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bean1223

military member with skydiving license ?s

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How's it going my name is Ray, I'm currently in the Navy and stationed in California and really interested in getting my license to skydive solo. just had some questions that maybe some one could answer for me. Like roughly how much the course cost? and my main question is I heard from someone that if you do get your license you have to complete two jumps a month to maintain it. Is this true? If so is there an exception for active duty military for when we deploy out of the states? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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To answer your questions:

1. Depending on where you get your license, it can be roughly around 3-4k, total (it's been a few years since I did this), depending on if you want video of each jump.

2. While you are a student you do need to make 1 jump a month to remain current. If you do drop from being current, all that is required is to make one jump with the instructor. Painless, really. Once you get your A license it increases to at least one jump every 2 months (or 3) I forget. I'm sure someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong.

3. There are no exceptions. I deploy very frequently, and like I said, it is a very painless process to become current again.

You will love it! I made my first jump 3 years ago and I am hooked. Start saving that deployment money now! I am currently in Afghanistan and when I get back I will be buying my first rig. No more rentals for me!

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Patterson

To answer your questions:

1. Depending on where you get your license, it can be roughly around 3-4k, total (it's been a few years since I did this), depending on if you want video of each jump.

2. While you are a student you do need to make 1 jump a month to remain current. If you do drop from being current, all that is required is to make one jump with the instructor. Painless, really. Once you get your A license it increases to at least one jump every 2 months (or 3) I forget. I'm sure someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong.

3. There are no exceptions. I deploy very frequently, and like I said, it is a very painless process to become current again.

You will love it! I made my first jump 3 years ago and I am hooked. Start saving that deployment money now! I am currently in Afghanistan and when I get back I will be buying my first rig. No more rentals for me!



Do they still require permission from your commanding officer with the requisite amounts of paperwork to CYA??

Oh and to the OP... do pick a DZ that will get you recurrent for what was discussed above.. some dz's have other ideas and have you go back thru training or other hoops to ensure a better cash flow to the DZ.. beware.. and ask before you even start.. shop around.. California has a LOT of DZ Options to choose from.

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Do they still require permission from your commanding officer with the requisite amounts of paperwork to CYA??



I ran into my CO AT the DZ getting in the plane. :D:D:D
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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theonlyski

***Do they still require permission from your commanding officer with the requisite amounts of paperwork to CYA??



I ran into my CO AT the DZ getting in the plane. :D:D:D

Back in the old days... you were screwed royally if you damaged government equipment without permission. So I was just curious if they still required all the paperwork and permission.

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******Do they still require permission from your commanding officer with the requisite amounts of paperwork to CYA??



I ran into my CO AT the DZ getting in the plane. :D:D:D

Back in the old days... you were screwed royally if you damaged government equipment without permission. So I was just curious if they still required all the paperwork and permission.

I was assigned to a SOF unit, the leadership had no issues with me skydiving on the weekend, so long as I wasn't beating my wife or getting a DUI.

The guys I knew in the conventional side didn't seem to have issues either.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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theonlyski

*********Do they still require permission from your commanding officer with the requisite amounts of paperwork to CYA??



I ran into my CO AT the DZ getting in the plane. :D:D:D

Back in the old days... you were screwed royally if you damaged government equipment without permission. So I was just curious if they still required all the paperwork and permission.

I was assigned to a SOF unit, the leadership had no issues with me skydiving on the weekend, so long as I wasn't beating my wife or getting a DUI.

The guys I knew in the conventional side didn't seem to have issues either.

Hell... I was on jump status.. got my extra few sheckels a month.. and I STILL had to get permission for skydiving out in civilian land when I went PCS to a new base and new unit... Twice.:o

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About '84 or '85, the Navy came out with an instruction encouraging skydiving by it's members. That's about the time the Golden Knights and the Leap Frogs were very popular. Prior to that you had to request permission which was almost always granted when you pointed out the injury rate comparisons between the command sponsored softball teams and jumping. We were constantly having injuries from softball putting guys on the sick, lame, and lazy list. Once that instruction came out, a number of MWR Facilities promoted skydiving. I jumped at MWR sponsored military clubs in Okinawa, Korea, and the PI but those clubs are long gone now.

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True....and so very sad. Back in the 70's and 80's and up into the mid-90's we had as many as THREE sport parachute clubs on Fort Bragg (XVIII corps, 82nd, and Green Beret Sport Parachute Club). Monthly dues at the GB club were a whopping $7.50 (that's seven dollars and fifty cents) per month and you paid one dollar on each jump day to buy food for the pilots. By comparison, the monthly dues at the 82nd Sport Parachute Club were a shocking $10.00 per month. Most people with half a brain were members of both.

I, for the life of me, can't understand how young military guys can afford the sport at civilian dropzones these days. Well, without ratings anyway..

Chuck

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I spent over half my Navy career skydiving. Didnt really care what the Navy's opinion was and they really didnt ask. Depending on your job you my be removed from a certain programs if you get hurt so you may want to reconsider jumping. I've known pilots who gave it up because they didnt want to lose their fight status.

Anyway you will fall under the same USPA guidelines as anyone else. When I first started jumping I did a lot of recurrency jumps because my job required frequent travel in and out of the states. All that information is found in the Skydivers Information Manual which can be found at the USPA website. Or you can just speak with an instructor. As for cost, call a local DZ to get their run down. Some places require Tandems as first jumps, some dont.

Lastly when you do start jumping try and keep your enthusiasm in check. Their is always that one douche bag who's going to tell you you cant skydive because its to dangerous. Most people in the Navy are about as knowledgeable in skydiving as the average Whuffo off the street. When my girlfriend started jumping her COC tried telling her she needed to fill out an ORM form. I was like just hand them the SIM, that our ORM form.

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SkymonkeyONE

True....and so very sad. Back in the 70's and 80's and up into the mid-90's we had as many as THREE sport parachute clubs on Fort Bragg (XVIII corps, 82nd, and Green Beret Sport Parachute Club). Monthly dues at the GB club were a whopping $7.50 (that's seven dollars and fifty cents) per month and you paid one dollar on each jump day to buy food for the pilots. By comparison, the monthly dues at the 82nd Sport Parachute Club were a shocking $10.00 per month. Most people with half a brain were members of both....
Chuck



Wow...first time I can recall seeing the three Bragg jump clubs mentioned in one sentence. Very nostalgic reading that.

While in the 82nd, I started my sport jumping career in 1960 with the XVIII Abn Corps club because the 82nd club was too popular. As I remember it, only SF members could join the GB club. A very long time ago, in deed, because back then only the Army jump team...not called Golden Knights then...could jump a canopy as hot as a 7G-TU.

I don't not remember any monthly fees for any of the clubs but I forget where I put my glasses and my keys so maybe disregard everything I've written.
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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SkymonkeyONE

True....and so very sad. Back in the 70's and 80's and up into the mid-90's we had as many as THREE sport parachute clubs on Fort Bragg (XVIII corps, 82nd, and Green Beret Sport Parachute Club). Monthly dues at the GB club were a whopping $7.50 (that's seven dollars and fifty cents) per month and you paid one dollar on each jump day to buy food for the pilots. By comparison, the monthly dues at the 82nd Sport Parachute Club were a shocking $10.00 per month. Most people with half a brain were members of both.

I, for the life of me, can't understand how young military guys can afford the sport at civilian dropzones these days. Well, without ratings anyway..

Chuck



I PCSed to Bragg around '92 after selection. I remember the 82nd and SF clubs. Good times. :D

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Thank you for the help, all your info, and your service in Afghanistan. I cant wait to start saving up on deployment for classes. Like you said its soo addicting, I did my first tandem jump back home in MA before I went to Basic and was hooked and told myself next time I do this I don't want to be strapped to someone haha.

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bean1223

ya I feel like my command would completely denny any sort of high risk form to go skydiving solo, thats why I figured i'd keep it hush, hush. Its easier to ask for forgiveness then permission haha.



Just be careful, they might not want to fix you if you get hurt because it wasn't 'in the line of duty'.

I've never seen an issue with it, but then again we never really got hurt. If you're on jump status, you can always say you hurt yourself on a jump. :P
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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I don't know about the Navy, but you don't need any special permission in the Army. In fact, outdoor adventure sports are highly encouraged at all levels, and many of them are more hazardous than skydiving.

As for whether it would be considered "in the line of Duty" or not, as long as it is a regulated DZ, and you follow all of the rules of the regulating authority (USPA, BPA, DFV, whatever), there would be no issues.

It would be marked not in the line of duty only if you were: outside of the mileage area without a pass/leave, violating the sport/dz regulations, you were not at your appointed place of duty (playing hookie from work), or you were explicitly ordered not to for some extraordinary reason.

I heard that from the Horses' mouth, i.e. my local JAG Admin Lawyer.

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MikeBIBOM

I don't know about the Navy, but you don't need any special permission in the Army. In fact, outdoor adventure sports are highly encouraged at all levels, and many of them are more hazardous than skydiving.

As for whether it would be considered "in the line of Duty" or not, as long as it is a regulated DZ, and you follow all of the rules of the regulating authority (USPA, BPA, DFV, whatever), there would be no issues.

It would be marked not in the line of duty only if you were: outside of the mileage area without a pass/leave, violating the sport/dz regulations, you were not at your appointed place of duty (playing hookie from work), or you were explicitly ordered not to for some extraordinary reason.

I heard that from the Horses' mouth, i.e. my local JAG Admin Lawyer.



^^This.^^ And someone's comment about not doing it if you were specifically told not to. While in flight school, we were told not to SCUBA, skydive, or ride motor cross (funny, they didn't say anything about street bikes). You wouldn't get in trouble if you were caught doing those things, but because we were told not to do them while in flight school, you could lose benefits if you died because of it. You also WOULD get in trouble if injuries suffered during one of those activities caused you to go "med down" (or worse, NPQ).
See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

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Ray,

Recurrency isn't that big of a deal - I'm stateside and I have probably a dozen recurrency jumps in my total of about 65 now. I just don't get down to the DZ as often as I'd like, but it's good having a coach/instructor jump every once in a while anyway. As for keeping your A-license, pay your USPA membership every year and you keep it for good.

As far as talking to your command, my recommendation is to be above board and notify your command of your intent. I simply sent in a memo up the chain of command that was my ORM plan. It said that I intend to train under instruction to earn a license, will follow the USPA regs, and avoid jumping in hazardous conditions. I highlighted some risk factors such as weather and equipment failure and stated that the above plan mitigates these risks appropriately. Never had to do anything more and never heard a word to suggest I shouldn't go jump, even after I hit a tree on #5 and had to go get seen multiple times, including an MRI to make sure I got fixed up right.

If they tell you no, you can always ask why, and it may be due to some misinformation. I'm not suggesting to buck the system, but oftentimes a statistical comparison between skydiving and motorcycle riding does the trick. I also put up my chit for riding a motorcycle and never had issues there either.

To me, it's worth covering my butt in case anything bad happens. I wouldn't want there to be some reason that my family has to get into an argument over SGLI payout while they are dealing with the fact that they have to bury me.

Thanks for your service,
V/R
Thomas

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I'm in Okinawa for a few more weeks and under any IIIMEF unit, we are not allowed to jump of any kind (base, skydive). My last SgtMaj came out to watch me a few years ago when I was going through AFF the first time, and he ended doing a tandem.

I'll be home in a few weeks from Oki all to start AFF all over again.

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When I was in the Air Force, we had a high-risk activity worksheet that we had to go over with the commander.

Its purpose was to make you think through the activity and give the commander a chance to document what you went over, i.e. wearing a helmet and protective clothing when you ride a motorcycle. The Navy might have something like this. Talk to your unit safety guy.

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That's too bad. I was the treasurer for the Okinawa sport club in '94 and '95 and because we were MWR sponsored, we were given a monthly helicopter slot of 4 hours and use of the LZ on IeShima. Sure was fun jumping '53's and '46's on the militaries dime!

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TriGirl

***I don't know about the Navy, but you don't need any special permission in the Army. In fact, outdoor adventure sports are highly encouraged at all levels, and many of them are more hazardous than skydiving.

As for whether it would be considered "in the line of Duty" or not, as long as it is a regulated DZ, and you follow all of the rules of the regulating authority (USPA, BPA, DFV, whatever), there would be no issues.

It would be marked not in the line of duty only if you were: outside of the mileage area without a pass/leave, violating the sport/dz regulations, you were not at your appointed place of duty (playing hookie from work), or you were explicitly ordered not to for some extraordinary reason.

I heard that from the Horses' mouth, i.e. my local JAG Admin Lawyer.



^^This.^^ And someone's comment about not doing it if you were specifically told not to. While in flight school, we were told not to SCUBA, skydive, or ride motor cross (funny, they didn't say anything about street bikes). You wouldn't get in trouble if you were caught doing those things, but because we were told not to do them while in flight school, you could lose benefits if you died because of it. You also WOULD get in trouble if injuries suffered during one of those activities caused you to go "med down" (or worse, NPQ). Both of the above are absolutely correct and I say this as an old fart Army colonel with 28 years in. There is an ongoing myth I keep running into that somehow you need permission from the chain of command to skydive. It's simply not true, any more than you would need permission to go bowling. It's a legitimate recreational activity and it's not illegal. In some military school situations you may be required to curtail high risk activities so that you don't risk getting dropped for an off duty injury, but that's the only instance I know of. I have also read and done a number of line of duty investigations, to include sport parachute accidents. They were always considered in line of duty.

CDR

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Not sure on the Army side, but unless there is a newer version out, OPNAVINST 5100.25B:

d. High-risk recreational activities. This identifies those
non-mission related activities that may present an elevated risk of serious injury or death to the participant and bystanders, and could receive a risk assessment code (RAC) of 1 or 2 based upon the individual circumstances of each undertaking. Examples of recreational activities that may be considered high-risk, based upon individual circumstances of each undertaking, include, but are not limited to: skydiving, rock and mountain climbing, cliff diving, scuba diving, hunting, bull riding, racing motorized vehicles, boating, boxing, bungee jumping, air ballooning, motorcycle riding, and parasailing. Operating a privately owned vehicle for local transportation purposes and routine home auto repairs generally does not fall into the category of high-risk recreational activities.

NOTE:

All recreational activities should be
reviewed to determine whether they fall into
a high-risk category. Appropriate safety
precautions should be implemented for those
that do. Members shall consult their command
policy on high-risk recreational activities
before engaging in any recreational
activities that are high-risk and receive a
RAC 1 or 2 per reference (j).


Ref (j) - OPNAVINST 3500.39C - ORM policy
This gives the guidelines for how to do ORM. While it doesn't explicitly cite an individual requirement for ORM submission for things like skydiving, it establishes commands as having the authority for requiring such. I still think it's simply a matter of submitting your ORM plan to your chain of command and then you're done. I think the CO can generally say no to whatever you are going to do, but he had better have a good reason, and a quick perusal of the instructions suggests he shouldn't.

My advice - best to submit the ORM chit as your notice of intent and a "cover your butt" in case something goes south.

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