AFFI 0 #1 January 12, 2006 Recently a jumper in the 1 year 100 jump range was observed on the airplane with a misrouted chest strap. It was pointed out by an instructor quietly because he did not want to embarrass this skydiver, then the 100 jump wonder looked at it and (in sort) did not see a problem with it which necessitated a little more attention given and some retraining. The jumper with the misrouted cheststrap then arrogantly commented something like - “I would have noticed it in freefall, rolled onto my back and fixed it then”. Is it possible that this person has been jumping often with a misrouted chest strap? First off I wonder is it just arrogance or a lack or appreciation for the potential ramifications for making mistakes or merely apathy drawn on by the fact that skydiving accidents are few and far between? A gear check in freefall just doesn’t sound like a good idea to me. Secondly I wonder how people that have noticed their chest strap misrouted in freefall have dealt with the situation. Even if it was noticed at a high altitude it seems to me like it would be difficult to route. So if there is anyone out there willing to admit they screwed the pooch publicly and survived by managing to remain in the harness during opening shock – how did you do it? Reminder: everyone look and others gear on the airplane during ascent and look for problems. Everyone makes mistakes...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #2 January 12, 2006 The only person that I _personally_ know that discovered it in freefall fought with it until his Cypres fired and saved his life. It took him the whole way down from the time it was discovered to get it routed. The only other case I know of is someone cinching it down while on the camera-step of an otter.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #3 January 12, 2006 Quote Reminder: everyone look and others gear on the airplane during ascent and look for problems. Everyone makes mistakes... I just saw a jumper make this same mistake when jumping last Saturday, ... It was hard to notice due to the way his excess strap was stowed, but I do have a habit of checking the jumpers around me during the climb to altitude. Luckly the guy that I saw realized how serious this was, and I'm sure that's a mistake that he will not soon forget ... It's scary for me to think how a simple mistake such as this could change the outcome of a jump so quickly. I check my 3 3's a few times each jump, 3 rings, 3 straps, 3 handles, and thankfully last week, I also check other peoples too.. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #4 January 12, 2006 I have a friend, an experienced jumper, who told me he jumped twice without a chest strap when he first started jumping (and lived, obviously). I think he noticed it in freefall and just brought his arms together in front of him after pulling, or something.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feeblemind 1 #5 January 12, 2006 I have only been jumping for a year and I have caught four, yes I said four mis-routed chest straps in the plane in the last three months, two of which were above 10,000 ft. My friend that got me into skydiving did a hybrid with some friends. He grabbed the others chest straps and went into a stand, we'll you guessed it - one of the chest straps pulled out due to being mis routed. As my buddy was trying to communicate with the other jumper, they were all smiles as they were having a good time. Well their eyes damn near hit the back of their goggles when he finally pulled the chest starp out in front of the individual. Since he is an accomplished jumper he flipped the individual onto their back, routed the chest strap behind the main hardware (yes similiar to being mis-routed) rapped the long end of the webbing several times around the portion that crossed the jumpers chest, placed the thier hand on the wrapps and screamed "don't let go" backed away and gave the pull sign. Deployment went witout incident and jumper landed safely. Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdfreefly 1 #6 January 12, 2006 I did it at Quincy once. I was rushing to make the king air, and since the ride up was so short, I never noticed it until freefall. I dumped and grabbed each shoulder with the opposite hand. I was also jumping a spectre at the time, so the opening was fortunately quite soft. I grounded myself for the rest of the day, and since, I've become a bit of a chest strap nazi. My favorite is to look for someone with low jump numbers running to meet the plane in the boarding area. I would say 3 times out of ten, you'll find something wrong with their gear, be it a twisted legstrap or a misrouted cheststrap. Keep your eyes open! Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,731 #7 January 12, 2006 I once jumped with a misrouted chest strap, when I had about 30 jumps. It was during a 10-way at the Ranch. I didn't notice anything wrong until I opened and heard the clink of the friction adapter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #8 January 12, 2006 ***then the 100 jump wonder looked at it and (in sort) did not see a problem with it which necessitated a little more attention given and some retraining. Did you forget where you came from??? you were a 100 jump wonder once. Are you expunged from mistakes because you have 1000's of jumps, yes your #'s do qualify you to comment, do it with grace without the attitude. I can't wait for this response!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarcusS 0 #9 January 12, 2006 OK, I've just got to ask this question (which hopefully I can get away with as a novice!), but how is it possible to mis-route a chest strap? I've been thinking about it, and don't see how it is physically possible! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #10 January 12, 2006 Put it through the buckle once, but forget to loop it through the buckle. It should be fairly obvious to anyone else. Just get someone to have a quick once over your gear every time you get on the plane. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarcusS 0 #11 January 12, 2006 Ah, I see. Buckle not done up! I could see how that would be a problem. I was tought to tug on my chest strap after doing it up, and a tug on each others chest strap is part of our flightline check, so hopefully this shouldn't be a problem. Thank for that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efex 0 #12 January 12, 2006 Hey Firstime, I think your quoting the wrong bit there. The bit that makes this guy an asshat and a 100 jump wonder was the following response: QuoteThe jumper with the misrouted cheststrap then arrogantly commented something like - “I would have noticed it in freefall, rolled onto my back and fixed it then”. Is it possible that this person has been jumping often with a misrouted chest strap? Marc Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #13 January 12, 2006 we have to be signed off at manifest as having had a check before we walk out to the plane, obviously only you are responsible for your kit but surely someone should be asking the guy who checked him some questions aswell. has anyone actually ever died from falling out of their harness for this reason? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #14 January 12, 2006 I think i remember reading in the incident forum some time ago about a guy who noticed it in freefall, but merely reached over with his left hand, grabbed the right mudflap/webbing and pulled and was ok. Anyone else remember this? I could be wrong, but i have it in my head from a misrouted chest strap incident i read about in there. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #15 January 12, 2006 Sorry guys I need some description of what is been talk about here, you either secure your cheststrap or not, how can you misroute the cheststrap but just giving the webbing a twist and passing it thru the locking housing this will only make it harder to release, I'm sure I'm getting the wrong picture here!!!! anyone? I have jump with loose cheststrap which is dangerous during the frefall but is not nothing that pulling the cheststrap won't fix since is passing thru the housing or locking system. Anyone with a pic?http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #16 January 12, 2006 At about 30 jumps, Eric Topps - a dutch AFF instructor who is in and around here comes up to me, sticks his finge behind my chest strap, pulls ever so lightly, and the misrouted strap comes out. It's hanging there and he says in his Dutch accent, "that gonna saave yoh live?" That had an impact on me. What if he didn't see that? Good practice to get to the DZ and religiously turn on AAD, check reserve pin, and rest of gear then... do point check before getting on the plane and before getting out of the plane. It takes less than ten seconds. chest leg leg hacky pin cutaway reserve ...if anyone can add to this please do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ntrprnr 0 #17 January 12, 2006 Quotechest leg leg hacky pin cutaway reserve ...if anyone can add to this please do. Helmet Altimeter Goggles Rule of 3's 3 rings 3 rings 3 metals (chest, leg, leg) 3 others (goggles, altimeter, helmet) (and yes, I reealize the helmet is optional for some of you.)_______________ "Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?" "Even in freefall, I have commitment issues." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NelKel 0 #18 January 12, 2006 The only one I know of resulted in a fatality._________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vt1977 0 #19 January 12, 2006 QuoteRule of 3's When I do my pre-exit gear check (I'm in the UK and we do full gear checks on all jumpers regardless of experience before boarding the aircraft) I say to myself (and visually check or feel for): 3 rings 3 attachment points (leg, leg, chest) 3 handles (main, cutaway, reserve) I will then also get someone to do a visual check of my pin as well. Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,343 #20 January 12, 2006 Quotethen the 100 jump wonder looked at it and (in sort) did not see a problem with it which necessitated a little more attention given and some retraining. ------ Did you forget where you came from??? you were a 100 jump wonder once. Are you expunged from mistakes because you have 1000's of jumps, yes your #'s do qualify you to comment, do it with grace without the attitude. If someone with 100 jumps cannot see that their chest strap is misrouted after it has been pointed out to them then they are in need of some retraining. It's not done to embarrass them, it's done to make them safe. If you think there's anything wrong with that then you're the one that needs to lose your attitude.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #21 January 12, 2006 QuoteDid you forget where you came from??? you were a 100 jump wonder once. Are you expunged from mistakes because you have 1000's of jumps, yes your #'s do qualify you to comment, do it with grace without the attitude. Throughout the course so far, I have made many grievous errors in life from skydiving to racing high performance motorcycles to military service, little league baseball and everything in between. Have I ever gotten on the airplane missing something? You bet (goggles altimeter stuff like that) but not anything overlooked with gear, at least not yet (I am only human, we make mistakes) – and whenever I have to use the “dumb ass” goggles did I hear about it the rest of the day from my friends? Hell yes. Was I ever a 100 jump wonder? Hell yes! Getting to the 100 jump mark was a big accomplishment for me as it may be for many others out there. Something that happened to me very recently was my chest strap was routed through my goggles (they ware hanging from my chest strap but I was in a hurry). I have never disconnected my chest strap on the airplane for any reason – did I arrogantly take care of it myself since I have an abundance of experience? Nope.. I asked the person sitting in the best position in the plane to watch me and double check me and make sure I did not make a mistake, I figured 4 eyes were better than 2 and then I went back into my normal routine by asking for a gear check before exit because I am not in the habit of relying solely on self checks on the airplane If you will take notice of one important fact about my reporting of this occurrence I did not mention this person’s gender, race, nationality or religion. No need for personal attacks. A few posts down efex pointed out the nature of the problem which was this person’s attitude, being arrogant and not teachable having an answer or excuse for everything. So that is what I was pointing out, not a personal attack at all. A 100 jump wonder is still a 100 jump wonder, a maggot is still a maggot and a skydiver that has it all figured out and is not teachable has the greater possibility of stuffing a pine box than one who is prepared, trains for situations and remains humbly teachable. This might stem from apathy or arrogance but irregardless of the nature an individuals character defects the fact of the matter is that skydiving teaches us a lot about life and affords us the opportunity to better ourselves in manners that will manifest into other areas of our lives. Hopefully this person will become more teachable. Hope this helps to clear thing up and clarify the absence of self righteous indignation.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JumpRu 14 #22 January 12, 2006 Response you getting sometimes, after you catch stuff like this is really priceless. I was visiting one DZ and it was only 3 of us in that 182 so I saw a misrouted chest strap on a jump run, point it out to the guy, he looked at it, routed it correctly, yelled something like “thanks dude!” and jump out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lisamariewillbe 1 #23 January 12, 2006 Its even worse to tell a major up-jumper that their strap is mis-routed when you have less then 100 jumps... it went something like this 51 jump # - "I think your chest strap is wrong" 2300 jump # guy "so says the 100 jump wonder" 51 jump # "just look, asshole" 2300 jump# " oh ummm sorry....thanks" 51 jump # "no problem"Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #24 January 12, 2006 A team I was coaching had a member with a chest strap undone. Video of the dive shows it clearly flapping about during the dive. He never knew it was not fastened till he landed. He was lucky. Others in the same situation have died. If I ever find myself in freefall I will grab the right side of my harness with my left and pitch, then hug myself and try to grab the right side before opening shock....I will also try and sit back as fast as possible to take the opening shock on my legs, not my chest. For the record, I have been stupid enough to climb out without it done once. I had about 30 jumps and someone caught it and pulled me back in."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #25 January 12, 2006 Often times a very good subject is raised in these forums that stimulate thought provoking discourse that allow for an environment were learning from one another can take place and all too often the communication gets side tracked by bickering over political correctness or semantics. Let’s not collectively forget what this string of postings is about and that is finding out how individuals have coped with a misrouted cheststrap in freefall. It is interesting so far to hear how others have survived this error and I am beginning to wonder if it more common than I initially suspected, some perhaps even having jumped this way without even realizing it. Lisamarie raises a very good point that no matter how “experienced”, people can still make mistakes and we are all here to watch each others backs. So did the 2300 jumper at least buy the 51 jumper a beer?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 1 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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ntrprnr 0 #17 January 12, 2006 Quotechest leg leg hacky pin cutaway reserve ...if anyone can add to this please do. Helmet Altimeter Goggles Rule of 3's 3 rings 3 rings 3 metals (chest, leg, leg) 3 others (goggles, altimeter, helmet) (and yes, I reealize the helmet is optional for some of you.)_______________ "Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?" "Even in freefall, I have commitment issues." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #18 January 12, 2006 The only one I know of resulted in a fatality._________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #19 January 12, 2006 QuoteRule of 3's When I do my pre-exit gear check (I'm in the UK and we do full gear checks on all jumpers regardless of experience before boarding the aircraft) I say to myself (and visually check or feel for): 3 rings 3 attachment points (leg, leg, chest) 3 handles (main, cutaway, reserve) I will then also get someone to do a visual check of my pin as well. Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,343 #20 January 12, 2006 Quotethen the 100 jump wonder looked at it and (in sort) did not see a problem with it which necessitated a little more attention given and some retraining. ------ Did you forget where you came from??? you were a 100 jump wonder once. Are you expunged from mistakes because you have 1000's of jumps, yes your #'s do qualify you to comment, do it with grace without the attitude. If someone with 100 jumps cannot see that their chest strap is misrouted after it has been pointed out to them then they are in need of some retraining. It's not done to embarrass them, it's done to make them safe. If you think there's anything wrong with that then you're the one that needs to lose your attitude.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #21 January 12, 2006 QuoteDid you forget where you came from??? you were a 100 jump wonder once. Are you expunged from mistakes because you have 1000's of jumps, yes your #'s do qualify you to comment, do it with grace without the attitude. Throughout the course so far, I have made many grievous errors in life from skydiving to racing high performance motorcycles to military service, little league baseball and everything in between. Have I ever gotten on the airplane missing something? You bet (goggles altimeter stuff like that) but not anything overlooked with gear, at least not yet (I am only human, we make mistakes) – and whenever I have to use the “dumb ass” goggles did I hear about it the rest of the day from my friends? Hell yes. Was I ever a 100 jump wonder? Hell yes! Getting to the 100 jump mark was a big accomplishment for me as it may be for many others out there. Something that happened to me very recently was my chest strap was routed through my goggles (they ware hanging from my chest strap but I was in a hurry). I have never disconnected my chest strap on the airplane for any reason – did I arrogantly take care of it myself since I have an abundance of experience? Nope.. I asked the person sitting in the best position in the plane to watch me and double check me and make sure I did not make a mistake, I figured 4 eyes were better than 2 and then I went back into my normal routine by asking for a gear check before exit because I am not in the habit of relying solely on self checks on the airplane If you will take notice of one important fact about my reporting of this occurrence I did not mention this person’s gender, race, nationality or religion. No need for personal attacks. A few posts down efex pointed out the nature of the problem which was this person’s attitude, being arrogant and not teachable having an answer or excuse for everything. So that is what I was pointing out, not a personal attack at all. A 100 jump wonder is still a 100 jump wonder, a maggot is still a maggot and a skydiver that has it all figured out and is not teachable has the greater possibility of stuffing a pine box than one who is prepared, trains for situations and remains humbly teachable. This might stem from apathy or arrogance but irregardless of the nature an individuals character defects the fact of the matter is that skydiving teaches us a lot about life and affords us the opportunity to better ourselves in manners that will manifest into other areas of our lives. Hopefully this person will become more teachable. Hope this helps to clear thing up and clarify the absence of self righteous indignation.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JumpRu 14 #22 January 12, 2006 Response you getting sometimes, after you catch stuff like this is really priceless. I was visiting one DZ and it was only 3 of us in that 182 so I saw a misrouted chest strap on a jump run, point it out to the guy, he looked at it, routed it correctly, yelled something like “thanks dude!” and jump out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #23 January 12, 2006 Its even worse to tell a major up-jumper that their strap is mis-routed when you have less then 100 jumps... it went something like this 51 jump # - "I think your chest strap is wrong" 2300 jump # guy "so says the 100 jump wonder" 51 jump # "just look, asshole" 2300 jump# " oh ummm sorry....thanks" 51 jump # "no problem"Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #24 January 12, 2006 A team I was coaching had a member with a chest strap undone. Video of the dive shows it clearly flapping about during the dive. He never knew it was not fastened till he landed. He was lucky. Others in the same situation have died. If I ever find myself in freefall I will grab the right side of my harness with my left and pitch, then hug myself and try to grab the right side before opening shock....I will also try and sit back as fast as possible to take the opening shock on my legs, not my chest. For the record, I have been stupid enough to climb out without it done once. I had about 30 jumps and someone caught it and pulled me back in."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #25 January 12, 2006 Often times a very good subject is raised in these forums that stimulate thought provoking discourse that allow for an environment were learning from one another can take place and all too often the communication gets side tracked by bickering over political correctness or semantics. Let’s not collectively forget what this string of postings is about and that is finding out how individuals have coped with a misrouted cheststrap in freefall. It is interesting so far to hear how others have survived this error and I am beginning to wonder if it more common than I initially suspected, some perhaps even having jumped this way without even realizing it. Lisamarie raises a very good point that no matter how “experienced”, people can still make mistakes and we are all here to watch each others backs. So did the 2300 jumper at least buy the 51 jumper a beer?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
