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Reddog75

WARNING, Maximum exit weight. Is it really?

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I think it'd be nice if the OP could be edited to say that the poster has been convinced, and gracious. The dogpile doesn't appear to be needed any more.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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craddock


And you could easily lose that argument. Off landings happen. Hell I love them but whatever.

Late diver on a large formation jump and you are going to stop and check the spot?


Then whoever was spotting needs to get their shit sorted. You aren't spotting for yourself, you're spotting for the entire load.



So the spotter on the first group needs to get their shit "sorted" if the second group takes way to much time setting up and one of the last groups gets long. Get out last out of 4-5 groups where the middle group screwed around in door and have some problem on opening that puts you in saddle lower than expected. Spotter on first group needs to get their shit sorted!?! Regardless you initially blamed a bad spot entirely on the jumper landing out. Maybe the spotter does need to do a better job. But you acted like that reflected negatively always on the person landing out which is just nonsense. Ideally though I would hope they would recognize and open a little higher or even ask for a go around if practical. Point is depending on your position in a group/ formation you may not be responsible for the spot and that does not negate Drew's point.

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craddock

Cross country?



Then you bit off more than you could chew and need to re-evaluate your abilities



Nonsense. And more negativity. Not accomplishing something on a particular jump does not remotely mean you were in over your head? Wth? Actually, I would rather not make it back than be back by 5000 ft. Some dz's are not as forgiving for landing out of course and would be better to spot short, but it is not my type of cross country if your are back at the dz with half your altitude left.

Extreme example.... I took one out 21 miles and the airspace we were infringing on would not let us exit much over 8k. Talked dzo into flying a CC when the day was a wash because of winds. Came up a bit short. Extremely memorable and fun jump. Went back up and did one from 16 miles ( I was on a 107 this time, first one was on a Manta 288) and just squeaked over the last subdivision and trees onto the edge of airport with a flat braked turn crosswind for landing. Only two loads of the day. You think I flew straight in from 500 ft on either of those landings?

Point is I "bit off" more than I could make back on the first one but I chewed it up just fine and only did it because I was prepared to not make it back. Your "bit off more than you can chew" and "re-evaluate abilities" comment makes no sense to me. Drew's point was simple and is very valid. You see, some people will not turn below a certain altitude and think they are safe and conservative and have downsized without required skill set. But like you, off landings scare the crap out of them because they are going to fly straight until they hit something or do a last minute low turn they do not know how to do and frap themselves.

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craddock

Low turns save lives.



Low turns are probably the largest single factor contributing to fatalities in skydiving today.

An occasional out landing is inevitable but if you land out so frequently that you get a history of it, then I reckon that should be an indicator that you're doing something wrong. Apparently you think landing out in random places at regular intervals is fun. Good for you.



Again I think Drew had a Different meaning of history. Probably could have used experience there if it was known you were going to be so negative about it.
That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

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yoink

***
Reading about yourself in the Incidents section of Parachutist magazine is bad enough - being too dead to read about yourself would really suck.




Nope. That's if you get lucky.

What REALLY sucks is being paralyzed for the rest of your life because of the decisions you made. Dying is not the worst outcome in this sport...

snip

agree 100%. "Whats the worst that could happen?" answer: "Quadraplegia!"

and yeah, I was actually very lucky, things could have been much, much worse when I went THUD. My main point was simply that complacency can seriously screw you up, a lesson I learned in a very painful way. Professor Intense F. Pain can be very convincing.

Airtwardo:"There is a bit of difference between a rigger with a nipper and a guy with 138 jumps and a swiss army knife...usually!"

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Quagmirian

***I am jumping a very conservative WL of 1:1...

Depending on your jump numbers, skills and exit weight, and 1:1 loading is not necessarily anywhere near 'very conservative' at all.

in my case, it pretty much is. I'm a big n00b, flying a big n00b canopy, a Navigator 280, AKA, a Freekin Circus Tent...it is docile and forgiving, and honestly they don't make 'em much bigger -a little bit bigger, but not much.

Coming off an injury, I do have some tonnage to shed, and I'm being very cautious and conservative. I know what you are saying, but in this case, I'm thinking 1:1 is pretty conservative, especially compared to the OP 1.6:1 WL...

Airtwardo:"There is a bit of difference between a rigger with a nipper and a guy with 138 jumps and a swiss army knife...usually!"

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Lazarus_762


Coming off an injury, I do have some tonnage to shed, and I'm being very cautious and conservative. I know what you are saying, but in this case, I'm thinking 1:1 is pretty conservative, especially compared to the OP 1.6:1 WL...



0.8 not my usual 1.8 (but not entirely bad - I was out of commission for the plane crash five weeks later)

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Reddog75

***I think it'd be nice if the OP could be edited to say that the poster has been convinced, and gracious. The dogpile doesn't appear to be needed any more.

Wendy P.




These threads take on a life of there own.

LOL! Indeed they do! I remember one thread I started. I posted that I was missing my pocket knife after packing my rig. The point I was trying to make was that, if you have doubts about your gear, don't manifest and just say, "ahh, it'll probably be alright!" Stop, take the time, and double check your gear...in my case, the knife was actually inside cell #4... I retrieved it, cussed for a few minutes then repacked and jumped. Later, I shared what I thought was a learning moment with the group - "if you have doubts about your gear, don't assume, double check and make sure!"...it immediately turned into a very nice 3 sided brawl about the proper technique of removing a broken band from a D bag, including one fellow chastising me for abusing my hook knife by using it to cut stow bands. I didn't even own a hook knife at the time! ;) I just sat back and watched the fireworks...but I also learned from the opinions expressed!

BTW, the fellow who taught me to carefully slice a broken band off a D bag was a master rigger with 30 years experience in the sport...I just assumed he actually had a fookin clue...LOL!

Airtwardo:"There is a bit of difference between a rigger with a nipper and a guy with 138 jumps and a swiss army knife...usually!"

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I'm glad you decided to upsize, but still hear me out. You and I are at about the same level of experience, except I'm way lighter than you are, and jump more often than you.

That WL is fucking terrifying just thinking about it. I currently still jump a 170, and I weigh around 155lbs. I have a 150 purchased, took 2 canopy courses with PD's Jay Moledzki (who by the way is a fantastic instructor and guy in general) yet still haven't jumped the 150. Don't be silly, that's really dangerous what you're doing. I'm not even talking about the Max Weight Limit, that WL alone should put some fear into you.

Be smart, be safe. Take a canopy course or two as well, they're incredibly beneficial.

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Andy9o8

***
Let's not forget that the data placard says "Maximum exit weight", not "Maximum exit weight for someone with 80 jumps".

So while his WL is high for someone with 80 jumps, it doesn't really address the question he asked.



Maybe so, but sometimes subjects compel themselves, and "The witness will simply answer the question asked" is not always the best policy. Like when your 10 year old kid calls up from the basement: "Dad, how close can a can of paint thinner get to a burning candle without blowing up?", a responsible reaction on Dad's part should probably be something more than just calling back down, "Oh, I'd say about 30 feet should do it."

Must be a lawyer/politician thing; avoid answering the question asked and answer something else instead.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

******
Let's not forget that the data placard says "Maximum exit weight", not "Maximum exit weight for someone with 80 jumps".

So while his WL is high for someone with 80 jumps, it doesn't really address the question he asked.



Maybe so, but sometimes subjects compel themselves, and "The witness will simply answer the question asked" is not always the best policy. Like when your 10 year old kid calls up from the basement: "Dad, how close can a can of paint thinner get to a burning candle without blowing up?", a responsible reaction on Dad's part should probably be something more than just calling back down, "Oh, I'd say about 30 feet should do it."

Must be a lawyer/politician thing; avoid answering the question asked and answer something else instead.

Meh. You're spinning.

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***"the warning label "Maximum exit weight 269 lb.".

It's already been thoroughly answered and you decided to upsize, good call.

But in a nutshell, my consideration on the matter is: what that means is "we test-dropped it with a weight of 269lb (plus maybe 25 more lbs to add a safety margin, if we were in a good mood when we ran the tests) and that's the total weight we know it consistently opens without blowing up, breaking lines, tearing cells apart and all other funky things that can happen".
Anything above that, it's on you. It might work, it might not, simply put: we don't know and we don't care.

These considerations are even more important when looking at the maximum exit weight of your reserve. A terminal opening on a reserve that is not TSO'd for your exit weight might be fatal, regardless of your skill level.
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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