Capital Punishment

[jakee 975]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Sky,

Re:   beyond a shadow of a doubt

I believe that in most states the standard is 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'

That makes is rather subjective.

Jerry Baumchen

Read to me like she was talking about a sentencing decision, life in prison or death row.

 

Although that doesn’t really make sense.

Edited December 20, 2022 by jakee

[Coreece 172]

36 minutes ago, jakee said:

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Sky,

Re:   beyond a shadow of a doubt

I believe that in most states the standard is 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'

That makes is rather subjective.

Jerry Baumchen

Read to me like she was talking about a sentencing decision, life in prison or death row.

 

Although that doesn’t really make sense.

My gut feeling is that justice was probably served, but at the same time I'm like wtf did I just read?

[Baksteen 84]

On 12/15/2022 at 9:01 PM, riggerrob said:

Dear Stumpy,

Execution is more expensive than life in prison because ^%$#@! lawyers drive up the cost of execution with lengthy mandatory appeals, etc.

^%$#@! lawyers also drive up the cost by trying to make execution "humane." I suspect that "humane" means less trauma for prison staff ... the same reason that the SS switched to gas chambers during World War 2. It seems that too many SS prison guards suffered PTSD when they simply shot Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, communists, political prisoners, etc.

Hah! Compared with what? Compared with the ways that their victims suffered?

Police and soldiers have long had rifles capable of executing someone quickly and inexpensively.

I believe that a handful of the worst serial killers deserve execution because they are too crazy to ever be rehabilitated.

The rank and file of the German army - even of the SS - weren't all psychopaths (though far too many of them were).

Also, the person giving the order for mass-murder is not necessarily the person being forced to actually perpetrate it.

[skybytch 253]

On 12/20/2022 at 10:56 AM, jakee said:

Read to me like she was talking about a sentencing decision, life in prison or death row.

 

Although that doesn’t really make sense.

Sentencing decision,  yes. Original jury found the defendant guilty but deadlocked on the penalty  so we got it.

The legal standard may be reasonable doubt, but sitting in that jury room making a decision of that gravity there needed to be no doubt at all for any of us to go home and sleep well.

[JoeWeber 1,853]

37 minutes ago, skybytch said:

Sentencing decision,  yes. Original jury found the defendant guilty but deadlocked on the penalty  so we got it.

The legal standard may be reasonable doubt, but sitting in that jury room making a decision of that gravity there needed to be no doubt at all for any of us to go home and sleep well.

Bingo. You get an extra cookie tonight. It is all about going home and sleeping well. It doesn't matter if it's a jury decision, banning hook turns, cutting into traffic to make your turn, or taking the last piece of pizza. Every last decision we make in life goes to bed with us. That's the bottom line.

[rifleman 50]

“It is said to be a deterrent. I cannot agree. There have been murders since the beginning of time, and we shall go on looking for deterrents until the end of time. I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over responsibility for revenge to other people.”
- Albert Pierrepoint, Official Executioner in the UK

During his career as Official Executioner, Pierrepoint was responsible for between 420 and 550 hangings including several Nazis after Nuremberg. The son and nephew of hangmen, he spent a large number of years engaged in the business and came to the above view after having to hang a regular who came into his pub. The man knew who Pierrepoint was, and what he did (it was an open secret) and yet still went on to commit murder.

 

[kallend 1,340]

14 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Bingo. You get an extra cookie tonight. It is all about going home and sleeping well. It doesn't matter if it's a jury decision, banning hook turns, cutting into traffic to make your turn, or taking the last piece of pizza. Every last decision we make in life goes to bed with us. That's the bottom line.

It's nothing to do with sleeping well.  The state should not be in the business of killing its citizens - period.

[JoeWeber 1,853]

11 hours ago, kallend said:

It's nothing to do with sleeping well.  The state should not be in the business of killing its citizens - period.

Professor, the observation was less narrowed than your grade would indicate. I can only hope you where more open minded when you actually had the power of grading.

[kallend 1,340]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Professor, the observation was less narrowed than your grade would indicate. I can only hope you where more open minded when you actually had the power of grading.

Why should I be open minded about the state killing its citizens?  It is simply wrong.

[BIGUN 991]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

state killing its citizens?

Since 1973, over 156 people have been released from death rows in 26 states because of innocence.  Nationally, at least one person is exonerated for every 10 that are executed.  

[JoeWeber 1,853]

9 hours ago, kallend said:

Why should I be open minded about the state killing its citizens?  It is simply wrong.

The post was about the standard for any decision; being able to sleep well afterwards seems a very good benchmark to me. Indeed her post was about not voting to kill him even though he likely deserved it. 

[jakee 975]

7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Since 1973, over 156 people have been released from death rows in 26 states because of innocence.  Nationally, at least one person is exonerated for every 10 that are executed.  

And exonerating people is really ridiculously difficult, even with cast iron evidence.

[kallend 1,340]

Pertinent article:

A Year of Botched Executions

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/12/botched-executions-alabama-witness/672578/

 

As far as I'm concerned all arguments along the lines of "it isn't a perfect system", "exoneration is difficult", "it's irreversible, what if you get it wrong", etc. are moot.  States simply should not be in the business of killing their citizens.

 

[JerryBaumchen 867]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

Pertinent article:

A Year of Botched Executions

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/12/botched-executions-alabama-witness/672578/

 

As far as I'm concerned all arguments along the lines of "it isn't a perfect system", "exoneration is difficult", "it's irreversible, what if you get it wrong", etc. are moot.  States simply should not be in the business of killing their citizens.

 

Hi John,

You have posted this statement a number of times.

To me, it is sort of like that a woman, and only a woman, should have the choice over what happens to her body:  WE CANNOT SAY IT TOO MUCH!!!!!!

Jerry Baumchen

[BIGUN 991]

On 12/24/2022 at 8:37 AM, kallend said:

As far as I'm concerned all arguments along the lines of "it isn't a perfect system", "exoneration is difficult", "it's irreversible, what if you get it wrong", etc. are moot.  States simply should not be in the business of killing their citizens.

They're not moot. They're some of the reasons, "States simply should not be in the business of killing their citizens."

[Coreece 172]

11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

"States simply should not be in the business of killing their citizens."

From what I've heard, it sounds more like an expensive hobby.

[airdvr 183]

The possibility of an error outweighs whatever perceived deterrent the death penalty brings.  Most murders are an act of passion or anger and I doubt the perp ever stops and considers capital punishment.

For me being caged for the rest of my life would be far worse than being put to death.

[The Hundredth Monkey 5]

Trump is Running on a platform of execution for Drug Trafficking (Pfizer/Felchi) and Human trafficking (WEF degenerate initiations)...

Hang half a dozen of these cretins publicly, and you watch eh entire place clean itself up in no time.

If we can talk Euthanasia, we can talk capital punishment..

[The Hundredth Monkey 5]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:15 AM, airdvr said:

The possibility of an error outweighs whatever perceived deterrent the death penalty brings.  Most murders are an act of passion or anger and I doubt the perp ever stops and considers capital punishment.

For me being caged for the rest of my life would be far worse than being put to death.

for someone with nothing, it is free rent, food and healthcare...

[BIGUN 991]

8 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

for someone with nothing,

Something's better than nothing
Just a little blessing, a little reason why
We should keep going 'cause we never know when
What we've been waiting for and praying for
Is around the corner coming
Something's better than nothing
Yeah, something's better than nothing

These four walls ain't no castle but this shack
Will be enough to let our life grow

[nigel99 104]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:15 PM, airdvr said:

The possibility of an error outweighs whatever perceived deterrent the death penalty brings.  Most murders are an act of passion or anger and I doubt the perp ever stops and considers capital punishment.

For me being caged for the rest of my life would be far worse than being put to death.

I agree, murder is typically driven by emotion and I'm not sure that severity of punishment plays much of a part in deterring murders.

I believe that capital punishment should be reserved for individuals where there is no hope of rehabilitation. Less focus on the crime and more on the person and what circumstances surrounded the crime.

We had a local skydiver in the news about 2 years ago. he shot and killed a bike gang leader at a crowded sporting event, it was a hired hit with no emotion involved. That is a far cry from a man or woman who is in severe distress emotionally in a relationship breakdown and 'loses it'

[riggerrob 497]

Yes, sociopathic repeat killers who are beyond rehabilitation, deserve execution.

Hired killers probably also deserve the death penalty.

[SkyDekker 897]

15 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Hired killers probably also deserve the death penalty.

So like soldiers?

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadian-special-forces-involved-in-u-s-military-team-accused-of-killing-scores-of-innocent-people-in-iraq-syria

[riggerrob 497]

56 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

So like soldiers?

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadian-special-forces-involved-in-u-s-military-team-accused-of-killing-scores-of-innocent-people-in-iraq-syria

If you read the details of that story, most of the civilian casualties were "collaterol damage" from air-strikes called in by American and Canadian special forces fighting in Syria.

Collateral damage has always happened - in every war.

These civilian deaths were not individually targeted, much less shot by individual soldiers.

That many (claimed) casualties requires that their chain of command needs to answer some embarrassing questions. Generals need to publically define rules of engagement, etc.

Finally, keep in mind that ISIS, daesch, Iranian Islamic Republican Guard, etc. have never read the Geneva Convention, much less pretend to follow its guidelines (e.g. limit civilian casualties).

See Dillon Hillier's book "One Soldier" about battlefield conditions in the Kurdish areas of Northern Iraq and Syria circa 2015.

[SkyDekker 897]

3 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

most of the civilian casualties were "collaterol damage"

Meaning some were not and were therefor killed by people trained and paid to kill. Which would make them subject to the death penalty according to you.