Beech 18 and Turboliner

[extremeshannon 0]

I am looking for resources to make a jump plane out of a beech 18 and a turboliner. I have access to these 2 aircrafts and would like to make this happen. Probablly start with flying with door off and them move to a lexan roll up door. Any help would be great.

Thanks
Shannon

[JohnMitchell 14]

Beech 18, though not ideal, has been used for years.

What's a turboliner?

[councilman24 36]

I thought we were trying to get rid of beech 18s? To many jumps walking up the "aisle" to get the thing off the ground, watching the leaves get knocked off the trees at the end of the runway, listening to the stall warning all the way to altitude, stalls on jump run and ground loops on landing. But fun when you didn't know better. Going.to have to talk to the oldtimers for stc data and flight restrictions with door off.

If my search was right Turboliner is a trycle gear non-radial beech 18. Eliminate ground loops and.maybe some other.issues along with.radials spewing oil. May be better option but don't know if they've been.used before

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mccurley 0]

Good thing about the beach, if you lose one engine, the second one will take you directly to the sight of the crash.

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[Krip 2]

extremeshannon

I am looking for resources to make a jump plane out of a beech 18 and a turboliner. I have access to these 2 aircrafts and would like to make this happen. Probablly start with flying with door off and them move to a lexan roll up door. Any help would be great.

Thanks
Shannon

Hi

Checked your profile, you've only been around the sport 17 yrs.
Before you follow your dream, I suggest you do some research and check how many 18s and jumpers have been lost during jump operations.

With all respect remember your hauling humans not cargo.

One Jump Wonder

[GD64 1]

[PhreeZone 14]

There is one dropzone - Skydive Greene County www.skydiveohio.com- that is flying a WestWind version of the Beech every weekend so if you are looking for basic info they might be a good place to start. The DZO has been flying Beech's since the 70's and knows a ton about them.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Phree beat me to it.

I'd ride a trashcan lid into Hell if Jim West was at the controls.

[dpreguy 14]

Funny story. Cheap skydive Beech 18 owner made a big sorry-ass wooden door insert. Kinda heavy. Put it in on the ground, jerk it out when it was time to jump. Too bad one day someone forgot to put it in, then remembered and tried to put it in place on takeoff. (Pre seatbelt days) The guy fumbled the install and it fell out onto the runway. Had to radio the FBO and tell them to 'please pick it up'. Don't be that guy.

[dzswoop717 5]

Hands down, Jim West is the most knowlegeable person in the skydiving industry on the Beech 18.

[extremeshannon 0]

Thanks everyone. You are right I was not around when these were the hot plane to jump out of. This is the start to my research since I have an opportunity to utilize these aircrafts.

I do understand I am not hauling cargo and I am hauling humans hence these reason I start asking these questions to see if this is a viable options. I can not afford a caravan or otter so like any other dropzone if there is a way safely to use another aircraft then we may do that. There limited jump planes in Alaska.

Thanks for the info

Shannon

[PhreeZone 14]

Looking at options like a 182 or 206 might go further and there is a larger number of those in Alaska than about anywhere else!


I do know that the 18 with Turbines is said to be a very hard plane to even be able to get insured anymore. Look into the costs of those types of items also when looking at a plane since the hourly cost to fly might be low but the insurance will bankrupt you! You might be able to fly with out insurance but most airports are going to require it if you want to operate out of their facilities.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mattjw916 2]

Larry Hill has a Beech 18 at Eloy... I don't know if they fly it anymore but I jumped it many years ago. You could probably inquire there if you need additional info.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[riggerrob 558]

PhreeZone

Looking at options like a 182 or 206 might go further and there is a larger number of those in Alaska than about anywhere else!


I do know that the 18 with Turbines is said to be a very hard plane to even be able to get insured anymore. Look into the costs of those types of items also when looking at a plane since the hourly cost to fly might be low but the insurance will bankrupt you! You might be able to fly with out insurance but most airports are going to require it if you want to operate out of their facilities.

..................................................................................

Agreed!
While he may be able to pick up that Beech 18 Turboliner for cheap, the maintenance cost will kill his profit margin.
... and if he does to keep up with the maintenance, he had best hire "god's gift to pilots" ... because he will need that much skill to keep the passengers alive when he crashes.

Forget about any Beech with a tail-wheel, because insurance companies will refuse to insure any pilot less than a million hours of Twin-Beech tail-dragger time.

Bottom line: the original poster would be wiser to buy a single-engine Airvan, Beaver, Cessna, Kodiak, Porter, etc.

[extremeshannon 0]

PhreeZone

Looking at options like a 182 or 206 might go further and there is a larger number of those in Alaska than about anywhere else!

Thanks for the reply. We have a 206 running our operations and a leased 182. I am not looking to run the entire operation with a large aircraft. This will be as needed basis and to give everone a larger aircraft. These aircrafts are hanger with my planes and I have access to them. This is why I am inquiring about jump modifications to put into the big picture if it is feasable or not. Thanks for the input. I am not buying these aircrafts.

Shannon

[councilman24 36]

Hmm, Alaska may be the only place to find tail dragger pilots qualified to not ground loop a tail wheel 18. If they are there and flying it may be a way to go. Adding skydiving to whatever insurance is currently on them may be the killer.

IIRC you don't need any deflector or other modification to jump an 18 with the door off. We used to jump a cargo door 18 and don't think we had any kind of door. I was on the first load out of it after the cargo was put on and it was taking off to ferry to another airport for inspection.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[diablopilot 2]

I saw your location and thought, "Guys, this might be his only option up there! Besides, pilot's up there have got the "right stuff"."

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Krip 2]

PhreeZone

There is one dropzone - Skydive Greene County www.skydiveohio.com- that is flying a WestWind version of the Beech every weekend so if you are looking for basic info they might be a good place to start. The DZO has been flying Beech's since the 70's and knows a ton about them.

The Westwind mod on the origional twin beech is a beautiful airplane
Joe weber in oregon had one for a while that we got to jump out of, and Larry Hill also had one that he brought to the LP boogie with his DC 3. The westwinds climb like a express train.

My boss got to fly with Larry in the right hand seat in both directions, when we hooked back up she was beaming from ear to ear. Larry is like a lot of jump pilots he wants to beat the jumpers to the ground. Great amusement ride for a round trip pax.

Whats his name from southern oregon that did some jail time for losing to many students Had a modiefied twin beech called a Tailwind that he flew up to LP from sheriden with his posse. It was a real slug, still had reciprocating engines and only one vertical stabilezer.

I climbed so slow it wouldn't even make it to jump altitude and no one wanted to jump it. Like most radial recips it leaked oil like a pig.



for a while,

One Jump Wonder

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Robert,

Quote

Whats his name from southern oregon

That would be Ted Mayfield from northern Oregon.

Yup, she sure did leak oil. I jumped her many a time.

It had been converted to the one vertical rudder and into tricycle landing gear. Very easy to takeoff and land; no more ground loops.

JerryBaumchen

[Krip 2]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Robert,

Quote

Whats his name from southern oregon

That would be Ted Mayfield from northern Oregon.

Yup, she sure did leak oil. I jumped her many a time.

It had been converted to the one vertical rudder and into tricycle landing gear. Very easy to takeoff and land; no more ground loops.

But the oil was all over the exterior of the plane

At LP Ted needed help pushing the bird back into its parking slot.

Another jumper and I got drafted by Ted for a little muscle (how could we say no ) but as we were pushing it back we were joking to ea other this was as close as we ever wanted to get to that oil pig.

I'm guessing anyone anyone outside the acft in flight like front float was going
to have a jumpsuit that looked like a oil rag.

Even larry hill had a minor incident ground looping the westwind, I forget the reason but the only damage was the one of the front tire beads lost its seal. Quick fix.

For the OP I think he might consider looking into a pilatous porter. Kapow got their first turbine a sweet p. porter from Alaska. Only one engine to maintain, large exterior step, Stol, and a hi speed elevator to altitude.

I forget how many years they kept it but I'm guessing at least 3 to 4 than they up sized to the twin otter as business grew, then added a caravan because the dz became a magnet for jumpers from all over the pnw.

John Mitchell might know where the porter went. I'm not a pilot but imo the porter was a sweet jump plane for a jumper and might be a good choice for a dz depending on the business volume.

The porter of course is also a tail dragger. Get over it with the right pilot it shouldnt be a problem.


JerryBaumchen

One Jump Wonder

[Mickochet 0]

Have you thought about a Navajo? Our dropzone is getting ready to sell our Navajo to step up to a caravan. 10 Passenger turbo. There is also a beech 18 at our airport that was previously used for jump operations.

If you never fall down you aren't trying hard enough.

[extremeshannon 0]

Thanks for the info everyone. One point has seemed to be missed. I am not palnning on buying any aircraft. I am looking to use one or both of these aircraft on as needed basis since they are on the airport being used. These would not be my next aircraft of choice if I was in the market to buy another aircraft. Since the owner has approach me and said he thinks it would be great aircraft to use as a skydive aircraft I decided to look intio using them.
i.e.
how to config
how many people can they haul
can I fly with door off
any STC's out there
cost of lexan door
cost of seat belts

This is all to see if it would be worth using them. There is an operation with caravans on the airport and if I could get them to say yes I would rather persue that but don't think that will happen.


Thanks for the feedback
Shannon

[Krip 2]

See incident forum for the FAA final report on the twin beech that stalled on jump run and crashed. The report contains most of the criteria you may be looking for. And a short history of some of the twin beechs that have gone in the past.

To bad about the pilot Do you want to be that guy.

Sure is nice of the owner of the beech and turboliner to allow you to use his plane to haul human cargo. I'm sure he'll cut you a good price.And be able to collect on his insurance when the plane goes down.

One Jump Wonder

[mattjw916 2]

Everything has crashed at one point or another, even Otters. Not sure what your point is really.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[riggerrob 558]

If you are only going to rent them for the weekend and they come with experienced pilots and mechanics, that vastly simplifies your decision tree.

A Beech 18/Turboliner can haul 12 to 19 jumpers depending upon empty weight, gross weight and balance.

The best way to balance skydivers is to insist that they all wear seatbelts. Just clip the seat-belts onto existing cargo-tie-down-rings. Just ensure that they are the double-anchor type cargo tie-downs. Hint: ask Jack Hooker for a quote on seat-belts. (Hooker Harness in Illinois).

Beech 18s are approved for flight with the door removed.
Double-check the Turbo-liner manual, but I suspect that it is also okay to fly without the cargo door.