What happens after a collision?

[stevemeg 0]

This isn't about a particular incident but about incidents in general...so if it needs to be moved to another forum, OK with me.

What happens after a collision? Meaning...if one jumper hits another in freefall (or under canopy) and the 2nd jumper dies or has an injury, is the first jumper charged with a criminal act? If you unintentionally run over somebody, you might be charged with vehicular homicide or something like that. I ask because I never see anything about criminal charges in these forums or in the referenced news reports. Are there ever criminal charges after a skydiving accident?

[andybobolson 0]

Criminal statutes generally require an intent to harm, reckless indifference, or an accompanying dangerous felony offense. With the vast majority of skydiving fatalities, where fault can be attributed to someone other than the deceased, there may be simple negligence but there is no reckless indifference.

[pchapman 261]

And then there's civil suits. A rare one happened in Canada, when one jumper, Gerry Dyck, sued a team mate, Rob Laidlaw, for $1.1M Canadian after serious permanent injuries on collision during opening.

The accident happened in 1991, the case was won in 2000, but I'm not sure what ever happened after that. Did Laidlaw pay up, avoid ever going home to Canada, or appeal?

http://www.dropzone.com/news/General/Skydiver_Wins_Lawsuit_Against_Teammate_386.html

Whether other suits happen and what the chances are of actually winning, I have no idea.

[DougH 270]

Wow, never heard of that. Judge Peter Power and Gerry Dyck, ironic naming for a case involving a skydive suing another jumper.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[stevemeg 0]

Thanks for the replies.

And for those of you who think I'm a lawyer trolling (private messages), I'm not. Just curious about the question.

Thanks!

[aphid 0]

pchapman

And then there's civil suits. A rare one happened in Canada, when one jumper, Gerry Dyck, sued a team mate, Rob Laidlaw, for $1.1M Canadian after serious permanent injuries on collision during opening.

The accident happened in 1991, the case was won in 2000, but I'm not sure what ever happened after that. Did Laidlaw pay up, avoid ever going home to Canada, or appeal?

http://www.dropzone.com/news/General/Skydiver_Wins_Lawsuit_Against_Teammate_386.html

Rob comes back to Canada on regular occasion and is still involved with CSPA dealing with National Teams and the Coaching Ratings programs.

I have no direct knowledge of the suit, but it is possible that it was an action of one insurance company versus the other. Quite common and the individuals are always named primarily in the litigation. A requirement of all insurance policies is that the insured agrees to assist their insurers to win financial recovery with testimony (among other things).

That "may" have been the situation there. Or, I could be mistaken...

[andybobolson 0]

I don't know what type of insurance Laidlaw had but an insurance company was indeed the true defendant in that case.

[riggerrob 558]

Subrogation.

[tkhayes 123]

Rob had some sort of property liability like homeowners or renters, and that was the money that Gerry Dyck got. The insurance company paid it.

[philly51 0]

After my canopy collision, I went to the hospital and the other guy went home.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"

[FlyBear 1]

stevemeg

Thanks for the replies.

And for those of you who think I'm a lawyer trolling (private messages), I'm not. Just curious about the question.

Thanks!

It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum?

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum?

I can't think of any reason, so, no.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

FlyBear

It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum?

Because they are unimaginative snakes who can't think for themselves but will jump onto any lawsuit idea you can think of..... present company (DZ.com lawyer types) excluded, of course.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[riggerrob 558]

skyjumpenfool

***

It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum?

Because they are unimaginative snakes who can't think for themselves but will jump onto any lawsuit idea you can think of..... present company (DZ.com lawyer types) excluded, of course.


..........................................::.

With those verbal skills, you could become a true-polisher.
Hah!
Hah!

[ghost47 18]

Quote

It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum?

For an education. if a lawyer wants to establish that someone acted below a certain standard of care, first (s)he must understand what that standard of care is. One way of at least getting a background idea is frequenting or even posting on forums that skydivers frequent.

[riggerrob 558]

riggerrob

******

It's offtopic, but could someone maybe explain to me why any lawyer would ask such questions in a skydiving forum?

Because they are unimaginative snakes who can't think for themselves but will jump onto any lawsuit idea you can think of..... present company (DZ.com lawyer types) excluded, of course.


..........................................::.

With those verbal skills, you could become a true-polisher.
Hah!
Hah!

..................................................

Damn auto-correct!
I meant to say "turd- polisher."

[yeyo 1]

I know of a case where 1 jumper landed, started running to get away from coming water (beach jump), got hit by another jumper that was landing, broke an arm, and he sue the jumper that hit him. Dont know the outcome.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[airtwardo 6]

stevemeg

Thanks for the replies.

And for those of you who think I'm a lawyer trolling (private messages), I'm not. Just curious about the question.

Thanks!

Are you by chance a reporter / investigator / cheesehead?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[riggerrob 558]

yeyo

I know of a case where 1 jumper landed, started running to get away from coming water (beach jump), got hit by another jumper that was landing, broke an arm, and he sue the jumper that hit him. Dont know the outcome.

..............................................................
Sad that a judge would waste time hearing this frivolous lawsuit, especially since so many rules of the sea and federal aid regulations favour the jumper who is landing.
The landing jumper aimed for an open spot, then some fool filled the landing spot and wondered why he got landed upon.
That is probably the same fool who walked in front of a (law-abiding) cement truck then wondered why he got run over.

[Di0 1]

DougH

Wow, never heard of that. Judge Peter Power and Gerry Dyck, ironic naming for a case involving a skydive suing another jumper.

The other guy probably Laid low after the case.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[yoink 321]

yeyo

I know of a case where 1 jumper landed, started running to get away from coming water (beach jump), got hit by another jumper that was landing, broke an arm, and he sue the jumper that hit him. Dont know the outcome.

He got his other arm broken back at the dropzone...?


Hopefully.

[stevemeg 0]

Are you by chance a reporter / investigator / cheesehead?

Nope. None of the above. Just a simple country skydiver who saw a near collision at the DZ and wondered if the reckless canopy pilot would have to answer for it if he had hurt the other guy.

[airtwardo 6]

stevemeg

Are you by chance a reporter / investigator / cheesehead?

Nope. None of the above. Just a simple country skydiver who saw a near collision at the DZ and wondered if the reckless canopy pilot would have to answer for it if he had hurt the other guy.


Cool beans - name just reminded me of a Wisconsin journalist I use to know.

As to you query. . . It depends on the circumstances.

For example - sone asshat hotdogging it carelessly through the pattern an crashed into poor ole fragile me...no need to worry about lawers...

I would be held without bail!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[gunsmokex 1]

stevemeg

This isn't about a particular incident but about incidents in general...so if it needs to be moved to another forum, OK with me.

What happens after a collision? Meaning...if one jumper hits another in freefall (or under canopy) and the 2nd jumper dies or has an injury, is the first jumper charged with a criminal act? If you unintentionally run over somebody, you might be charged with vehicular homicide or something like that. I ask because I never see anything about criminal charges in these forums or in the referenced news reports. Are there ever criminal charges after a skydiving accident?

Its in the SIM Section 4-3 Part D no 2. part c.

2. Liability release
a. Each participant will also be required to agree to
and sign a liability release.
b. This release will verify that the person understands
that there is risk involved in skydiving and that
the participant freely agrees to accept that risk.
c. The legal release will usually contain a contract
or covenant by which the participant agrees not
to sue the skydiving school or anyone else if the
participant is injured.

However I'm just speaking from a student peon standpoint but that my only point of reference so far.

I'm sure thats in the SIM somewhere. Hell I'll even bet somewhere is the meaning life in this SIM manual!

[jimjumper 25]

Don't tell anybody but not all dropzones are USPA members and, contrary to popular belief, the SIM only applies to Group Member DZ's. Even then the legal obligations are pretty tenuous. Liabilities vary widely from state to state and federally.