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Phil1111

Liz Truss, UK Conservative

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Both the final candidates were in the position of having to recognise that everything is currently shit and public services of all kinds have been spiralling into chaos and urgently need fixing…. while not acknowledging at all that 12 years of rule by their party means that they are the ones who have broken it all in the first place.

At least Sunak understood that money has to come from somewhere. Truss’s plan is to pay for all the urgent government investment in energy bills, health, covid debt etc with…. tax cuts. Or at least that’s what she told the true believer party members who actually got to vote this time round. Now the contest is over we’ll find out what she actually wants to do.

Edited by jakee

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1 hour ago, Stumpy said:

Thats because she is a disaster.

She sounds like a bit of a populist. BoJo lite, cut taxes, save environment, deal with energy crisis, health crisis, put more food on the table. All while not spending more money.

Or is she a sister to BoJo populism. How can have your cake, eat it and leave the table w/o paying.

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1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

She sounds like a bit of a populist. BoJo lite, cut taxes, save environment, deal with energy crisis, health crisis, put more food on the table. All while not spending more money.

Or is she a sister to BoJo populism. How can have your cake, eat it and leave the table w/o paying.

Yesterday I heard a UK-based comedian suggest that her plan for high energy bills this winter was that families huddle together whilst jacking it over a picture of Margaret Thatcher...Almost spit some coffee on that one!

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3 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

She sounds like a bit of a populist. BoJo lite, cut taxes, save environment, deal with energy crisis, health crisis, put more food on the table. All while not spending more money.

Or is she a sister to BoJo populism. How can have your cake, eat it and leave the table w/o paying.

Don’t forget her stated plan to take a flamethrower to all those pesky EU human rights laws that came from our time with Europe.

‘You know what will help the poor? 20 hour working days!!! And no unions!!’

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21 minutes ago, yoink said:

Don’t forget her stated plan to take a flamethrower to all those pesky EU human rights laws that came from our time with Europe.

‘You know what will help the poor? 20 hour working days!!! And no unions!!’

Yeah, like how the only thing standing in the way of our prosperity is having the work ethic of mainland China.

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On 9/7/2022 at 1:44 PM, Phil1111 said:

She sounds like a bit of a populist.

Not so much a populist as a true Thatcherite / neo-liberal / Reagonomics / free market believer. She's about to announce £30Bn of tax cuts primarily to the very wealthy, which will somehow pay for itself almost immediately because trickle down. Her Chancellor's first act will be scrapping the cap on bankers bonuses (introduced after the global crisis to discourage the rampant short-termism among investors that led to the destitution of millions in 2008) because he and Truss think it discourages banks from doing business in London.That's right, London. The second biggest and busiest financial centre in the world is, in her mind, struggling and needs help. Then there's the energy bill assistance which will cost £150Bn of tax payers money this winter... because most of it is being given to people who can pay their bills just fine anyway. Rich people in big houses will get several times more money given to them then the average person, and the poorest people who are struggling the most will get significantly less and in some cases nothing. 

 

It's genuinely hard to explain without coming to the conclusion that she really believes rich people are genuinely better and more deserving, and poor people are always to blame for not trying hard enough to change their situation. The only good news right now is that even elements of her own party are worried that her policies are so out of tune with the public that she's going to hand over the next election to Labour.

Tory MPs fear Liz Truss’s policies will create a ‘complete open goal’ for Labour

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31 minutes ago, jakee said:

Not so much a populist as a true Thatcherite / neo-liberal / Reagonomics / free market believer. She's about to announce £30Bn of tax cuts primarily to the very wealthy, which will somehow pay for itself almost immediately because trickle down. Her Chancellor's first act will be scrapping the cap on bankers bonuses (introduced after the global crisis to discourage the rampant short-termism among investors that led to the destitution of millions in 2008) because he and Truss think it discourages banks from doing business in London.That's right, London. The second biggest and busiest financial centre in the world is, in her mind, struggling and needs help. Then there's the energy bill assistance which will cost £150Bn of tax payers money this winter... because most of it is being given to people who can pay their bills just fine anyway. Rich people in big houses will get several times more money given to them then the average person, and the poorest people who are struggling the most will get significantly less and in some cases nothing. 

 

It's genuinely hard to explain without coming to the conclusion that she really believes rich people are genuinely better and more deserving, and poor people are always to blame for not trying hard enough to change their situation. The only good news right now is that even elements of her own party are worried that her policies are so out of tune with the public that she's going to hand over the next election to Labour.

Tory MPs fear Liz Truss’s policies will create a ‘complete open goal’ for Labour

Hi jakee,

I found this interesting; from your link:  While some wonder privately if Kwarteng is secretly working for the Labour party, one former minister dismisses the idea. “I totally disagree,” they said. “There is nothing secret about it.”

Who's on first?

Jerry Baumchen

 

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On 9/18/2022 at 8:28 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi jakee,

I found this interesting; from your link:  While some wonder privately if Kwarteng is secretly working for the Labour party, one former minister dismisses the idea. “I totally disagree,” they said. “There is nothing secret about it.”

There's another take on their policies here: "Trickle-down economics is as ghoulish, greedy and gross as it appears." He rambles a bit so I wouldn't expect people to listen to much but it starts quite pithily "I'd tell you a joke about trickle down economics but you probably won't get it".

 

So the briefest background - the UK gov't have just committed to spending £200Bn+ on help with energy bills (a figure that is only so huge because it offers the most help to people who don't need it). Their strategy of how to pay for it is £50Bn pounds a year of tax cuts (again the vast majority of it to people who already take home tons of money after tax) in the hope that this will somehow stimulate the economy to the extent that everyone will suddenly be paid loads more money.

 

Now here's what I don't get, and maybe someone can help. We know that the economic strata in society are significantly further away from each other than they've ever been before. We know that rich people have more money than ever before and we know that they have more of the pot of money than ever before - yet the problems that tax cuts for the rich are supposed to solve still exist. So the proponents of trickle down economics must believe that there is some point at which shareholders and company owners decide they have enough money, and they can forego further profit in favour of now taking care of their employees. We just haven't quite reached that point yet, but it's juuuuust around the corner. How do they tell themselves that this makes sense? That this is a realistic outcome of their policies?

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4 hours ago, jakee said:

That this is a realistic outcome of their policies?

The true desired outcome of all these policies is to force smaller government with less services. It is like a holy mission. 

Edited by gowlerk
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6 hours ago, gowlerk said:

The true desired outcome of all these policies is to force smaller government with less services. It is like a holy mission. 

True. I do believe that if covid hadn’t happened the Tories would currently be privatising the NHS (after spending 10 years intentionally sabotaging it so they’d have an excuse).

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Tax cuts, the largest in decades have driven down the pound. UK equities have fallen and interest rates are up. So the markets are calling it all a "F".

trump's economic policies have landed in England. God save the King....er... Ah well he'll come out OK along with the rich.

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4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Tax cuts, the largest in decades have driven down the pound. UK equities have fallen and interest rates are up. So the markets are calling it all a "F".

Which underscores how huge this gamble is. Committing to staggering amounts of extra borrowing to pay the bills in the hope that this plan will boost the economy so much that tax revenues will eventually go up despite the reduced rates. But when? And how?

 

Apparently someone making £200k a year will take home an extra £5k under this plan. But what are they going to do with it?   Realise they can suddenly afford a new TV? Unlikely, they’ll probably just save it for retirement (which the country can’t afford to wait for) or put it towards the next house purchase and further inflate a housing market already inaccessible to most younger people.

 

On the other hand you could give £500 back to someone on the breadline and the whole thing will make its way back into the economy almost immediately. But that’d be a problem because that’s ‘a handout’.

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17 hours ago, jakee said:

Which underscores how huge this gamble is. ... But that’d be a problem because that’s ‘a handout’.

Think of all the new Rolls Royce cars that will be sold. Britain's auto industry will be reborn.

...Oh Yeah.... I guess the Germans already own RR.

Well with the cheap pound Russians will buy whats left of the UK that they don't already own.

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19 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Think of all the new Rolls Royce cars that will be sold. Britain's auto industry will be reborn.

That is the ‘logic’ apparently. 
 

Now keep in mind this is the same Conservative party that took us out of the EU, out of the single market and cut us out of freedom of work and movement in the biggest economic area in the world. Turns out they slashed the top level tax rate because it turns out the thing that’ll be really great for the economy is to attract more immigrants to take the highest paid jobs available in this country. So tell us again why Brexit was supposed to be so great?

 

I’m starting to think the last 12 years of Tory government have really been the largest bit of absurdist performance art since Andy Kaufman pretended to be dead.

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On 9/25/2022 at 9:54 AM, jakee said:

That is the ‘logic’ apparently. 
 

Now keep in mind this is the same Conservative party that took us out of the EU, out of the single market and cut us out of freedom of work and movement in the biggest economic area in the world. Turns out they slashed the top level tax rate because it turns out the thing that’ll be really great for the economy is to attract more immigrants to take the highest paid jobs available in this country. So tell us again why Brexit was supposed to be so great?

 

I’m starting to think the last 12 years of Tory government have really been the largest bit of absurdist performance art since Andy Kaufman pretended to be dead.

Given that the last 12 years of Tory government has been a massive exercise in transferring vast amounts of public finances into the pockets and bank accounts of a select few Tory faithful, I'd say that they're well on track.

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In more statements so ironic they must be doing it on purpose, senior Tories are now claiming to be really angry at currency traders pushing down the pound, saying they're just 'trying to make money out of bad news'.

 

Where to start? If they're admitting that Kwarteng's budget is bad news then how can they be angry at anyone but themselves? Then, Truss and Kwarteng have barely talked about anything else but increasing the ability of those in the financial sector to make more money because it will magically benefit everyone else. The Tories as a whole have always fought against increased regulation of banking and trading and are right now rolling back some of the regulation created in the wake of the global crash to curb the ability of bankers to do really dangerous things for short term gain. Now they claim to be angry that those same people took an opportunity to do their job and make money by betting against their own naive economic policies? I guess they never listened to Al Wilson.

 

"I saved you," cried that woman "And you've bit me even, why?

You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die"

"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin

"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in!"

 

 

Edited by jakee

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