]

Guru312

As odd is it may seem, during my 50+ years involved with the sport I personally have never seen a physical confrontation or heated argument between jumpers. Disagreements, of course; but nothing like I see here.

I don't know... why are your experiences so different from the others ITT? Just an honest question.

Do you tend to stay in smallish DZs?

[Guru312 0]

ianyapxw

I don't know... why are your experiences so different from the others ITT? Just an honest question.

Do you tend to stay in smallish DZs?

I don't know what "ITT" means; certainly not International Telephone and Telegraph.

I have owned and jumped at mostly at 2 and 3 Cessna DZs. So...smallish.

I don't have enough information to state that my experiences are different from others. That's why I'm asking what others think.

From my experience as a DZO as well as ten years as a jump pilot jumpers are more respectful of others and they seem to have a more laissez-faire or live and let live attitude. They seem to be less physically confrontational and, in general, just more laid back and accepting of others than the non-jumping community.

That's my observation over a whole lot of years of participating...and watching.

I think jumpers are more individualistic and less conforming than whuffos which makes them seem more accepting of differences in others.

I'll be 73 years old in March. My really close friends are jumpers who I have known for 30-40 years.

My observation. I'm asking for yours...and others here. Nothing more than a curiosity.

Even more simply put: I like the "attitude" had by people who jump out of airplanes. I guess it boils down to that.

And you?

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Guru312 0]

NWFlyer

(Came back to edit this to say that even if we're not "special" I still think that skydivers are a pretty cool group of folks, and I've met an amazing bunch of people through my participation in the sport. What I like most about it is that it's opened me up to a range of types of people that I probably wouldn't have encountered in my "real world" life, and has opened up my eyes in a lot of ways. Wouldn't trade that for anything!).

Now that's what I'm talking about!

I'm old. I've learned over the years that I really don't relate well to non-jumpers. It's an attitude or "something" which makes jumpers different. I spent...ah, I'm still spending!...most of my life as a business owner/entrepreneur and I have rubbed elbows with people at all levels of life and none of them, rich or famous, are more fun to be around than people who throw themselves out of perfectly good airplanes.

With the exception of Nicole Kidman, I can't think of anyone I'd rather hang with than a skydiver. I would love to hear that she is a jumper. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if she is.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[ianyapxw 0]

ITT is In This Thread (:

I've never been skydiving before, only tunnel, and I plan to start in a month when I leave my country. More details are in the "introduction and greets" forum under "to introduce myself..." Your experiences are reassuring though as I plan to go to a smallish DZ myself
While I can't comment on the experiences of others, I reasoned that a large DZ will be cliquey (think extended family) and less welcoming while a small DZ will be more accomodating (think small family).

Things also change a lot. With wind tunnels, increasing popularity and stuff, I won't be surprised if a lot of people have a competitive mindset that screws up the culture because they want to one-up the guy beside them. I'm sure everyone knows people like that.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

With the exception of Nicole Kidman, I can't think of anyone I'd rather hang with than a skydiver. I would love to hear that she is a jumper. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if she is.

I met her once years ago Bernie...yup at a drop zone!

She wasn't jumping though, she was there with her boyfriend Tom Cruise.
They were filming Days of Thunder, I was at the DZ practicing for a demo into Daytona.

Sat next to Tom on the ride up but didn't jump with him - he did make quite an impression on me though, so much so I had to go out and get my OWN gorgeous red head!


MY red head is an accomplished pilot, and she would agree with you 100%...Skydivers are 'different'.

She & I have had that conversation many times, we'll happen to show up at some small airport somewhere in the world - she'll go talk with the pilots & I'll go hang with the jumpers.

She gets some polite conversation...I get invited on a load, the free loan of a rig, invited out to dinner, offered a place to stay for the night.

Never fails to amaze her - I have 'family' I've never met...all over the planet!


'WHY' are we different than wuffos?

Just lucky I guess...

My take is, it's because we share a common 'experience' in which we push ourselves physically & mentally beyond the average human's comfort zone.

We play in a environment that has very little gray area. Screw up and the consequences are fast & final...but do it right and the reward is indescribable.

In seeking that reward...I know and accept that I'm weighing it against everything I ever hope to have, or hope to do ~ and so does that person sitting across from me!

You really can't get any more 'on the same page' than that...weird thing to have in common, sure makes for tight friends though!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

ianyapxw

ITT is In This Thread (:

I've never been skydiving before, only tunnel, and I plan to start in a month when I leave my country. More details are in the "introduction and greets" forum under "to introduce myself..." Your experiences are reassuring though as I plan to go to a smallish DZ myself
While I can't comment on the experiences of others, I reasoned that a large DZ will be cliquey (think extended family) and less welcoming while a small DZ will be more accomodating (think small family).

Things also change a lot. With wind tunnels, increasing popularity and stuff, I won't be surprised if a lot of people have a competitive mindset that screws up the culture because they want to one-up the guy beside them. I'm sure everyone knows people like that.

I've jumped at a couple of larger DZs and I haven't noticed much in the way of cliques. About half the time I go the DZ with no plan in mind and thinking I'll probably just do a solo tracking jump or two, I end up jumping with 4 or 5 other people doing a speedstar or something. Skydivers are pretty outgoing and it's rare you'll get a refusal if you ask to go on a jump with them.

I don't think wind tunnels will significantly increase the number of people joining the sport. Most people who go to the wind tunnel do it once for a birthday or other special occasion. It's not that often they hang around. Same thing goes for tandem jumps. Occasionally you'll have someone here tell us they got their start with a tandem jump, but the vast majority of tandem jump and the slightly-less-vast majority of AFF students don't go on to get a license.

Have you spent much time at the tunnel? Even the whuffos who are waiting for their turn in the tunnel have a similar vibe. They're excited and happy and even if they've never been in there they kind of have something in common in the desire to at least try flying. Perhaps the thing that makes skydivers get along so well isn't something they were born with. Maybe a little piece of sky gets stuck in them on their first jump.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Southern_Man 0]

Guru312

***

I have owned and jumped at mostly at 2 and 3 Cessna DZs. So...smallish.

I don't have enough information to state that my experiences are different from others. That's why I'm asking what others think.

Just my experience but I have jumped at a variety of DZs and believe that there is quite a bit of difference at small DZs (where you know all the experienced jumpers personally) and large commerciaql DZs where there is quite a bit more anonymity. It is much easier to be an asshole at the larger places.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[bluebird932 0]

I think sport and hobby has some influence, for example all these boxers and fighters they are often fighters also in private life, they hate each other before and after ring.
Of course there are plenty assholes but in my opinion skydivers are much more friendly, with temperament and fantasy, this is what I like.
If I would have to say why I don't like, I think skydiving sometimes makes people proud. I know many jumpers they are so dumb that talk only with "great jumpers" and all the rest they treat like shit

[Tink1717 2]

Quote

during my 50+ years involved with the sport I personally have never seen a physical confrontation or heated argument between jumpers.

I have. And many more than I'd like. I have seen multiple staff on staff violence, student on staff violence and jumper to jumper violence including a jumper on jumper stabbing. I don't know how you've went roughly twice as long in the sport as I've been in and not crossed that.

I have seen theft at DZ's and boogies that total in the tens of thousands of dollars, seen drunken vandalism of extreme senselessness and been the victim of hundreds of dollars of property destruction. I too have been to the Herd and NOT seen that, but that was the exception rather than the rule. We are no more or less barbarous than the average whuffo.

BTW, where are you jumping that you've never seen that? I want to move there!

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Tink1717

BTW, where are you jumping that you've never seen that? I want to move there!

After all that I think I'm reasonably happy at a DZ where there are hardly ever any stabbings!

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[ianyapxw 0]

Quote

I've jumped at a couple of larger DZs and I haven't noticed much in the way of cliques.

I've read some posts about cliques, though I admit the experience might greatly vary, and I can't comment myself since I never jumped.

While I can't comment about percentages, I do know of a few people (myself included) who probably would not take up skydiving if not for tunnel. This doesn't only include tunnel rats but tunnel instructors as well . Not only that, I feel that the widespread availability of tunnels makes the sport extremely competitive, as it is now very easy to form a RW team and get a ton of 'jumps' in a short period of time. I personally don't believe in competition, but hey, that's just the opinion of an outsider .

I've about 3 hours in the tunnel and I'm working on sitflying.

I don't deny that skydivers are a different group of people should have a better culture than say bodybuilding or soccer. I don't think it's so much as the 'sky' but more of a desire to just enjoy life not through competition, but through experiencing what life has to offer. Maybe SCUBA divers treat each other the same.

But hey, that's just my theory

[ianyapxw 0]

As someone new, what do you think is the main cause of such violent disagreements, and what's the best way to keep myself out of trouble?

[NWFlyer 2]

ianyapxw

As someone new, what do you think is the main cause of such violent disagreements, and what's the best way to keep myself out of trouble?

Same as everywhere.

Egos
Alcohol
Believing that violence is a way to solve problems
Alcohol
Drama
Alcohol
Spending too much time embedded in the DZ world and losing perspective
Alcohol

I'm only sort of being facetious about the alcohol, because other than actual skydiving incidents or weather hold shenanigans, it's involved in most of the injuries on the dropzone (come to think of it, if people have totally given up on the weather, it can be involved in the weather hold shenanigans, too!)

It's not that you can't/shouldn't drink. But treat a dropzone after hours like you would a bar or a large house party and be aware of the bad behavior that alcohol can unleash.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[ianyapxw 0]

Thanks for the reply!

It's good to be prepared

[Krip 2]

Hi 312

got to run but , I'll give you a little teaser, started in 68, witnessed a alpha male set up a guy to fail in 1975, then cold cocked him in the mouth when he showed up for the post dive. No warning just Bam.

More to follow.

Maybe and thats final.

R.

One Jump Wonder

[grue 1]

Guru312

With the exception of Nicole Kidman, I can't think of anyone I'd rather hang with than a skydiver. I would love to hear that she is a jumper. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if she is.

Oh god, why her? Ew.

cavete terrae.

[shropshire 0]

In accordance with Set Theory .. the only thing different is that Skydivers jump out of planes .. otherwise they a pretty much a sub-set of the rest of the human race ; warts and all!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[grimmie 173]

I have seen very little anger out of the skydiving community the past 25 years.

It always amazes me that you can get a couple of hundred skydivers all jammed into the Lost Prairie Lounge, all drinking their heads off, all chasing the same girls (or guys), for a week solid, and no one punches out anyone, except for maybe a couple of obnoxious locals.

You could never put a couple of hundred firemen and cops together like that without major mayhem

[ChrisD 0]

I actually do think that there are some quantifiable differences in the skydiving population as compared with the general public. And each and every one of them positive in the best possible way!

For some strange reason I have it in my head that with the increase of solitary activities, like Nintendo, TV, and such, with so many people spending large amounts of time at work, isolated,...

that skydivers need to form a community, look out for each other, spend time together in close quarters, cramped aircraft, they may not start out with this quality but to be successful in skydiving is also to be successful in forming relationships at the dz. In other words skydivers embody many of the positive qualities of a well functioning community in a larger environment that favors solitary activities. It certainly feels that as a role model there is a lot of truth that skydivers lead the way in a world that has forgotten how to communicate and relate to each other! That's just my two cents on this subject. Or how it feels to be at a dz as compared with a supermarket on Saturday for example. I dread going to the supermarket. I start making like Pavlov's dog at the thought of seeing some of my skydiving peeps!



C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Guru312 0]

grimmie

...

You could never put a couple of hundred firemen and cops together like that without major mayhem

Ahem...needless to say, I agree with you but it sorta looks like you and I are in the minority here.

Whether it's genetic...like a connection to the D4DR gene, or another gene, or something else...I think we look at life differently. The references to a few fights that people have seen...in decades of their own involvement in the sport...doesn't change my mind.

If anyone disagrees with me I'll kick their butt.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper