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DonnellyB

How normal is a hard pull on new gear?

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A bit of background - I've never jumped "new" gear before.  I've always been on used containers until this last saturday when I jumped a shiny new rental rig while traveling.  The rig had actually only ever had one reserve pack last month.  On a jump went to pull and actually had my hand slip off the handle from how well stuck the pilot chute was in the BOC.  I went back for one more try and pulled like I meant it and the darn thing came out.

But on the ground I brought it up to the S&TA.  This was a rental so I wanted to make sure no brand new jumpers got a nasty surprise out of it (The hard pull + an unexpected extra long snivel had me under canopy lower than I'd like).  They seemed to think it was essentially "normal"?  I have never had to pull anywhere near this hard to deploy before.  On my next jump on the same rig I ended up even slightly messing up my body position on deployment from bracing to pull the pilot chute out.  

What do you think?  I want to ask the hive mind of experience here.  Does this sound 'safeish' and 'normal'?  

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Here are some questions for you.

What model was the rig? Does it have a free fly tuck tab on the handle? If yes, was it tucked in? Did you get a proper briefing when you rented it?

The reason I'm asking is, most modern rigs will come with some kind of freefly secure handle. Sometimes that handle will require a slightly different angle to be pulled out, or just more force. If you were not aware of it, I can see why you thought you were having a hard pull. Packing the PC in the pocket could also make a difference in the pull force.

If I have to make a guess based on your story, I'd say there's nothing wrong with the gear. I spend about 20-30 min briefing people how to check and use the gear they rent from me. I explicitly tell them about the free fly tab and how to avoid a hard pull. 

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20 minutes ago, Deyan said:

Here are some questions for you.

What model was the rig? Does it have a free fly tuck tab on the handle? If yes, was it tucked in? Did you get a proper briefing when you rented it?

The reason I'm asking is, most modern rigs will come with some kind of freefly secure handle. Sometimes that handle will require a slightly different angle to be pulled out, or just more force. If you were not aware of it, I can see why you thought you were having a hard pull. Packing the PC in the pocket could also make a difference in the pull force.

If I have to make a guess based on your story, I'd say there's nothing wrong with the gear. I spend about 20-30 min briefing people how to check and use the gear they rent from me. I explicitly tell them about the free fly tab and how to avoid a hard pull. 

Great questions, it was a 230 student rig from sunpath.  I'm coming back from a long break and so I've purposely upsized off my rig for a bit.  There was no tuck tab and I was given no briefing on the specifics of the gear.  The pilot chute handle was one of those hollow cylinder monstrosities.  The pilot chute itself seemed a bit large to me and was not collapsible.  

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Packing the PC in the pocket could also make a difference in the pull force.

Deyan's right about the freefly tuck tab, as well as the basic PC pack job.  On a new rig, I've seen the latter make a difference between 'ok to extract' and 'lift the whole rig by the PC handle and bounce it up and down without it coming out'.  At least if you are renting and new to a rig, it isn't difficult to test out the BOC pull (not too easy, not too hard), and then just repack the pilot chute if needed.

"Hollow cylinder monstrosities" = Nice and light weight handle which reduces the chance of the handle entangling with the pilot chute. But also a place for fingers to get stuck into, if one grabs it too hastily and is unlucky. Some places put gaffer tape over the holes. Or just grab it carefully.

The PC could be on the larger size for bigger student canopies.

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3 hours ago, pchapman said:


"Hollow cylinder monstrosities"... ...Some places put gaffer tape over the holes.

Since we're on that subject. I'm not a fan of taping up pc handles, especially in base. It defeats one of the big advantages of the handle in my opinion; being able to grip it with the edges. I'm much more a fan of stuffing the handle with pipe insulation and holding in place with double sided tape. If you fall through cloud and the taped up handle gets wet...

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18 hours ago, Quagmirian said:

Since we're on that subject. I'm not a fan of taping up pc handles, especially in base. It defeats one of the big advantages of the handle in my opinion; being able to grip it with the edges. I'm much more a fan of stuffing the handle with pipe insulation and holding in place with double sided tape. If you fall through cloud and the taped up handle gets wet...

What about grip tape?  Plenty of options that should be very 'grippy' even if wet.  

I'm actually kind of surprised to learn we don't all seem to dislike those hollow cylinders.  I always thought they were more of a cost saving measure - maybe for ease of maintenance and replacement than a useful item.  That they 'worked' but not much more.  I can't think of anyone I've ever known with a modern rig that used one purposely.  

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I can't think of anyone I've ever known with a modern rig that used one purposely.  

Except that the SkySnatch pilot chute, a leader in non-flat circular / vented / pulled down apex pilot chute design, is getting popular. They normally (always?) come with a hexagonal carbon fibre open tube handle.  So open tube handles are no longer just something more commonly seen on cheap old rigs, or as the cheaper option than other handles.

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3 hours ago, DonnellyB said:

What about grip tape?  Plenty of options that should be very 'grippy' even if wet.  

I'm actually kind of surprised to learn we don't all seem to dislike those hollow cylinders.  I always thought they were more of a cost saving measure - maybe for ease of maintenance and replacement than a useful item.  That they 'worked' but not much more.  I can't think of anyone I've ever known with a modern rig that used one purposely.  

those tubular handles started out as old thread spools.

Later we discovered that the black plastic spools were too brittle and too easy to crack when people stepped on them, so we switched to softer, more flexible orange plastic tubing for main pilot chute handles.

I have so many thousands of jumps with tubular handles that they are the norm for me. Even Strong Dual Hawk tandems have tubular plastic handles encased in Cordura. 

I am so old that whenever I see a hacky sack hanging from the corner of a rig, I have an over-powering urge to kick the hacky-sack!

Hah!

Hah!

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14 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

I am so old that whenever I see a hacky sack hanging from the corner of a rig, I have an over-powering urge to kick the hacky-sack!

Recently the long-ago Texas skydivers had an old farts reunion. While I couldn’t make this one, I did see the video of the game of hackey. Each one tossed it in and watched it drop. Once, the same guy picked it up off the floor twice, the second time to hand it to a guy who can’t reach stuff on the floor again. Good times… 

Wendy P.

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On 11/1/2022 at 9:10 AM, DonnellyB said:

I'm actually kind of surprised to learn we don't all seem to dislike those hollow cylinders.  I always thought they were more of a cost saving measure - maybe for ease of maintenance and replacement than a useful item.  That they 'worked' but not much more.  I can't think of anyone I've ever known with a modern rig that used one purposely.  

All my early throwout rigs (rented and early purchase) had those.

They were fine, UNTIL the jump where you grabbed it just right and had a PC in tow for having stuck your thumb in the hole.  Never knew of anyone who couldn't shake it off fairly quickly, but its very disconcerting anyway.

Went to a hacky, never looked back.  (Ok, with my back and a BOC hacky, there's no reason to bother looking back... couldn't see it anyway ;-)

 

JW

 

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