The Skydiving Equipment Industry

[Faicon9493 114]

Here's my situation. A month ago, I was at an event in DeLand and had malfunction with an uneventful cutaway. The main and free bag came down in a wooded area. The main canopy was eventually recovered but the free bag was lost. Before leaving DeLand, I went directly to the manufacturer of my container to see about getting a new reserve pilot chute, free bag, and RSL. I was told the items were in stock and I asked that they be shipped to my home. It took almost two weeks to get the items I was told were in stock. When I got my rig to my rigger, I found out that the reserve ripcord pin and lanyard had also been lost. When I placed an order for a new one, I was told it would be FOUR WEEKS! What is going on in the equipment industry?

[gowlerk 1,901]

50 minutes ago, Faicon9493 said:

What is going on in the equipment industry?

The same thing that is going on in aircraft industry. It is small, it is specialized, and it is just beginning to come out of big time disruptions of material supply and labour shortages. Try ordering an oil filter for a Cessna 182, or replacement fuel bladders. Or enough parts for an engine rebuild. Or even new tires in some cases. Four weeks will then seem like almost nothing.

[bdb2004 24]

1 hour ago, Faicon9493 said:

I was told the items were in stock and I asked that they be shipped to my home. It took almost two weeks to get the items I was told were in stock. 

I recently ordered new risers that were listed as In Stock, but discovered after I paid that it was a 2-3 week delivery time.  I suspect that what In Stock actually meant was, "we have everything we need to make them in stock."  Which in hindsight totally makes sense....I can't imagine rig manufacturers just happen to keep non-standard sized risers in stock because who knows is going to place an order.  I would guess that it would be the same for other parts as well.   

[riggerrob 558]

While it would be ideal to stock one of every size of D-bag, it is just not economically feasible. Consider that some of those rare sizes will sit on the shelf - for years - until they are sold. No company can afford to have a huge stock sit on the shelf with slow turn-over.

Chances are the factory was waiting for a shipment of ripcord pins.

Another possible explanation is that they were busy with a large order and wanted to complete it before building any one-offs in an odd size. 

Another possible explanation is that the factory sub-contracts ripcord manufacture to an outside manufacturer (Capewell or Parachute Labs) and their next order is not due for delivery for a couple of weeks. They MIGHT be able to squeeze an odd-sized ripcord into their next batch of ripcords.

Edited November 3, 2022 by riggerrob
add a phrase

[anomie168 16]

I think we are too used to amazon and instant gratification.  Skydiving is a niche sport and uses niche items.  4 weeks, especially when they said it would be 4 weeks, does not seem unreasonable.  Even two weeks to get in stock items does not seem crazy to me.  

[skyderrill66 15]

From what i have heard parachute labs makes most of the ripcord pins for most rig manufactures.

jaco metals aka parachute labs.

[mark 102]

1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

While it would be ideal to stock one of every size of D-bag, it is just not economically feasible. Consider that some of those rare sizes will sit on the shelf until they are sold. No company can afford to have a huge stock sit on the shelf with slow turn-over.

I disagree.  Harness/container manufacturers may have at most 8 or 9 different freebag sizes, and they can look in their records to see which sizes they have shipped separately from rigs.  Ditto main bags. High-demand items should be available for immediate shipment.

Some have two reserve pilot chute sizes, most have just one.  These should also be available immediately.  If you have an exposed pilot chute (e.g. Racer, Javelin, etc.) it might make more sense to wait for orders instead of having some in stock, I'll bet many customers would be okay with basic black if they could get one right away -- the new colors aren't going to match the sun-faded colors anyway.

Likewise, they know what riser lengths they have been shipping.  Running a few more for spares when you're making a batch anyway shouldn't be an issue.

Ripcords and cutaway handles are frequently custom, but most of our customers would be happy to have a metal-handle ripcord and a red cutaway pillow if it would get them back in the air by the weekend.

Disclaimer:  I am not a manufacturer, just a whiner.  Perhaps someone who is can chime in to explain how scheduling and production work, and why having ready-to-ship spares ties up too much capital.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

3 hours ago, Faicon9493 said:

Here's my situation. A month ago, I was at an event in DeLand and had malfunction with an uneventful cutaway. The main and free bag came down in a wooded area. The main canopy was eventually recovered but the free bag was lost. Before leaving DeLand, I went directly to the manufacturer of my container to see about getting a new reserve pilot chute, free bag, and RSL. I was told the items were in stock and I asked that they be shipped to my home. It took almost two weeks to get the items I was told were in stock. When I got my rig to my rigger, I found out that the reserve ripcord pin and lanyard had also been lost. When I placed an order for a new one, I was told it would be FOUR WEEKS! What is going on in the equipment industry?

Hi 9493,

Re:  the reserve ripcord pin and lanyard had also been lost

Just for clarification, would this ripcord pin be a '9-pin' as used with UPT's SkyHook system?

Jerry Baumchen

[Bluhdow 31]

1 hour ago, mark said:

I disagree.  Harness/container manufacturers may have at most 8 or 9 different freebag sizes, and they can look in their records to see which sizes they have shipped separately from rigs.  Ditto main bags. High-demand items should be available for immediate shipment.

Some have two reserve pilot chute sizes, most have just one.  These should also be available immediately.  If you have an exposed pilot chute (e.g. Racer, Javelin, etc.) it might make more sense to wait for orders instead of having some in stock, I'll bet many customers would be okay with basic black if they could get one right away -- the new colors aren't going to match the sun-faded colors anyway.

Likewise, they know what riser lengths they have been shipping.  Running a few more for spares when you're making a batch anyway shouldn't be an issue.

Ripcords and cutaway handles are frequently custom, but most of our customers would be happy to have a metal-handle ripcord and a red cutaway pillow if it would get them back in the air by the weekend.

Disclaimer:  I am not a manufacturer, just a whiner.  Perhaps someone who is can chime in to explain how scheduling and production work, and why having ready-to-ship spares ties up too much capital.

To have a product sitting on the shelf, the manufacturer most absorb the cost of the good well in advance of collecting the revenue. Investing a lot of money into something that might sell someday is not as efficient as dedicating resources to something which has already sold (e.g. orders). And in this little world, resources are thin. 

The quick-delivery business model works super well...in industries that have high volume. Skydiving is not that type of industry. 

Could they stock a ton of inventory for quick delivery to all the "whiners" out there? Totally. But it would add cost to the end product. How do "whiners" feel about that?

 

[mark 102]

24 minutes ago, Bluhdow said:

To have a product sitting on the shelf, the manufacturer most absorb the cost of the good well in advance of collecting the revenue. Investing a lot of money into something that might sell someday is not as efficient as dedicating resources to something which has already sold (e.g. orders).

 

I get that.  But I don't think it's a lot of money.

[skypilotA1 67]

My opinion only…the skydiving industry, because it’s a small specialized industry, is run by skydivers, not business managers. Skydivers will close down Fridays to get some pre-weekend jumps, skydivers may not take advantage of business cycles to maximize sales, skydivers usually don’t have the business training to see advantages in terms of maximizing profits. It is skydivers running a business, not businessmen running a skydiving concern. The industry and thus the profit potential is too small to attract high powered, extremely qualified business people. Thus, we have a small industry struggling during tough times and coasting during good times.  I’m sure there are a few exceptions, like Bill Booth, that cornered a specific slice of the industry. But, he is an exception.  

[nwt 131]

11 hours ago, bdb2004 said:

I suspect that what In Stock actually meant was, "we have everything we need to make them in stock."  Which in hindsight totally makes sense

As someone involved in manufacturing in a different industry, I strongly disagree.

6 hours ago, mark said:

I get that.  But I don't think it's a lot of money.

I don't understand how anyone could even think 9 dbags is a lot of money to a manufacturer, or even that it makes economic sense to build them one at a time on-demand vs in batch. With their rig lead time being over a year right now, UPT shouldn't be worried about dbags going unsold...

[Bluhdow 31]

If it made economic sense to hold a lot of stock, manufacturers would do it. They may be skydivers, but most are not stupid. 

As someone who used to work in the industry on multiple fronts I can tell you the gap between actual manufacturer revenues and the perceived revenues (by the general jumping public) are large. 

Companies spend a lot of time/money to R&D/manufacture/market a product that will be sold to very few people at a very modest profit margin. Then, once the product is out in the wild it will be active for decades...often passing hands multiple times competing with new gear sales along the way. 

The industry is a money-maker for very very few, and the supply side is crowded. Most are in the industry out of passion, not profit. 

We're lucky it's as good as it is, but I suppose these threads are mostly for complaining so fire away!

[riggerrob 558]

In a perfect world, manufacturers would sew up spare handles, d-bags, etc. during the slow season. 

However, if you are quoting 30 week delivery times, you are running a tight ship and have no slack to sew spare parts on speculation.

[riggerrob 558]

Dear Bluhdow,

"In stock" used to mean "we have those parts sitting on the shelf and our shipping department can send them on this afternoon's UPS truck."

However, I suspect that Amazon, UPS, DHL, etc. have re-written the definition while we were distracted by .........

[riggerrob 558]

Once you get past the cutting table, it makes little difference for production sewers whether the D-bag is a J-1 or J-10 size. The sewing processes are all the same. So you can easily slip a J-1 sized D-bag into a batch of J-10s.

However, switching machines from sewing leg-pads to D-bags may take a half-hour or so. Changing thread colors and tape colors takes longer, so many factories only sew black on Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday may be all-blue. Thursday may be red. Friday is spent catching up on all the odd-colored orders. If they have a big, military order, they may sew camouflage colors for three weeks straight.

[alfonso904 4]

I have spare everything for my rig in the event I have a cutaway and can't find my reserve components and main I don't have to wait for it all to come back in stock. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

On 11/4/2022 at 2:39 PM, riggerrob said:

Once you get past the cutting table, it makes little difference for production sewers whether the D-bag is a J-1 or J-10 size. The sewing processes are all the same. So you can easily slip a J-1 sized D-bag into a batch of J-10s.

However, switching machines from sewing leg-pads to D-bags may take a half-hour or so. Changing thread colors and tape colors takes longer, so many factories only sew black on Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday may be all-blue. Thursday may be red. Friday is spent catching up on all the odd-colored orders. If they have a big, military order, they may sew camouflage colors for three weeks straight.

Hi Rob,

Actually, once the materials are on the cutting table, it makes little difference for production sewers whether the D-bag is a J-1 or J-10 size.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

8 hours ago, alfonso904 said:

I have spare everything for my rig in the event I have a cutaway and can't find my reserve components and main I don't have to wait for it all to come back in stock. 

Hi 904,

I have been telling people to do this for years.  Good for you.

Jerry Baumchen

[riggerrob 558]

Is it wise to substitute the next larger sized d-bag?

This really a Master Rigger question about "substituting similar TSOed components."