Last stage AFF the hop and pop

[grumpylittleman 0]

Hi Guys I'm new to skydiving and in two days, I'm doing my last stage AFF training, the Hop and POP. Ive heard things like you should put it off for a couple of jumps and It's as scary has hell. I have had NO problems coming out stable so far but must admit I'm a little nervous of the hop and pop, where I jump we come out at 4000ft which in as low as my deploy ceiling as been so far. my question is do you get ground rush?, do you still have plenty of time to deploy? ( my instructor says don't rush it) and lastly what's it really like any different?

[airdvr 197]

A common problem. I have no advice other than to say relax. It's all good. I know it looks low to you but it really isn't that low. If you get out at 4 grand you'll have nearly 10 seconds before you're down to 3 grand so there's plenty of time. Problems come in when you are so tight that you screw up the exit so again, use whatever technique you use to relax. Go over it in your mind...count to 10...see how much time that is? You'll be fine. I know, probably doesn't help much but there it is.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[grumpylittleman 0]

thanks, for reminding me about the 1st thousand (10 sec) as your NOT at terminal. I think the main thing for me is just the Nerves(apprehension)and the fact I was on the way up a couple of weeks back and the student doing a hop and pop went out flapping and kicking everywhere while the JM's on the plane started mumbling open the damn chute and then a big sigh was heard when they spotted his open chute. I'll be glad once it's done.

[yoink 321]

grumpylittleman

Hi Guys I'm new to skydiving and in two days, I'm doing my last stage AFF training, the Hop and POP. Ive heard things like you should put it off for a couple of jumps and It's as scary has hell.?

The people telling you that are fucking idiots and should shut the hell up.

Listen to your instructors.
It's just another skydive... 4000ft is loads of time. Smile, relax and have fun! Hop and Pops are awesome!

Think of of it this way - 10 seconds after exiting on your jumps so far, you're well into your skydive, yes? You're not tumbling and panicking....
10 seconds after exit and you've only lost about 1000 feet - still PLENTY high. Hell, on cloudy days we used to exit below that!

One of my bugbears is the fear that AFF students have on hop and pops - there's no reason for it...

Walk through it with me and count out loud:

Exit

ONE THOUSAND - stay in a really good arch position.
TWO THOUSAND - move to your pull position, staying stable
THREE THOUSAND - pull and recover to boxman.

see? Loads of time.


Don't overthink it. Have fun! Do more....

[Unstable 8]

Quote

Hi Guys I'm new to skydiving and in two days, I'm doing my last stage AFF training, the Hop and POP. Ive heard things like you should put it off for a couple of jumps and It's as scary has hell. I have had NO problems coming out stable so far but must admit I'm a little nervous of the hop and pop, where I jump we come out at 4000ft which in as low as my deploy ceiling as been so far. my question is do you get ground rush?, do you still have plenty of time to deploy? ( my instructor says don't rush it) and lastly what's it really like any different?

Good Lord, this discussion is too good to stay out of.
Let me tell you about the Midwest and rural DZ's. The Predominant method here is Static-Line/IAD with your first 5 jumps being from 3,500-4,000 and your first hop & pop being jump 6, assuming you are not asked to repeat any jump. After that, you progress, adding skill upon skill, adding freefall time as you move along. Very common program, still a staple of most single-cessna DZ's. So then we learn to clear the tail and throw, and our first jump at altitude freaks us out.

It will be fine. Relax, don't rush the pull, listen to your instructor, and enjoy the ride. Then, when you get your license, come jump the bug-beaters here in Kansas.

=========Shaun ==========

[jumpgump 0]

If you think 4000 is a low hop n' pop, check this one out at 1500 feet. I didn't think our safety man was going to jump behind us since we were doing a static line jump and he was wearing a freefall rig. I wonder how low it can go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZJZfoiWswY&list=

[NickyCal 17]

I don't have any sage advice, but I applaud you for getting it out of the way. I finished AFF and made it as far as jump 17 before being weathered out for the winter (and still waiting!). I am 8 jumps away from my A with only packing left to be signed off. And I've had all winter to master that skill. But guess what also still needs to be completed? Yep, two hop n' pops. In the back of my mind, I dread the return of nice weather because I actually have to go through with it.

So everybody who says, "Just relax", here's my reason for being anything but. Up to now, I'm a 4500 wave and open type. Loads of time to deal with potential problems. That hop n' pop from 3500 just seems downright dangerous to me! I know, I know, ha ha ha from the person leaping out of planes for fun, but it is what it is. I'll do it because I have to, but definitely not because I want to. Look forward to hearing your success story as yet another step in my not-wimping-out!

[GAjumper84 0]

Basically what everyone else said. I did IAD training instead of AFF, and my first jump was supposed to be from 3500, when I jumped we were at 3100'. I thought that was really high! Don't be so worried about it, as everyone else said, you have plenty of time. Hop and pops are some of my favorite skydives as they are the only times I get to exit the cessna at my DZ. Try to have fun, and do a few more when you get a chance and you will see how much fun you can have with it!
As far as ground rush, no, you don't get it. The sight picture will look much different when you go to exit and look down. You don't fall long enough to even get to terminal (hopefully) so you don't cover enough distance to have the ground change much. In reality you shouldn't even be fully "off the hill" when you pitch on this jump, so you really shouldn't be looking at the ground except for a second until you are under canopy. Remember, watch the plane and good luck!

[FastRon 0]

Maybe a look at the old way will help- As mentioned after static line training, we started freefall at hop and pops/5 second delays. Our problem was that we didn't know anything about freefalling yet and didn't know how to really get stable until 10 second delays. You already know how to fall stable, and recover from positions not stable. You have learned how to relax. Your EP's are very likely way more ingrained than ours were and a lot safer too- (Consider belly warts and snag happy open capewells right where the round reserve is going off, and it was NOT in a freebag!) You'll do great! Enjoy the flight, the ride and have fun.

[grumpylittleman 0]

Thanks to everyone who replied and I'm now determined to relax have a quick look at the different sight picture before I leave the plane, arch, count, throw it out , check it and then land it. I have a good/ reliable student rig (navigator 240) and most importantly I'm going to enjoy it [:)
If you're interested I'll post after I nail this.

[Quagmirian 40]

How have your exits been so far? Are you exiting and falling stable for the first few seconds? If that is the case, the you have nothing to worry about as you're just doing the same thing at a lower altitude. If you are having problems, talk to your coaches and see about doing some more full altitude jumps focusing on being nice and stable with maybe a practice pull or two.

[CornishChris 5]

I'm going to add one thing. Don't just do one! Whether it is shortly after Aff or a couple of months later remember to chuck in an occasional low exit. It's fun and good drills. Many of us started on static line so don't have the same fear of low exits that pervades modern day aff students. A dz I used to jump at in Oz made students do 3 to pass Aff. 5k,4k and 3k. I think this is a great idea!

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[grumpylittleman 0]

my DZ makes you do 1 hop and pop from 4000ft (which I do this weekend) at the end of AFF and then you have to do 2 more hop and pops I think the lowest is 3500ft while you work towards the A licence, they also suggested I commence B rels while I'm working towards my A licence

[dthames 0]

grumpylittleman

Hi Guys I'm new to skydiving and in two days, I'm doing my last stage AFF training, the Hop and POP. Ive heard things like you should put it off for a couple of jumps and It's as scary has hell. I have had NO problems coming out stable so far but must admit I'm a little nervous of the hop and pop, where I jump we come out at 4000ft which in as low as my deploy ceiling as been so far. my question is do you get ground rush?, do you still have plenty of time to deploy? ( my instructor says don't rush it) and lastly what's it really like any different?

Do the first 5 or 6 S/L or IAD jumps, that will get you ready and confident.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[Boomerdog 0]

Noob input here. You're not the first to have the yips before the first hop and pops...I wasn't exactly getting on the airplane looking forward to the two I had to do for my USPA license (5,500' and 3,500'). The intent I was told (and I happen to agree) is to provide some orientation and confidence of exiting an aircraft in an emergency assuming sufficient altitude. It's already been discussed here how much time you have to drop the first 1,000.' At my DZ, we don't close during the Winter months but the ceiling limits do at times restrict us to low pass hop and pops. On a couple of occassions, we had no more than 3,800' feet of ceiling. I exited and counted to "5" before pitching the pilot chute at about 3,000.' I had a full canopy at 2,600 (according to my digital altimeter). I can't tell you not to worry or that your concerns are improperly placed...such perspectives keep us on our toes. I think, however, as number of jumps; particularly hop and pops increase with time, you'll find they are a lot of fun and increase your confidence in the event you find yourself being told to get out of a bad aircraft...and let's hope that never happens. Good luck!

[Cutaway68 4]

grumpylittleman

Hi Guys I'm new to skydiving and in two days, I'm doing my last stage AFF training, the Hop and POP. Ive heard things like you should put it off for a couple of jumps and It's as scary has hell. I have had NO problems coming out stable so far but must admit I'm a little nervous of the hop and pop, where I jump we come out at 4000ft which in as low as my deploy ceiling as been so far. my question is do you get ground rush?, do you still have plenty of time to deploy? ( my instructor says don't rush it) and lastly what's it really like any different?

Holy CRAP!!!! 4000ft?!?!?!? Don't do it man!! They are trying to kill you! Never ever get out below 10,000ft! The gear is not designed to open that low. No-one has ever survived this kind of jump!!!!





Hope this helps.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[chuckakers 370]

grumpylittleman

Hi Guys I'm new to skydiving and in two days, I'm doing my last stage AFF training, the Hop and POP. Ive heard things like you should put it off for a couple of jumps and It's as scary has hell. I have had NO problems coming out stable so far but must admit I'm a little nervous of the hop and pop, where I jump we come out at 4000ft which in as low as my deploy ceiling as been so far. my question is do you get ground rush?, do you still have plenty of time to deploy? ( my instructor says don't rush it) and lastly what's it really like any different?

Obviously everyone has some valid points on this, but maybe no one has covered this one...

The real issue on altitude isn't the time to get stable and deploy. From 4K you'll have plenty of time for that. The real issue is the time it takes to deal with a problem with your main should you have one. Don't worry about that. If you can identify a malfunction and perform emergency procedures within a safe time frame at one altitude you can do it at a lower altitude as well.

Relax, arch, get stable, and deploy. If you get your main out quickly enough you'll even get to enjoy the very cool sensation of your canopy deploying behind you rather than above you. That's one of my favorites in skydiving.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[manseman 0]

grumpylittleman

I have had NO problems coming out stable so far but must admit I'm a little nervous of the hop and pop, where I jump we come out at 4000ft which in as low as my deploy ceiling as been so far.

Part of the reason why you deploy that high during AFF is to give your instructors a chance to assist you, then turn and track and finally deploy their own parachutes, so don't get too hung up on comparing numbers.

[katzas 0]

Your response and others made me chuckle. I learned on the rope (static line). Exit altitude was 2800 ft. After many jumps and practice pulls I got off the rope--and my first freefall jump was from 3500 ft.--a hop and pop. I don't think I saw the ground after exiting the airplane until my canopy was open--I was kinda busy pulling. Good advice from lots of folks here--follow your training, listen to your instructors, and just do it. I bet, after it's done you will wonder what all the fuss was about. Have fun.

[Unstable 8]

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Do the first 5 or 6 S/L or IAD jumps, that will get you ready and confident.

[offsubject] There really are benefits of a good SL/IAD Program. It's been a powerful tool in training new jumpers for the last 40 years, and at 25 jumps you can't tell the difference between a student that learned on Sl and a student that learned on the rope.

=========Shaun ==========

[grumpylittleman 0]

Excuse my ignorance I know SL is static line but what does IAD stand for?

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[kingbunky 3]

IAD is instructor assisted deployment. basically the same as static line, but instead of a static line your instructor has your pilot chute in hand and deploys it for you as you leave the aircraft. good for small dzs that don't have static line gear, you just use a normal student rig.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[Kalrigan 6]

Just relax, breathe, and look up when you leave the plane. Oh and don't forget that it's a hop and pop. :)

[grumpylittleman 0]

I made it,didn't want to rush it so I jumped got nice and stable and then counted 1 2 3 throw. Had a good canopy by 2800 and then stuffed the landing I flared slightly too high no injuries just pride. Instructor debrief was ,good exit ,why did you wait so long to throw? What height did you have the canopy, don't scare me like that and you stuffed the flare. I thought Shit I might off failed this, then the instructor goes well done you're on the ground in 1 piece and you were stable and in control, welcome to skydiving do you want to do that again? I said why not and did 2 more hop and pops today . I'm going to start some B rels next week along with some packing now with 12 jumps I'm focusing on learning and getting my A licence.

[dthames 0]

Good to hear you knocked it out without issue. Low exit skills are good for cloudy days as well as emergencies.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”