Christians don’t believe in Democracy

[Stumpy 284]

12 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Feelings are flimsy. They're not the basis for anything.

They're the basis for religion. 

You don't have anything else.

[Phil1111 1,142]

1 hour ago, Stumpy said:

They're the basis for religion. 

You don't have anything else.

Well he does have the book of distractions, aka the bible. A book that lays out in its various versions all the double-talk and duplicity to its readers. Like how god is kind and will still send people to enteral hell. How he knows all yet allows the torture of babies.

The same god that sets up televangelists to prey upon his "flocks".Matthew 19:24 famously says “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” – but they never said anything about private jets, right? Joel Osteen has a Airbus A319.

In 2017 Joel Osteen found his way into controversy again by denying shelter to local victims of Hurricane Harvey at his Houston megachurch. He covered up several lies about this event.

[jaybird18c 14]

15 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, most of the Branch Davidians believed that Koresh was the next Messiah. 

Most of them died (were martyred) for those beliefs.

Does that mean Koresh was trustworthy?

OTOH, many, many MANY child molestors are 'devout'.

A lot of them are 'leaders' in the church. 

Youth pastors, Sunday school teachers, even ministers and priests.

With all the current hatred towards the LGBTQ community, I've seen a bunch of "I'd rather have my kids hang out with Drag Queens than a Priest" mems out there. More than just a smidgeon of truth to that one.

In the 'show me the evidence' department, this simple basic fact:

So many 'men of God' are clearly scam artists and con men, sexual deviants and just plain awful people. The 'televangalists' are the worst, but not the only ones.
Yet I see no indication that 'God' has a problem with this.

You want me to believe in God?
Explain why he allows these guys to continue pretending to represent Him.

The world is full of charlatans. The day will come for them just like everyone else. "because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Plenty of people have died for what they strongly believed. Terrorists flew airplanes into the World Trade Center. They were committed to their religious belief and cause! However, I do not think they would have done that for a cause they knew was false. In other words, people aren't usually wiling to die for a lie, especially a horrific death. The great martyrs of the christian faith died for what they knew was true. What they had seen with their own eyes. That's trustworthiness!

The world is broken. It's full of bad things happening to all sorts of people all the time. If God ended it today, you would stand guilty before him and receive the just punishment you deserve. Because he allows this broken world to continue, you are given time to take advantage of the only good opportunity you have. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by jaybird18c

[JoeWeber 2,690]

2 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

The world is full of charlatans. The day will come for them just like everyone else. "because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Plenty of people have died for what they strongly believed. Terrorists flew airplanes into the World Trade Center. They were committed to their religious belief and cause! However, I do not think they would have done that for a cause they knew was false. In other words, people aren't usually wiling to die for a lie, especially a horrific death. The great martyrs of the christian faith did exactly that. That's trustworthiness!

The world is broken. It's full of bad things happening to all sorts of people all the time. If God ended it today, you would stand guilty before him and receive the just punishment you deserve. Because he allows this broken world to continue, you are given time to take advantage of the only good opportunity you have. 

Jay, that’s just plain silly. 

[jaybird18c 14]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Jay, that’s just plain silly. 

(1 Corinthians 1:18) For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Edited August 29, 2023 by jaybird18c

[olofscience 475]

9 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Because he allows this broken world to continue

And this is why, if He or She even exists, God sucks balls.

Luckily there's absolutely no evidence of existence of a god.

[gowlerk 2,162]

12 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

It's full of bad things happening to all sorts of people all the time. If God ended it today, you would stand guilty before him and receive the just punishment you deserve. Because he allows this broken world to continue, you are given time to take advantage of the only good opportunity you have. 

There you go with the threats and condescension. Again. Your god is a weakling and no match for mine.

[jakee 1,445]

39 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

The great martyrs of the christian faith died for what they knew was true. What they had seen with their own eyes. That's trustworthiness!

Is that it? Are you telling us that the reason you believe in god is that you have read a book that says a few people, a very long time ago, allowed themselves to be killed because they believed they had witnessed a miracle? Like is that, for you, the whole deal? The only thing that swings the needle?

[jakee 1,445]

44 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

The world is broken. It's full of bad things happening to all sorts of people all the time. If God ended it today, you would stand guilty before him and receive the just punishment you deserve.

Sure, but if that happened then at that point I'd clearly see and therefore believe that it's all true, so a just outcome would obviously get me the same thing as you.

 

I don't see the problem.

[normiss 767]

If an asteroid or global warming doesn't destroy the planet, gravitational forces will get us. This isn't on a random god created by stories written by man.

[jaybird18c 14]

35 minutes ago, jakee said:

Is that it? Are you telling us that the reason you believe in god is that you have read a book that says a few people, a very long time ago, allowed themselves to be killed because they believed they had witnessed a miracle? Like is that, for you, the whole deal? The only thing that swings the needle?

No. That’s not it. But what they did supports my belief. Miracles don’t change the heart. You can always reason them away. You’ll always ask for a bigger and better sign. God is the only one who can change the heart. Miracles just point to the truth. God caused me to humble myself, my conscience being more aware of the depth of my sin and my ultimate fate apart from Christ. He also made me realize the lengths to which he went on my behalf to secure eternal life with him.

[jaybird18c 14]

Amazing grace how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I'm found
Was blind but now I see

 

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed

 

Through many dangers, toils, and snares
I have already come
This grace that brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home

 

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright, shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we first begun

 

Amazing grace how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I'm found
Was blind but now I see

[JoeWeber 2,690]

1 hour ago, jaybird18c said:

(1 Corinthians 1:18) For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

That's even sillier. Find another way to prove the bible with out quoting the bible or some youtube pastor.

[olofscience 475]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

That's even sillier. Find another way to prove the bible with out quoting the bible or some youtube pastor.

We've lost him. He's singing now 

[jaybird18c 14]

10 minutes ago, olofscience said:

We've lost him. He's singing now 

Kind of like when gowlerk posted the video "Reason to Believe" by Tim Hardin earlier.

Singing is good!

Edited August 29, 2023 by jaybird18c

[JoeWeber 2,690]

2 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Kind of like when gowlerk posted the video "Reason to Believe" by Tim Hardin earlier.

Singing is good!

But not the same song over and over and over.....

[wmw999 2,383]

What, besides your faith that you’re right, differentiates the self-sacrifice of martyrs for Islam from those for Christianity? Do you think Muslims are convinced by the devotion of their martyrs?

Wendy P. 

[jaybird18c 14]

6 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

But not the same song over and over and over.....

Now THAT is just silly. 

[jaybird18c 14]

6 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

What, besides your faith that you’re right, differentiates the self-sacrifice of martyrs for Islam from those for Christianity? Do you think Muslims are convinced by the devotion of their martyrs?

Wendy P. 

Muslims who die for their faith are obviously convinced and committed. I'm not arguing against that. However, I would say that they probably wouldn't die for their cause if they knew it to be false. Likewise, Christian martyrs also would not have died for what they knew was false or a lie. They knew It was true. They and over 500 others witnessed it. They died heinous deaths because they refused to deny it. That gives credibility and reason to believe.

 

"Chuck Colson, former special counsel to President Nixon and founder of Prison Fellowship, said that when the Watergate scandal broke, he and 11 other men—some of the toughest and most powerful in the world—met secretly, came up with a story, and swore to maintain it.

But these powerful men broke. Quickly.

Colson said,

I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Everyone was beaten, tortured, stoned, and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world—and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible."

[gowlerk 2,162]

Sigh.....arguing Christian theology with skydivers. No two Christians are completely in agreement with each other over theology. They are known to kill each other over it. What a waste of time.

[jaybird18c 14]

7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Sigh.....arguing Christian theology with skydivers. No two Christians are completely in agreement with each other over theology. They are known to kill each other over it. What a waste of time.

Yeah...you see lots of christians running around killing folks over their faith. 

[jaybird18c 14]

14 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Sigh.....arguing Christian theology with skydivers. No two Christians are completely in agreement with each other over theology. They are known to kill each other over it. What a waste of time.

We may disagree on non-essential details. However, there are core fundamental beliefs that every christian agrees on if they are in fact christian. 

[gowlerk 2,162]

Just now, jaybird18c said:

We may disagree on non-essential details. However, there are core fundamental beliefs that every christian agrees on if they are in fact christian. 

Yes sure. Except that if you don't agree with them you will simply say that they are not "REAL" christians. History is full of sectarian hatred. Your nation was at least partly settled by persecuted sects. This is why your constitution forbids government sanction of religion. Are Christian Scientists Christian? Are Mormons Christian? They would say they are, would you agree? 

[jaybird18c 14]

14 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes sure. Except that if you don't agree with them you will simply say that they are not "REAL" christians. History is full of sectarian hatred. Your nation was at least partly settled by persecuted sects. This is why your constitution forbids government sanction of religion. Are Christian Scientists Christian? Are Mormons Christian? They would say they are, would you agree? 

Here's an example, regardless of Catholic/Protestant, regardless of denomination. Jesus is the Son of God. The deity of Jesus Christ is a historical, fundamental, and essential belief included in what it means to be christian. A mormon does not believe in the deity of Christ. Therefore, they would be considered as a christian cult. That's just a classification. I mean, they and others calls themselves christian. However, they don't believe in a fundamental aspect of what a biblical christian believes. Anyone can call themselves anything they want. It doesn't make them that thing.

A person calls themselves a skydiver and hangs out at the DZ. But if they don't own or can borrow a rig to jump. Are they really a skydiver?

Edited August 29, 2023 by jaybird18c

[jakee 1,445]

1 hour ago, jaybird18c said:

No. That’s not it. But what they did supports my belief. Miracles don’t change the heart. You can always reason them away. You’ll always ask for a bigger and better sign… God caused me to humble myself,

You think you know me better than I know myself and you call that humble?

2 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

God is the only one who can change the heart.

Then why didn’t you cite that as the best reason for not believing? Your god hasn’t changed my heart.