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jf951

Exiting commercial flight in the event of a emergency

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This is just one of those late night thoughts I'm sure we've all had at one point so I'll post it and hope we can have an interesting and some what civilized discussion about it.

So here's the scenario:
You're flying commercial you have your rig as a carry on, the AC you're on has a catastrophic failure, ie much more than just an engine out.
Would you make an attempt to get out?
Jump more, Bitch less.

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I probably would at least try to get to my rig but if it really is some catastrophic failure I doubt I'd succeed. Either the plane depressurizes and you're out pretty much immediately or the plane is coming down violently and getting to your rig, getting it on and getting out of plane might be near impossible.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

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Near impossible.....but.

On the one flight the pilot got slung/sucked out the front window. Others held on to him, halfway out the plane, more for fear he would blow up the engines, rather than for his life. Quick decent and coldness etc, he actually survived it.

You are going to be suspect #1 when you are the only person on a flight surviving, and also used a parachute to land it.

Time, cold, oxygen, g-force and space would be constraints. (and if you are over the ocean...)
You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

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pretty tough without bail out bottles, thermal protection and then there's the issue of getting out of a plane at over 250kts...

Above 30k ft you're looking at being unconscious in seconds rather than minutes and -50deg F, which means exposed skin flash freezes.

Mind the trailing edge of the door and know that if you have a premie you're gonna not only blow your canopy up but also die from the g-forces of an opening at that speed.

Maybe if the plane had issues right before/after landing/takeoff. But still unlikely.

It is fun to carry on a rig and have someone recognize what it is though... Have really freaked some people out.

Another poster brought up a good point about being suspect numero uno. Hadn't thought of that. Also-if the plane had any chance at all of being landed (i.e. both wings still on) and you bailed out of it, you'd feel pretty stupid if the pilots landed it somewhere safely.


-Harry
"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

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Over the years I've considered this scenario. I've reached the conclusion that when a commercial aircraft that I am currently a passenger on has a catastrophic failure that would be survivable only by exiting I'm gonna be real PO'd that I don't have my rig.

This all started years ago when I read about the Soviet shootdown of the KAL flight 007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Missile_damage_to_plane

I thought I read somewhere that the elapsed time from missile impact to crash was ~12 minutes. [:/] That's a hella long time.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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With no body, you probably gonna wait for the payout.....about 5years.

In the mean time, borrow your brother's credit card. B|B|B|



PS. Congrats on the SO dude.
You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

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I think it is mostly just a skydivers daydream, but not something very realistic.

If it is a catastrophic failure, getting out of your seat, getting rigged up and out of the door I think are pretty slim. I wouldn't expect a calm 1G environment with the plane straight and level if it was truly catastrophic or otherwise a situation that you would be better staying with the plane. I'd expect it to be pretty violent.

They may be a few others, but the one that does come to mind where someone in the right place may have been able to get out was TWA-800. Wasn't super high, as I remember the wings stayed level after the nose left and it climbed significantly. Might of had the time and stability to get gear, and had the opening to get out of.

In general when I fly with my rig, I understand that if the plane goes down I'll be just like the other poor bastards on the plane, except I'll have a special news story pointing out and questioning the irony of being the guy who died in a crash but had a parachute.

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potatoman


You are going to be suspect #1 when you are the only person on a flight surviving, and also used a parachute to land it.



That would be the least of my worries. :D

Now the world record Mr Bill with 50 people from 35K would be a story to tell...

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the_raven

Imagine what all of the other passengers will do when they see you putting a rig on.... will probably get mobbed first IMO.



Sit in the very back of the airplane where no one would see you, on the aisle where you could grab your carryon.. ALSO it is the strongest portion of the airframe back where the aft pressure bulkhead resides.. There just happens to be a door or two back there too.

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/others/images/1998AM0010.jpg

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If you WEAR a rig, and you could make a no/little metal base type rig that would fit under clothing, you might be one of the lucky/unlucky ones that finds themselves in freefall after the breakup. IF low enough, slow enough (unlikely), and undamaged by explosion/extraction etc. you might be awake to open it.

Not a matter of putting a rig on and getting out. A matter of finding yourself in freefall with a rig on.


So, get your hideaway rig today!B|
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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It's so unlikely in a catastrophic failure that you could get your rig on, so I think the more interesting question, (although of course also totally unlikely) is what would you do with your 1-2 min of time if you found yourself in the air after some sort of event (say at a low enough alti (15k ft or so) that you could function.

I would:
1. Do some RW with the other people in the air. Dock on some unsuspecting person and yell in their ear, "We aren't going to make it!", or "Grab grass!"
2. Aim for the terrorists car.
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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councilman24

If you WEAR a rig, and you could make a no/little metal base type rig that would fit under clothing, you might be one of the lucky/unlucky ones that finds themselves in freefall after the breakup. IF low enough, slow enough (unlikely), and undamaged by explosion/extraction etc. you might be awake to open it.

Not a matter of putting a rig on and getting out. A matter of finding yourself in freefall with a rig on.


So, get your hideaway rig today!B|



Time of useful consciousness is not all that short at only 30,000 feet. It will be a tad chilly.... but severe frostbite beats the shit out of being high speed meat dart into the ground.

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Quote

... what would you do with your 1-2 min of time if you found yourself in the air after some sort of event



Well my attitude would be "It's not over until it's over" so I would be:

a) Looking for my rig - or someone else's rig :)b) Trying to figure out how to put it on while in free fall.

That is an interesting question. If you are in free-fall and have hold of a rig, could you actually put it on. I think I would try to put on just ONE leg strap and then try to get the straps over my shoulders, check altitude and if there is more time, try to tighten the check strap and then pull.

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Of all the large scale (i.e. twin jet and larger) commercial aviation disasters I have heard about there have only four where a passenger would have any chance of all at getting out:

1) Aloha Airlines flight 243. However it landed safely with only one death, so it would have been wiser to stay in your seat anyway.

2) Japan Air Lines flight 123 (a 747.) Lost most of its tail and then wallowed around for about half an hour before crashing; it may have been possible to exit through the tail.

3) TWA flight 800. It blew apart into two pieces, and the rear piece continued to fly for a few moments before stalling and falling into the sea. A passenger in the front section may have been able to exit if he was prepared. A passenger in the rear may have had time to get his rig on during the few moments of stable flight but given the fire damage to that section, survival is unlikely.

4) UA flight 811. It blew a cargo door and lost 9 people through the hole. It was stable until it landed, but again it would have been wiser to stay in the aircraft.

There have been a large number of aircraft which broke up in flight. These would not give time for passengers to put rigs on, but if they were already wearing them they may have survived since passengers (either in seats or separately) were ejected and found intact later.

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I don't know that you'd be able to get the door open. Plus there's the whole airspeed thing, odds of getting sucked into an engine or whanged by the tail, and the fact that they generally hang out at altitudes where a few seconds of exposure to the environment would be enough to knock you out if not kill you. That's not to say I couldn't imagine a few scenarios where it might be feasible, but they're extremely unlikely.

In the mean time I'll keep flying with my rig. Not because I think it could ever save my life on the flight, but because I don't want to check $8000+ worth of gear under the plane.
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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SethInMI

It's so unlikely in a catastrophic failure that you could get your rig on, so I think the more interesting question, (although of course also totally unlikely) is what would you do with your 1-2 min of time if you found yourself in the air after some sort of event (say at a low enough alti (15k ft or so) that you could function.

I would:
1. Do some RW with the other people in the air. Dock on some unsuspecting person and yell in their ear, "We aren't going to make it!", or "Grab grass!"
2. Aim for the terrorists car.



+1 on grab grass....I just know it will work.

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billvon

Of all the large scale (i.e. twin jet and larger) commercial aviation disasters I have heard about there have only four where a passenger would have any chance of all at getting out:

1) Aloha Airlines flight 243. However it landed safely with only one death, so it would have been wiser to stay in your seat anyway.

2) Japan Air Lines flight 123 (a 747.) Lost most of its tail and then wallowed around for about half an hour before crashing; it may have been possible to exit through the tail.

3) TWA flight 800. It blew apart into two pieces, and the rear piece continued to fly for a few moments before stalling and falling into the sea. A passenger in the front section may have been able to exit if he was prepared. A passenger in the rear may have had time to get his rig on during the few moments of stable flight but given the fire damage to that section, survival is unlikely.

4) UA flight 811. It blew a cargo door and lost 9 people through the hole. It was stable until it landed, but again it would have been wiser to stay in the aircraft.

There have been a large number of aircraft which broke up in flight. These would not give time for passengers to put rigs on, but if they were already wearing them they may have survived since passengers (either in seats or separately) were ejected and found intact later.




Hellios air, or whatever it was called. A greek flight that circled around for hours (?) because everyone got hypoxic on the plane.
Eventually it ran out of fuel and or crashed in to a mountain, can't remember which.

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Unfortunately, unless you've carried on a bail out bottle with you, and are attuned to your personal symptoms of hypoxia, you're still not getting out.

You're just sitting there with a rig in carry on above you grinning stupidly.


Hypoxia leaves pretty much NO higher reasoning. Certainly not enough to comprehend the ramifications of a hypoxic flight and then gearing up and exiting.


IMO exiting a commercial disaster is a skydivers fantasy.
You'd be torn apart the second you started putting on gear by other passengers, even if you had time, consciousness and a stable environment.


Your best hope is hoping you survive the breakup of the plan and using your freefall skills to aim for something relatively soft. Trees, snow, whatever.

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SethInMI

...what would you do with your 1-2 min of time if you found yourself in the air after some sort of event (say at a low enough alti (15k ft or so) that you could function.



Assuming I didn't have a rig on board:

1. Slow fall like my life depended on it and prepare to PLF into the softest looking object/area on the ground
2. Go for one last tracking dive and try to enjoy the view. At least when your buddies hear about you pounding in miles from the crash site they'll know you went out with a smile on your face.

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