stevemeg 0 #1 September 7, 2014 This isn't about a particular incident but about incidents in general...so if it needs to be moved to another forum, OK with me. What happens after a collision? Meaning...if one jumper hits another in freefall (or under canopy) and the 2nd jumper dies or has an injury, is the first jumper charged with a criminal act? If you unintentionally run over somebody, you might be charged with vehicular homicide or something like that. I ask because I never see anything about criminal charges in these forums or in the referenced news reports. Are there ever criminal charges after a skydiving accident? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andybobolson 0 #2 September 7, 2014 Criminal statutes generally require an intent to harm, reckless indifference, or an accompanying dangerous felony offense. With the vast majority of skydiving fatalities, where fault can be attributed to someone other than the deceased, there may be simple negligence but there is no reckless indifference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 276 #3 September 7, 2014 And then there's civil suits. A rare one happened in Canada, when one jumper, Gerry Dyck, sued a team mate, Rob Laidlaw, for $1.1M Canadian after serious permanent injuries on collision during opening. The accident happened in 1991, the case was won in 2000, but I'm not sure what ever happened after that. Did Laidlaw pay up, avoid ever going home to Canada, or appeal? http://www.dropzone.com/news/General/Skydiver_Wins_Lawsuit_Against_Teammate_386.html Whether other suits happen and what the chances are of actually winning, I have no idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #4 September 7, 2014 Wow, never heard of that. Judge Peter Power and Gerry Dyck, ironic naming for a case involving a skydive suing another jumper."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevemeg 0 #5 September 7, 2014 Thanks for the replies. And for those of you who think I'm a lawyer trolling (private messages), I'm not. Just curious about the question. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #6 September 7, 2014 pchapmanAnd then there's civil suits. A rare one happened in Canada, when one jumper, Gerry Dyck, sued a team mate, Rob Laidlaw, for $1.1M Canadian after serious permanent injuries on collision during opening. The accident happened in 1991, the case was won in 2000, but I'm not sure what ever happened after that. Did Laidlaw pay up, avoid ever going home to Canada, or appeal? http://www.dropzone.com/news/General/Skydiver_Wins_Lawsuit_Against_Teammate_386.html Rob comes back to Canada on regular occasion and is still involved with CSPA dealing with National Teams and the Coaching Ratings programs. I have no direct knowledge of the suit, but it is possible that it was an action of one insurance company versus the other. Quite common and the individuals are always named primarily in the litigation. A requirement of all insurance policies is that the insured agrees to assist their insurers to win financial recovery with testimony (among other things). That "may" have been the situation there. Or, I could be mistaken... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andybobolson 0 #7 September 7, 2014 I don't know what type of insurance Laidlaw had but an insurance company was indeed the true defendant in that case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 599 #8 September 7, 2014 Subrogation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 259 #9 September 8, 2014 Rob had some sort of property liability like homeowners or renters, and that was the money that Gerry Dyck got. The insurance company paid it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philly51 0 #10 September 8, 2014 After my canopy collision, I went to the hospital and the other guy went home. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyBear 1 #11 September 8, 2014 stevemeg Thanks for the replies. And for those of you who think I'm a lawyer trolling (private messages), I'm not. Just curious about the question. Thanks! It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #12 September 8, 2014 Quotecould someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum? I can't think of any reason, so, no. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #13 September 9, 2014 FlyBear It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum? Because they are unimaginative snakes who can't think for themselves but will jump onto any lawsuit idea you can think of..... present company (DZ.com lawyer types) excluded, of course. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 599 #14 September 9, 2014 skyjumpenfool *** It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum? Because they are unimaginative snakes who can't think for themselves but will jump onto any lawsuit idea you can think of..... present company (DZ.com lawyer types) excluded, of course. ..........................................::. With those verbal skills, you could become a true-polisher. Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ghost47 18 #15 September 9, 2014 QuoteIt's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum? For an education. if a lawyer wants to establish that someone acted below a certain standard of care, first (s)he must understand what that standard of care is. One way of at least getting a background idea is frequenting or even posting on forums that skydivers frequent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 599 #16 September 9, 2014 riggerrob ****** It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum? Because they are unimaginative snakes who can't think for themselves but will jump onto any lawsuit idea you can think of..... present company (DZ.com lawyer types) excluded, of course. ..........................................::. With those verbal skills, you could become a true-polisher. Hah! Hah! .................................................. Damn auto-correct! I meant to say "turd- polisher." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yeyo 1 #17 September 9, 2014 I know of a case where 1 jumper landed, started running to get away from coming water (beach jump), got hit by another jumper that was landing, broke an arm, and he sue the jumper that hit him. Dont know the outcome.HISPA #93 DS #419.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #18 September 9, 2014 stevemeg Thanks for the replies. And for those of you who think I'm a lawyer trolling (private messages), I'm not. Just curious about the question. Thanks! Are you by chance a reporter / investigator / cheesehead? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 599 #19 September 9, 2014 yeyoI know of a case where 1 jumper landed, started running to get away from coming water (beach jump), got hit by another jumper that was landing, broke an arm, and he sue the jumper that hit him. Dont know the outcome. .............................................................. Sad that a judge would waste time hearing this frivolous lawsuit, especially since so many rules of the sea and federal aid regulations favour the jumper who is landing. The landing jumper aimed for an open spot, then some fool filled the landing spot and wondered why he got landed upon. That is probably the same fool who walked in front of a (law-abiding) cement truck then wondered why he got run over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Di0 1 #20 September 10, 2014 DougHWow, never heard of that. Judge Peter Power and Gerry Dyck, ironic naming for a case involving a skydive suing another jumper. The other guy probably Laid low after the case.I'm standing on the edge With a vision in my head My body screams release me My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #21 September 10, 2014 yeyoI know of a case where 1 jumper landed, started running to get away from coming water (beach jump), got hit by another jumper that was landing, broke an arm, and he sue the jumper that hit him. Dont know the outcome. He got his other arm broken back at the dropzone...? Hopefully. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevemeg 0 #22 September 10, 2014 Are you by chance a reporter / investigator / cheesehead? Nope. None of the above. Just a simple country skydiver who saw a near collision at the DZ and wondered if the reckless canopy pilot would have to answer for it if he had hurt the other guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #23 September 12, 2014 stevemeg Are you by chance a reporter / investigator / cheesehead? Nope. None of the above. Just a simple country skydiver who saw a near collision at the DZ and wondered if the reckless canopy pilot would have to answer for it if he had hurt the other guy. Cool beans - name just reminded me of a Wisconsin journalist I use to know. As to you query. . . It depends on the circumstances. For example - sone asshat hotdogging it carelessly through the pattern an crashed into poor ole fragile me...no need to worry about lawers... I would be held without bail! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gunsmokex 1 #24 September 14, 2014 stevemegThis isn't about a particular incident but about incidents in general...so if it needs to be moved to another forum, OK with me. What happens after a collision? Meaning...if one jumper hits another in freefall (or under canopy) and the 2nd jumper dies or has an injury, is the first jumper charged with a criminal act? If you unintentionally run over somebody, you might be charged with vehicular homicide or something like that. I ask because I never see anything about criminal charges in these forums or in the referenced news reports. Are there ever criminal charges after a skydiving accident? Its in the SIM Section 4-3 Part D no 2. part c. 2. Liability release a. Each participant will also be required to agree to and sign a liability release. b. This release will verify that the person understands that there is risk involved in skydiving and that the participant freely agrees to accept that risk. c. The legal release will usually contain a contract or covenant by which the participant agrees not to sue the skydiving school or anyone else if the participant is injured. However I'm just speaking from a student peon standpoint but that my only point of reference so far. I'm sure thats in the SIM somewhere. Hell I'll even bet somewhere is the meaning life in this SIM manual! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimjumper 25 #25 September 14, 2014 Don't tell anybody but not all dropzones are USPA members and, contrary to popular belief, the SIM only applies to Group Member DZ's. Even then the legal obligations are pretty tenuous. Liabilities vary widely from state to state and federally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites