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mchamp

logbook vs iphone app logbook

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Do you know if your dropzone would be willing to accept an iphone app logbook to view your jumps and verify your numbers if you are traveling to different DZ's or would they only take traditional paperback logbooks? I loathe writing and also have horrendous penmenship, I however don't mind typing......lol ;)

Technically speaking its more accurate since it gives more detail info regarding freefall time, jump dates, jumps and has location for signatures as well.
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It would depend on the DZ.

I have been to DZ's that asked to see my logbook.... A problem since I have not had a logbook in 3k jumps.

They would not accept a neptune, so I doubt they would accept an iphone logbook.

Luckily, I have been around long enough and have enough ratings that most people just accept my neptune and move on....

So it will depend on the DZ and how they feel about it.... I have had problems without a logbook.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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I could see why some dz's wouldn't accept neptunes due to the fact that someone could easily just borrow a friends.

Regarding an iPhone app logbook it actually has to be your phone (that is of course you don't borrow someone else's iPhone lol) and who doesn't always carry their cell with them? Couldn't someone use the same method if he/she wanted to borrow else's logbook? It's the same principle. :S

Not too long ago I was talking to Jessica from the PD team and she had actually encountered the same problem and didn't bring her logbook to a certain DZ and thus presented her Neptune. The manifest girl was relatively new and didn't know of her nor did she accept the Neptune. Eventually she had to find someone to vouch for her..... Lol

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

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Quote



Regarding an iPhone app logbook it actually has to be your phone (that is of course you don't borrow someone else's iPhone lol) and who doesn't always carry their cell with them? Couldn't someone use the same method if he/she wanted to borrow else's logbook? It's the same principle. :S



Sure, but it's their DZ, their rules. There's a couple DZs I've heard of where people have had trouble without logbooks, but most are fairly accommodating of various ways to validate experience/currency (including phone calls to your home DZ to check in on your last jump date, things like that).

You'll also find that in some cases, the more experience you have, less gets validated. Skydive Oregon (as one example I know) only checks logbooks if you don't have a D license. Once you've got a D, they just check other stuff (USPA membership & license are in date, reserve repack).
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Accepting an elecronic device as a logbook seems to me to open the door to possible frauds. Since I have been a witness of a fraud on a paper logbook, then you could imagine what we can expect with electronic devices. Those do not record the locations, the details, comments of the supervisors...etc and pair signatures either. Your writing style on your paper logbook is your trademark, it makes it genuine.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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I have seen people add jumps to their dytters in the planeride up.
I have heard people geting 100 or even 200 jumps during the off season here.

And these logbooks have been checked before geting higher licenses or instructor ratings.

So in myy opinion paper or electronic doesn't matter none of them is safe from fraud.

Howver, if you download the jumps from your protrack to your computer you get a graph of the skydive, you don't get that on the "added" jumps.
In my opinion, if you want to believe a logbook believe the jumptrack logbook.

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i have a log book, digital photos of my logbook, jump track log book and a protrack and they all have the same information on them. I think i have an irrational fear of losing my log book.

I can add more information faster and with greater detail with the jump track log book. also adding pictures without having to print them is kind of handy too. So i guess im going digital this year

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erdnarob

Accepting an elecronic device as a logbook seems to me to open the door to possible frauds. Since I have been a witness of a fraud on a paper logbook, then you could imagine what we can expect with electronic devices. Those do not record the locations, the details, comments of the supervisors...etc and pair signatures either. Your writing style on your paper logbook is your trademark, it makes it genuine.



Letting people take home a log book is also fraudable if you think about it. Unless we all go to stamps anyone can write your number down and flub your signature. You think people are really doing handwriting analysis?

We have to go a little on the honor system because any device you can manipulate or otherwise access in secret can be gamed. But the big question is WHY? I don't understand why someone would want to fluff their books. If the ratings and licenses mean anything it seems it would be an honor to accomplish that on one's own merit. If its bragging rights... who are you bragging to, other jumpers? Does anyone care if you have 500 or 10,000?

Maybe I'm not culturally engrossed enough yet but.... seems like a self regulating industry with no real benefit to fluff the books. You can have 1000 jumps and be a pro or 5000 and not be. Hell, I have a LOT of fight hours and I'm no commercial pilot ;)
You are not the contents of your wallet.

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I've been using the Skydive logbook app for the past 500 jumps and have travelled a fair bit I have never had an issue with any DZs I have visited.
In fact no one has EVER asked to see my logbook in the past 5 years.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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wetrock

Are digital logbooks more accepted now that they have been out for a while? do you see more people using them? Should i stop using my paper logbook?



I bet several years from now, after a lost phone, broken Neptune, or crashed computer many are going to wish they had a paper log book.

I have all of my filled log books, I keep them in a safe place, I won't ever have them crash, I won't ever have to worry about not being able to read over all the cool stuff I did on my first jumps!
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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I was thinking that skydivers, since being part of a big family, would not falsify their logbooks. Well in the case I have in mind, the person was among several jumpers with about the same amount of jumps (between 100 and 200 jumps) and several of them wanted to become a tandem master. Since soon at the DZ it was quite obvious that jumping as a tandem master would be a way to jump free and be paid generously, that situation started a sort of competition, knowing that it takes a minimum of 500 jumps + coach rating to become a TM. That person who falsified the number of jumps took the opportunity when the logbook was allegedly "lost". Suddenly, on a new logbook, the number of jumps increased by about 100 jumps too many. An investigation at visited DZs have shown that the new figures were impossible. Several sources (DZ records, Skydiving Association...) were converging on the same result. Even though the other jumpers (in competition) agreed unanimously about a fraud, the person always refused to sort of rebuilt an approximate new logbook, ie. write down on a piece of paper where the jumps have been made, how many of them at specific locations including the dates and this on a period comprising about 10 months including the no jump Winter months, and get that that "new" logbook approved by officials. As says the dictum " the opportunity makes the thief ".

OTHO it is always possible to investigate if the people (who signed a logbook) were actually present at the jump dates shown on a logbook since DZs keep a record on their computers. And when you go in a DZ for the first time you have to fill up a waiver indicating your number of jumps. Same when you renew your membership. In the reported case, there was suddenly a suspect increase of the amount of jumps.

This type of fraud seems to be rare, but here was a case where the motivation was relatively obvious.

erdnarob : jumper, rigger, instructor examiner, coach, private pilot
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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oh yeah, I had not considered the financial benefits of being a tandem master. Well that kind of makes sense now. I would hope nobody would falsify that but I see there is always possibility for it.

I'm not sure a digital logbook would be any more secure than a paper one though...
You are not the contents of your wallet.

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DougH

*** Are digital logbooks more accepted now that they have been out for a while? do you see more people using them? Should i stop using my paper logbook?



I bet several years from now, after a lost phone, broken Neptune, or crashed computer many are going to wish they had a paper log book.

I have all of my filled log books, I keep them in a safe place, I won't ever have them crash, I won't ever have to worry about not being able to read over all the cool stuff I did on my first jumps!
No a problem for me.
Each time I fill in my log it is backed up to dropbox, and then again to my tablet. There s always 3 copies at any time
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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