Logbook Signatures

[pilotdave 0]

Do you see any value in getting jumps signed off? It always seemed like a big waste of time to me. I don't believe it prevents logbook padding one bit, and I just can't figure out what the value of it is. Makes sense for instructors to sign student logbooks... some confirmation that they actually got the instruction that was logged. But once you've got an A license, why (other than because the USPA says to) should anyone need to get jumps signed? I do get all my jumps signed because I'll need the signatures to get my D license. Pilots don't need to get their logbooks signed by witnesses... why should skydivers?

Dave

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Once I hit the 500 jump mark, I stopped having people sign my skydiving log book(s). I figured that 500 jumps was what I needed for any instructional rating. In fact I don't have any signatures in my BASE jumping and Ground Launching logbooks (yes I've already started a Ground Launching logbook).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[mr2mk1g 10]

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I don't believe it prevents logbook padding one bit

hehe [Night before boogie registration]

Friend: "Mat, you mind signing a couple of jumps"

Me: "Sure - I was probably on half of them and on the ground for the rest... mind returning the favour?"

Friend: "Go for it".

[exchange logbooks and scrawl on a couple of dozen pages each]

The only time I remember to get signatures on the day is for especially cool jumps or milestones - either theirs or mine... and I'm only a low timer! Goodness knows what I'll be like should I enter quadruple figures.

[Remster 24]

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Once I hit the 500 jump mark, I stopped having people sign my skydiving log book(s). I figured that 500 jumps was what I needed for any instructional rating.

Depends..

You never where you'll end up and some contrie's standard may differ from the USPA.

Remster

[jumpervali 1]

Keep it up to date at least until you have all the ratings you will be ever wanting. Trust me be will be needing it if you go for an AFF, or Tandem rating. Then you will start logging DZ paperwork, and student log books on top of you own. Just get used to it.

jumpervali

[The111 0]

I haven't got any signatures since like my 50th jump, not counting when I jump with someone cool and want their name to remember them by (like Loic the other day).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mattjw916 2]

If you plan on doing any demos and want the USPA insurance coverage you will need to have a current log book. Or so I was led to believe. (One of my friends was hosed by this recently but the demo got cancelled)

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[pilotdave 0]

Oh I don't plan to stop getting jumps signed. I just think it's a pointless requirement. My question wasn't should i do it or not, it was should the USPA require it or not.

Anyone see value in the requirement to get jumps signed off?

Dave

[pilotdave 0]

That wouldn't work at my DZ. I was told that when I apply for my D license, not only will I need 500 jumps signed off, but every one of them has to have my accumulated freefall time, which I only grab off my neptune every once in a while and write it down. I'm actually going to have to back fill pages and pages of addition. I'm gonna have to read the USPAs logging requirements very carefully before taking the time to bother with that. I've never heard any requirement like that before. But signatures are gonna be a must, even if it means getting someone to sign a bunch of jumps from the past. Which is exactly why I think the requirement is pointless.

Dave

[The111 0]

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That wouldn't work at my DZ.

If you have the luxury of living near a handful of DZ's like me... then go to a different one. :)

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But signatures are gonna be a must, even if it means getting someone to sign a bunch of jumps from the past. Which is exactly why I think the requirement is pointless.

Agreed.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[upndownshop 0]

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Anyone see value in the requirement to get jumps signed off?

Dave

As a requirement no.
But I do however have people sign, with all the boogies I attend and the people I meet I try to get thier signatures.
I went through my fathers 13 logbooks after he passed and it was really cool to see what he wrote and the Pioneers that signed his books for 41 years. I decided that I would always stay on top of my logbook. Its a piece of my (and some of ya'lls history).

As far as padding jumps (assuming you mean logging jumps that were not made) No way would I ever lie to be "qualified" to jump a boogie or rating. You only put yourself and others in harms way.

I say keep logging your history, and collect signatures for fun.

[/url]www.skyfestboogie.com[url]

[darkwing 4]

I do it for the history. I try to get signatures from new people I jump with, maybe just in case they get famous. It is also a way of welcoming visitors and new jumpers. They think you care if you bother to ask them to sign a logbook.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[tombuch 0]

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I was told that when I apply for my D license, not only will I need 500 jumps signed off, but every one of them has to have my accumulated freefall time, which I only grab off my neptune every once in a while and write it down. I'm actually going to have to back fill pages and pages of addition. I'm gonna have to read the USPAs logging requirements very carefully before taking the time to bother with that.

That seems kinda odd to me. I suppose some S&TA's will require signatures, but a running total of time? That's a bit much. Total time supported by jump numbers and logged altitudes (if different than your local standard) should suffice. When I sign off on any license I look for signatures, but don't make a big deal if they are missing. I do make a big deal about having specific jumps logged with the required performance and accuracy requirements. Of course I tend to be a bit looser with local jumpers who I see on the DZ, and when jump numbers can be easily verified through the manifest computer. I tend to be a bit stricter with visiting jumpers who should really be getting the sign off from their home S&TA (assuming they have a specific home DZ).

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[mjosparky 3]

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but every one of them has to have my accumulated freefall time, which I only grab off my neptune every once in a while and write it down. I'm actually going to have to back fill pages and pages of addition. I'm gonna have to read the USPAs logging requirements very carefully before taking the time to bother with that.

When you got required flights, short xcountry, night flights and such signed off, did you think it was a pointless requirement?

Don't you keep a running total of your flight hours and landings and takeoffs? You have to show this for your instrument and commercial ticket, right? If you don't want an instrument or commercial ticket, no need to keep the records.

Is it any less important to keep required records to prove qualification in skydiving?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[br0k3n 0]

I figure that I will continue to have my log book signed to the point that I have all the licence / qualifications that i require then no more...

The whole signing of a log book is IMO is a pointless excersise, why ? well for one there is no way to stop padding, and the ammount of times that I find myself trying to remember the last 10/15/20 jumps that I did and just filling in "2 way freefly" or "good jump" and then having them all signed off. Lets face it most people will just sign anything.....

Also Im sure we all know a jumper or two at our local DZ that we very rarely see in the air, yet seems to have an ever increasing number of jumps... in a kind of does 1 jump logs 10 .....

Is there any regulation to prevent you signing off your own jumps? as according to the APF Op Regs :-

7.1. PARACHUTIST'S LOG
7.1.1. All parachutists will keep a log of their descents. The log entry for each descent
made by a student parachutist shall be signed in accordance with 6.1.9.
7.1.2. The log shall contain the type of parachute descent, the date on which the descent
was made, the location of the DZ, the exit height, the free fall time in seconds, the
distance landed from the target centre and the type and registration of the aircraft.
7.1.3. Where the parachutist’s log is used as evidence for an application for the issue or
revalidation of a Parachutist Certificate, licence or rating, verification of the log may
be required by any of the persons required to authorise its issue or revalidation.
Legal certification may be accepted where log is lost. See also 3.1.2.

It doesnt mention anything about who is supposed to sign your log, so just sign it yourself...


-Oli

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[mjosparky 3]

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I figure that I will continue to have my log book signed to the point that I have all the licence / qualifications that i require then no more...

The whole signing of a log book is IMO is a pointless excersise, why ? well for one there is no way to stop padding, and the ammount of times that I find myself trying to remember the last 10/15/20 jumps that I did and just filling in "2 way freefly" or "good jump" and then having them all signed off. Lets face it most people will just sign anything.....

Also Im sure we all know a jumper or two at our local DZ that we very rarely see in the air, yet seems to have an ever increasing number of jumps... in a kind of does 1 jump logs 10 .....

Is there any regulation to prevent you signing off your own jumps? as according to the APF Op Regs :-

7.1. PARACHUTIST'S LOG
7.1.1. All parachutists will keep a log of their descents. The log entry for each descent
made by a student parachutist shall be signed in accordance with 6.1.9.
7.1.2. The log shall contain the type of parachute descent, the date on which the descent
was made, the location of the DZ, the exit height, the free fall time in seconds, the
distance landed from the target centre and the type and registration of the aircraft.
7.1.3. Where the parachutist’s log is used as evidence for an application for the issue or
revalidation of a Parachutist Certificate, licence or rating, verification of the log may
be required by any of the persons required to authorise its issue or revalidation.
Legal certification may be accepted where log is lost. See also 3.1.2.

It doesnt mention anything about who is supposed to sign your log, so just sign it yourself...


-Oli

USPA has different requirments.

Quote

C. LOGGING JUMPS FOR LICENSES AND RATINGS
1. Skydives offered as evidence of qualification must
have been:
a. made in accordance with the USPA requirements
in effect at the time of the jump
b. legibly recorded in chronological order in an
appropriate log that contains the following
information:
(1) jump number
(2) date
(3) location
(4) exit altitude
(5) freefall length (time)
(6) type of jump (formation skydiving, freeflying,
canopy formation, style, etc.)
(7) landing distance from the target
(8) equipment used
(9) verifying signature
2. Jumps for license and rating qualifications must be
signed by another licensed skydiver, a pilot, or a USPA
National or FAI Judge who witnessed the jump.
3. Jumps to meet skill requirements must be signed by a
USPA Instructor, Instructor Examiner, Safety &
Training Advisor, or a member of the USPA Board of
Directors.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slotperfect 7]

Teaching students how to fill out a logbook correctly is an important part of their training. Teaching them how to keep track of the requirements they will need for licenses and instructional ratings later will serve them well.

Even if someone says "I will never be an instructor," I still encourage them to track everything in case something changes. I have seen a lot of people change their minds.

Like anything else, it's not difficult to do if you keep up with it often. I log mine at the end of every jump day.

Like many others, I have stopped getting signatures, unless they present some sort of sentimental value to me.

Here in this country, I would encourage everyone to log the important stuff and get signatures through 500 jumps and 6 hours of free fall time. After that I would encourage them to continue to log their jumps, eliminating the details they choose as being not important any more.

Arrive Safely

John

[matthewcline 0]

As an S&TA, I require the Time to be up to date. That is what I learned as a student. So far most of all my Students have become my team mates and are shooting for AFF, which my understanding is you will need an up to date free fall log since you need a minimum amount of time as a pre rec to the course.

I have found that an up todate log book helps to resolve issue rather quickly. This is usually with the FAA since my job has me working with them near daily. The occasional DZ conflict has been resolved by log books too, in my experience.

But remember it is only my experience and opinion for getting all the jumps logged and signed.
Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Unstable 8]

It doesn't hurt anything to get them signed off, and it only makes your logbook look more professional. I get absolutly Everything Signed.

=========Shaun ==========

[Unstable 8]

Maybe I can add one other thing to this thread -
I spend a lot of my time instructing students, and as an Instructor, it is VERY important to me to not only teach the right thing, but to set a good example. If a Student or novice skydiver sees me getting everything signed, it might make a good impression on them to do the same..

=========Shaun ==========

[mattjw916 2]

That's good advice... there seems to be a lot of, "do as I say, but not as I do." in skydiving.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[pilotdave 0]

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When you got required flights, short xcountry, night flights and such signed off, did you think it was a pointless requirement?

Don't you keep a running total of your flight hours and landings and takeoffs? You have to show this for your instrument and commercial ticket, right? If you don't want an instrument or commercial ticket, no need to keep the records.

Is it any less important to keep required records to prove qualification in skydiving?

The FARs (61.51) spell out exactly what needs to be logged for pilots, just like the SIM does for skydivers.

I'm not suggesting that the USPA or the FAA should drop logging requirements for proving qualification for ratings. I'm saying that signatures are only required to be logged for flight instruction. When I go fly solo, nobody signs my log book. Of course I fill it out, but I don't need a witness.

What is the value added in having your buddy sign your logbook after every jump (or a month later when you notice some unsigned jumps)? Does anybody feel that, other than because the USPA requires it or for sentimental value, we should get every jump signed?

Dave

[mjosparky 3]

It is your choice at to what you log and if you get jumps signed off. But because you choose not to, does not mean have a complete logbook with signatures is "pointless" to others.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ladyskydiver 0]

I don't have all of mine signed. I wish I did. After I got my D license, I didn't think I'd want any ratings so I didn't get some of them signed. Now, I'm thinking that I might eventually want a rating (or two) and have been getting it signed. Plus, it's way cool to look back and see who signed your log book (if their signature is legible).

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[AMax 0]

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Here in this country, I would encourage everyone to log the important stuff and get signatures through 500 jumps and 6 hours of free fall time. After that I would encourage them to continue to log their jumps, eliminating the details they choose as being not important any more.

So lets say I logged and signed my first 500 jumps and then continued to log the jumps without signing them. It there a possibility for a problem if I decide to get my AFF rating a couple of years from now? Also, is it a bad habbit to log team jumps as a bunch? For example simething like: Oct. 15-16, Skydive Dallas, Twin Otter, training camp #4, jumps 550-565, Exit alt ~ 13.5 ?