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Remster

They both have AADs, so everything's cool right?

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My instructors said it would be good to get a feel for what the earth looks like at pull altitude, but thanks to them I can see it from even lower xP. Didn't even know what ground rush really looked like, but now I know and fuck that :D

EDIT: Also, it looks like the one diver checked his altimeter and kept right on smiling as he went for the pull. think he'd have made it? ><
"I would rather be ashes than dust. I would rather be a majestic eagle riding a missile across the sky with sparklers than be an old couch potato." - Jack London (paraphrased)

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hookitt

This is one of, if not, the best videos I've seen regarding wearing cameras as a new jumper. Whoever allowed this video to get out should be thanked for sharing it. They screwed up, lived to tell about it, and could have easily kept it to themselves.




Sadly it won't make a blind bit of difference.

It'll go on the camera incidents list, and those who already know better will cite it as an example of camera distraction leading to a double AAD save.

Everyone who previously said there is no evidence of cameras affecting jumping will continue to make bullshit excuses about why the video isn't valid, doesn't apply to them or isn't the fault of the camera.

It won't change a single person's mind.

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I wonder if these guys might have been used to higher altitudes, and suffered the internal clock problem. Just guessing, but it could be another good lesson to be learned from this, or at least to be reminded about.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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sundevil777

I wonder if these guys might have been used to higher altitudes, and suffered the internal clock problem. Just guessing, but it could be another good lesson to be learned from this, or at least to be reminded about.



Likely not. They exit at 0:30, the other guy has cypres fire at 1:28. So thats 58 seconds from exit to cypres fire. Which would give roughly 150 m (first 6 seconds) + 2600 m (52 seconds at 50 m/s) + 225 (cypres fire altitude) = 2975 m ~ 9800 feet which would be pretty normal cessna exit altitude.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

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Arvoitus

***I wonder if these guys might have been used to higher altitudes, and suffered the internal clock problem. Just guessing, but it could be another good lesson to be learned from this, or at least to be reminded about.



Likely not. They exit at 0:30, the other guy has cypres fire at 1:28. So thats 58 seconds from exit to cypres fire. Which would give roughly 150 m (first 6 seconds) + 2600 m (52 seconds at 50 m/s) + 225 (cypres fire altitude) = 2975 m ~ 9800 feet which would be pretty normal cessna exit altitude.

It seems like you're confirming my point. Most people have a bit more than a minute of freefall time from higher altitudes.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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This happened somewhere in south america, from the rumors we're hearing both guys had low number of jumps. One was coming back to the sport after two years and had around 50 jumps. His rig didn't have an AAD, the DZ didn't let him use it. So he was given a rig with a 14 year old cypres... Which worked and saved his life. There is also a picture of the two Free bags on the ground tangled together. One of the jumper quit the sport after that. The local skydiving community was outraged that the video leaked LOL.
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sundevil777

******I wonder if these guys might have been used to higher altitudes, and suffered the internal clock problem. Just guessing, but it could be another good lesson to be learned from this, or at least to be reminded about.



Likely not. They exit at 0:30, the other guy has cypres fire at 1:28. So thats 58 seconds from exit to cypres fire. Which would give roughly 150 m (first 6 seconds) + 2600 m (52 seconds at 50 m/s) + 225 (cypres fire altitude) = 2975 m ~ 9800 feet which would be pretty normal cessna exit altitude.

It seems like you're confirming my point. Most people have a bit more than a minute of freefall time from higher altitudes.

I know you're not justifying it in any way, but I want to write my tirade. Doesn't matter one bit what these guys are used to, even if they did have enough jump numbers to have a well-tuned "internal clock", which they clearly did not. If you don't know what altitude you're jumping from and take the appropriate measures, you need to stay on the ground with the spectators. My last 5 jumps have been my first from 10,500' against 150 total from 12,500' in the last 18 months, but I took that into account and was in position to pull at the correct altitude because I check my altimeter and have an audible to back me up.

It's amazing to read that one guy didn't even have an AAD in his own rig and was saved by an alert and cautious DZO. Hopefully he's the one that quit. Also pretty funny to hear that they're unhappy the video leaked. If it's true that one quit and one didn't, I'd like to know how much thought the second guy put in before deciding to continue. That should not have been a decision made lightly, and I wonder how he justified it to himself.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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I can imagine the DZ management didn't want that video to get out. If there was better mentoring happening at that facility, those 3 would not have been jumping together yet, especially with cameras.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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they are both damn lucky it was only there free bags that tangled together.
and not their reserves . it looked to me like the cypress fired almost simultaneously but the guy wearing the POV camera reserve opening was a little more positive
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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hookitt

This is one of, if not, the best videos I've seen regarding wearing cameras as a new jumper. Whoever allowed this video to get out should be thanked for sharing it. They screwed up, lived to tell about it, and could have easily kept it to themselves.

Sure it was dumb. They were the first to know about it. I suggest not bashing these guys but learning that almost dead looks just like that.

I'm with you. The first person to have never screwed the pooch on a jump raise their hand. Sure these guys hummed it low and they shouldn't have had gopros etc etc but hell I was the low jumper at 850ish jumps out of 6 others on a pops jump that dumped milliseconds before we pissed off our cypress's (I think one had turned his off since we had been dumping at 2k on the record jumps). Only had one 2 out but should have been 6 since we ALL went to our mains. Made for a damn good picture though..oh and only the camera guy had a camera not the others in the base or the other 17 people on the load..so if even old should of known betters can screw up geeking the camera newbies should really think about wearing one and watch this but beating these guys to death for something nearly everyone I know has done at some point (go beyond fucking low) is grandiose self righteousness..I'm glad they had the balls to post this. Beating people up will just have them hiding their screw ups instead of sharing for others to learn from.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

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catfishhunter

The first person to have never screwed the pooch on a jump raise their hand.... but beating these guys to death for something nearly everyone I know has done at some point (go beyond fucking low) is grandiose self righteousness.. Beating people up will just have them hiding their screw ups instead of sharing for others to learn from.



I'm raising my hand. I know I don't have as many jumps as many of you, but I've never even gone close to this low. I watch my alti and have an audible. All this talk of "we all make mistakes" is strange to me. This isn't like making a mistake on a math test. This was an enormous mistake that was reckless endangerment of their own lives. It was a failure to practice any of the procedures that are necessary to keep you alive, like running our of air in scuba because you didn't once check your gauge (which I've also never done despite my hundreds of dives). If we believe the above posts, one guy didn't even have an AAD to save his ass, and a DZO intervened to get him one. Again, absolute failure to use any of the procedures or devices that keep you alive.

As for the last comment, if you believe the rumours posted above, they DID try to hide their error from the community. How the video came out is not known.

I'm happy this video came out, and appreciate them if they posted it, but they do deserve ALL of the criticism they're getting.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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You may be raising your hand now, but wait and think back on this when you have say 2000 jumps!

Personally I usually try to pull around 4 grand(will vary due to situation). But even being a usually "high" puller I have been in the saddle as low as 1400ft.

You will eventually lose track of time and altitude. It may be the day you audible battery dies or you forget it. Right now you may not be dependent on, but that may change. Hopefully I will be wrong and you will never lose altitude awareness and will always deploy when you plan to. :)

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justme12001

You may be raising your hand now, but wait and think back on this when you have say 2000 jumps!

Personally I usually try to pull around 4 grand(will vary due to situation). But even being a usually "high" puller I have been in the saddle as low as 1400ft.



Care to make a friendly wager? :P Actually, this has me thinking about backing up my audible. The G3 has 2 pockets, after all.

If I can again make the comparison to scuba, I've done hundreds of scuba dives, been diving with hundreds of other divers, and have only once (very recently) seen somebody so stupid that they let their air run out by not checking. Coincidentally, she also spent the dive caring only about a camera and had no basic diving skills. These events are really rare, there's no reason to assume it will happen to all of us.

I also think you're not giving yourself and the rest of us enough credit. We're talking about 2 bozos who let their AADs fire without even an attempt at pulling or checking altitude. You deployed by yourself and had an open canopy at 1,400 feet. Not really the same thing, is it? These guys were 3 seconds from dead. They were so low that if they hadn't had AADs, even noticing where they were immediately would probably not have saved them, given reasonable reaction and deployment times. I'd bet if we asked people to raise their hand if they've ever done this, you'd get nothing. Really, how many people on here have been outright saved by an AAD while fully conscious? Not fair to compare this incident to a pull at around 2,000 feet.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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after 34 years in the sport I have been that low twice . But both times I had already pulled silver and was waiting on reserve line stretch:S
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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JeffCa

***You may be raising your hand now, but wait and think back on this when you have say 2000 jumps!

Personally I usually try to pull around 4 grand(will vary due to situation). But even being a usually "high" puller I have been in the saddle as low as 1400ft.



Care to make a friendly wager? :P Actually, this has me thinking about backing up my audible. The G3 has 2 pockets, after all.

If I can again make the comparison to scuba, I've done hundreds of scuba dives, been diving with hundreds of other divers, and have only once (very recently) seen somebody so stupid that they let their air run out by not checking. Coincidentally, she also spent the dive caring only about a camera and had no basic diving skills. These events are really rare, there's no reason to assume it will happen to all of us.

I also think you're not giving yourself and the rest of us enough credit. We're talking about 2 bozos who let their AADs fire without even an attempt at pulling or checking altitude. You deployed by yourself and had an open canopy at 1,400 feet. Not really the same thing, is it? These guys were 3 seconds from dead. They were so low that if they hadn't had AADs, even noticing where they were immediately would probably not have saved them, given reasonable reaction and deployment times. I'd bet if we asked people to raise their hand if they've ever done this, you'd get nothing. Really, how many people on here have been outright saved by an AAD while fully conscious? Not fair to compare this incident to a pull at around 2,000 feet.You've got around 200 jumps. From about now through your next 300 or so, you are one of the most dangerous skydivers. You know a lot about skydiving, but you don't know what you don't know.
This is a common take on skydiving incidents. "This person was (chose one; careless, stupid, reckless, etc) and I am far too good to make that kind of mistake."
Your tag line reinforces my opinion. Not that what Bill Booth said isn't true. It just doesn't tell the whole story.
A more accurate one is "you are not, and never will be good enough not to die in this sport."
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

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ufk22

You know a lot about skydiving, but you don't know what you don't know.
This is a common take on skydiving incidents. "This person was (chose one; careless, stupid, reckless, etc) and I am far too good to make that kind of mistake."
Your tag line reinforces my opinion. Not that what Bill Booth said isn't true. It just doesn't tell the whole story.
A more accurate one is "you are not, and never will be good enough not to die in this sport."



Perhaps it's time for anyone who thinks they'll never [insert mistake here] to spend some time reading this thread:

Stupid Things I Have Done

We're all human.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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> also think you're not giving yourself and the rest of us enough credit. . . .These
>events are really rare, there's no reason to assume it will happen to all of us.

I recall a dive I was on when I had about 2000 jumps. Two S+TA/instructors, one AFF instructor, one very current 4-way jumper. We were all prepared for the possibility that we might get out low and thus pull lower than normal; the AFF-I even pantomimed going straight for his reserve if we wound up too low.

We went up, we got out, we went low. I pulled at about 1200 feet and was open by 1100 feet (one of the few times I welcomed a slammer) and I was by far the highest puller on that load. Two Cypres firings. The guy who pantomimed going for his reserve went for his main instead out of habit. One downplane that fortunately developed so low that the landing was merely painful. We grounded ourselves out of shame. Later they wrote a song about us and our folly.

Now, you may be safer than the two S+TA's on that load, and more aware than the AFF-I who had practiced his EP's moments before getting on the load. But that, IMO, is more hope than realism.

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