0
GrayAnderson

Student Etiquette-Getting Own Altimeter

Recommended Posts

So I had a rough Cat B jump today that will be getting repeated sometime in the next few weeks. I can go in great depth on this if need be. In the meantime...

I got an altimeter today that had a scuffed cover, which helped make today an experience I will not be repeating. With that in mind I was wondering (A) if it would be bad form to buy my own altimeter; and/or (B) assuming it wouldn't be bad form, if anyone had any suggestions for one to buy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(1) Thanks for letting me know I won't get a dirty look.
(2) Thanks for the rec. I like the idea of digital as well...I saw a bunch of digital ones at Suffolk today, but that's probably down to Suffolk being the DZ of choice for a lot of military (one of my instructors being a Navy parachute rigger by day).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See what your instructor says.
But, typical first purchases are your own altimeter, goggles and helmet.

Analog vs Digital is a personal preference. I'm an "old guy" and I prefer analog. I can read the needle/dial faster than I can process digits.

The "Tap on the face to make it catch up" is far more a habit than a necessity. Unless something is sticking, it shouldn't need that. You don't ever see people tapping on the face in freefall, just in the plane. Nervous habit, perhaps?

Mechanical analogs also don't ever need batteries. Or have them go dead at the worst possible time.

Digitals, though, fail with a dead screen, so you know it's dead. When an analog fails, it still shows something, just the wrong thing.

In case you haven't noticed it, both have their pros and cons.
You have to decide which is the best option for you.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm older but not as old as twardo.

Analog is the way to go. The old ones had a replaceable face, check the paragear catalog to see if their still available.;)

I always made a habit of checking my altimeter against the person sitting on top of or next to me to verify we were at least close, if not tap. Ask instructor for more info.

Enjoy:)

One Jump Wonder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jumplongisland

Go Digital. Viso2 from l&b super easy to read/use. Some may say that analog is what students need to use but odds they are old timers. This is the future! digital is the way to go. I know i don't like having to tap an analog on my way to altitude so it "catches up".



I'm not an old guy and I wouldn't recommend a digital* to any student**. In fact I wouldn't recommend it anyone. There is zero benefit in knowing your exact altitude in freefall. In fact I bet you'll end up wasting more time having to concentrate more to make out the exact digital reading rather then just glancing over at an analog display and looking at the needle.


*Digital as in showing altitude on a digital display, not something like alti-track.
**Our local rules don't allow students to use digital altimeters anyway so my opinion doesn't even affect it.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe


Digitals, though, fail with a dead screen, so you know it's dead. When an analog fails, it still shows something, just the wrong thing.



This is not necessary true. My Viso got stuck at 580 meters (around to 2000 feet) climbing to altitude some months ago. Then it reset itself and started counting again from zero, being already midway to 4000 meters (13000 feet). Then it died for the jump, but reset on the ground. The next jump died completely. I was having an analog as backup, as well as an audible. BTW: The batteries were perfectly fine, they were new, and later I tried with another set, and it still didn't work.

In another jump, later this summer, I saw the Optima II of one guy on my load, through the window on his helmet. He had a similar problem, I don't remember exactly, but the reading was completely off. I told him to don't wait for the alarm to go off, that it was not working properly. He checked and acknowledged. The batteries were almost empty (the battery icon was flashing).

Failure modes on digital devices are not that predictable, so careful with your assumptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arvoitus

***Go Digital. Viso2 from l&b super easy to read/use. Some may say that analog is what students need to use but odds they are old timers. This is the future! digital is the way to go. I know i don't like having to tap an analog on my way to altitude so it "catches up".



I'm not an old guy and I wouldn't recommend a digital* to any student**. In fact I wouldn't recommend it anyone. There is zero benefit in knowing your exact altitude in freefall. In fact I bet you'll end up wasting more time having to concentrate more to make out the exact digital reading rather then just glancing over at an analog display and looking at the needle.


*Digital as in showing altitude on a digital display, not something like alti-track.
**Our local rules don't allow students to use digital altimeters anyway so my opinion doesn't even affect it.

Although I am just a student with 27 jumps I disagree here. My first altimeter is a VISO 2 and I don't find it any harder to read than an analog meter. I just see 5 or 4 (thousand feet) appear on the screen and I open. In addition I like the logbook function: it shows, among other info, the height my parachute was completely open and my freefall speed. Under canopy I find the exact readings easier for my steering circuit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arvoitus

I'm not an old guy and I wouldn't recommend a digital* to any student**. In fact I wouldn't recommend it anyone. There is zero benefit in knowing your exact altitude in freefall. In fact I bet you'll end up wasting more time having to concentrate more to make out the exact digital reading rather then just glancing over at an analog display and looking at the needle.



I'm not sure why people toss out the line that those of us use digital get them because "we can tell our exact altitude in freefall." I don't know anyone that uses them that way. Learning to swoop is different, of course.

Likewise, the old saw that they are "hard to read" is rather silly...people make it sound like you need a PhD in Ancient Greek to figure out what the screen is saying. Should (if?) you bother to look at the thing in freefall...does anyone really care if it says 8.37 or are they just looking for the 8, or the 6, or 4, 3 etc.

I've had both the "old school" analog and "new school" digital and have had them both fail in funny ways. Had a needle just pop off the spindle in freefall (alti was two or three months old), have had the needle get truly stuck and no amount of tapping would free it...have had the digital read negative feet on jump run etc. All good times.

It *may* be easier for students in the first few jumps - particularly if you do the lock on at X, wave etc at Y. Then again, it may just be what we are all used to. There was an article in Blue Skies a year or two back talking about how Voss had switched to VisoII for all student jumps - including the first one. No real reports of students not doing their chores at the assigned times etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am an old guy, but I've gone digital. Nothing to do with exactly what altitude I'm at in freefall. It's all about improving my canopy piloting skills.( And recommended by the course instructor)
Can't tell how much altitude I lose in a hard turn, flat turn, slow turn or anything else with analog.
I was worried about my ability to process the digital numbers as well as the clockface analog display. It was a non-issue. I still have my analog as back up. (And an audible)
Blue skies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jumplongisland

Go Digital. Viso2 from l&b super easy to read/use. Some may say that analog is what students need to use but odds they are old timers. This is the future! digital is the way to go. I know i don't like having to tap an analog on my way to altitude so it "catches up".





^^^^ High on the list of worthless posts I've read here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jumplongisland

Go Digital. Viso2 from l&b super easy to read/use. Some may say that analog is what students need to use but odds they are old timers. This is the future! digital is the way to go. I know i don't like having to tap an analog on my way to altitude so it "catches up".



If you need to "tap" your alitmeter, you have a malfunctioning altimeter that needs to be calibrated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think what the analog fans are trying to portray is the "peripheral" reading advantages. In a malfunction that has my hands working on twisted lines for example I can see the needle position in my peripheral without having to actually read the numbers to get a relatively accurate read on my altitude without having to think about numbers. It is the same reason drag racing cars still use a big ol' analog tachometer, which much like analog altis, is colored yellow and red in the "bad zones". Drag tachs are typically mounted in the peripheral vision of the driver so that focus doesn't have to come off of the track, and it's a somewhat common practice to turn the gauge so that redline is when the needle is straight up and down. All of this is done so that its a rapid reading that really doesn't involve changing focus of your vision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On my second tandem and ground school day I bought goggles. Then halfway through AFF I had my own helmet and altimeter and goggles. The only comment any of it queued was, "ok! Well at least I know you're serious!" And a chuckle. Besides it sucks using different equipment each jump. That applies to way more than altimeters!
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll bet the old timers, the real experts, not the self proclaimed one,,,will tell you that you are putting way to much reliance on the digital aspect,,,,,you need to rely on your sight picture,,not what some gizmo spews out...:S

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe


Digitals, though, fail with a dead screen, so you know it's dead. When an analog fails, it still shows something, just the wrong thing.



I've had digital alti's a couple thousand feet off (reading >4K when I was in my landing pattern, or reading -4K while in the plane), multiple occasions where the digital alti showed me its serial number in freefall (thanks...), multiple times where the battery/charge died (have to buy good quality batteries and keep an eye out when the weather turns colder - charges die much sooner), and one analog with a broken/missing needle (ok, now that's clear).

Buying an analog alti is never a bad move: you are definitely allowed to jump one, they are (much) cheaper than digital, no batteries needed, they can last a lifetime and they can be resold without losing much money should you want a digital alti later in your jumping career.
The only right answer if you're wanting to buy digital is to check with your instructor. Some DZs may not even allow students up to a certain level to jump digital.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GrayAnderson

I got an altimeter today that had a scuffed cover, which helped make today an experience I will not be repeating.



Ok so aside from the bickering about digital vs analog (which really doesn't matter since it's personal preference) I'm more curious how a scuff in the cover of your altimeter contributed to having an issue. Is this a case of blaming the gear for poor performance or am I misinterpreting what you wrote. If it is the former, perhaps you are focused on the wrong thing right now in this stage of your progression. If it is the latter then my apologies and everyone can carry on with their "my gear is better than your gear" debate.
www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Buying an analog alti is never a bad move: you are definitely allowed to jump one, they are (much) cheaper than digital, no batteries needed, they can last a lifetime and they can be resold without losing much money should you want a digital alti later in your jumping career.



I think this is the best advice in the thread. I've jumped an Altitrack for the past few years (but I waited till I found a good deal on a used one), which of course is a "digital analog"... the analog face / dial appeals to my analog brain, but it also has good digital features as well. However, my trusted Alti-2 Galaxy is always in my gear bag if I let the battery on the digital run out, or if someone needs to borrow an altimeter, or if the Altitrack gets buggy (which it has in the past).

Find and buy a good used altimeter - even if you switch later, you'll always appreciate having it.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mcordell

***I got an altimeter today that had a scuffed cover, which helped make today an experience I will not be repeating.



Ok so aside from the bickering about digital vs analog (which really doesn't matter since it's personal preference) I'm more curious how a scuff in the cover of your altimeter contributed to having an issue. Is this a case of blaming the gear for poor performance or am I misinterpreting what you wrote. If it is the former, perhaps you are focused on the wrong thing right now in this stage of your progression. If it is the latter then my apologies and everyone can carry on with their "my gear is better than your gear" debate.

And at the root of this, why was the alti not not inspected before being put on? Surely the alti should have been checked by the jumper and coach/instructor for proper zero on the ground and the legibility issue noted. If a damaged alti is missed and jumped what about more vital gear?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A good quality analog altimeter is a good investment. Low cost, reliable and allows you to choose something else later with more knowledge.

What a digital doesn't give you is a binary "danger zone" reading. As someone who unexpectedly found themselves in freefall approaching 1000 ft (before the days of AAD) I can tell you I am grateful for the red portion of the altimeter...
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nigel99

A good quality analog altimeter is a good investment. Low cost, reliable and allows you to choose something else later with more knowledge.

What a digital doesn't give you is a binary "danger zone" reading. As someone who unexpectedly found themselves in freefall approaching 1000 ft (before the days of AAD) I can tell you I am grateful for the red portion of the altimeter...



This made me think of something.
Why is there no digital altimeter with colors?
Imagine the background (around the numbers) beeing green, yellow and reddepending on the altitude.
And you could change the altitude when it changes in the settings.

I know it will use battery, but why not? It could be a setting if you wanted it on or off to save battery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hellis

***A good quality analog altimeter is a good investment. Low cost, reliable and allows you to choose something else later with more knowledge.

What a digital doesn't give you is a binary "danger zone" reading. As someone who unexpectedly found themselves in freefall approaching 1000 ft (before the days of AAD) I can tell you I am grateful for the red portion of the altimeter...



This made me think of something.
Why is there no digital altimeter with colors?
Imagine the background (around the numbers) beeing green, yellow and reddepending on the altitude.
And you could change the altitude when it changes in the settings.

I know it will use battery, but why not? It could be a setting if you wanted it on or off to save battery.

I think that colour display technology is more power hungry than mono. But not really an area of electronics I've had much experience with.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nigel99

******A good quality analog altimeter is a good investment. Low cost, reliable and allows you to choose something else later with more knowledge.

What a digital doesn't give you is a binary "danger zone" reading. As someone who unexpectedly found themselves in freefall approaching 1000 ft (before the days of AAD) I can tell you I am grateful for the red portion of the altimeter...



This made me think of something.
Why is there no digital altimeter with colors?
Imagine the background (around the numbers) beeing green, yellow and reddepending on the altitude.
And you could change the altitude when it changes in the settings.

I know it will use battery, but why not? It could be a setting if you wanted it on or off to save battery.

I think that colour display technology is more power hungry than mono. But not really an area of electronics I've had much experience with.

I bet it is, but is it that much more hungry that it becomes a problem? don't know...

Maybe a LED next to the screen would do, they don't use much.
But might also be a problem to see in bright sunlight?

Anyways, just a thought...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0