Horizontal Relative Work

[megamalfunction 1]

In the past few years I've been on a lot of tracking dives, and seem to keep having problems staying in close proximity with whomever I'm jumping. Either I'm too fast and high, too low and slow, too high and slow, or maybe even too low and fast. Anybody else experiencing the same problems?

[yoink 321]

You've not been on enough tracking dives yet then...

If you've got a decent rabbit who can maintain a constant fall rate and forward speed, everything else is your fault. It's a little harsh to put it like that, but it's true. If your rabbit can't do that, get a new one...

Like everything else in skydiving, dress for success. Unless you know you're going on a maxed out dive, pick a suit that gives you a good range of fall rates. For me, it was always just a simple FF suit. No booties, nothing complicated.

other than that, 2 way practice dives can be better for your progress than multiple way tracking dives. Get someone good to lead with video, then debrief properly after. They may need to cant their video mount slightly to get good video if you approach flat.

[chuckakers 369]

megamalfunction

In the past few years I've been on a lot of tracking dives, and seem to keep having problems staying in close proximity with whomever I'm jumping. Either I'm too fast and high, too low and slow, too high and slow, or maybe even too low and fast. Anybody else experiencing the same problems?

If your bio is correct you may be a statistic in waiting. IMO, 139 jumps is a very low number to be playing with tracking dives, and depending on your combination of jumps vs time, a 7 year period is VERY stretched out for jumping in general, let alone for participating in what has proven to be one of the highest risk disciplines in the sport.

Your post clearly demonstrates that things could go horribly wrong on your next jump. Without more detailed information on your jumping history and the jumps you are referring to, there's no way to offer solid advice. Can you give us a bit of background on your currency, jumping frequency, etc.?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[megamalfunction 1]

Thanks for the advice chuckakers. That reminds me of some other advice I received one time. I was jumping at a little non-uspa dropzone, and someone from the big turbine dropzone happened to be there doing tandems and told me, "you need to watch out jumping here, there's no one here to watch out for you..." Well on the next load, this person happened to eat shit on landing, and broke their passengers ankle. So maybe you need to watch it with the 'accident predictions', the next accident might be your own.

[megamalfunction 1]

And furthermore: Country music @#$%ing sucks Chuck Akers.

[megamalfunction 1]

So go do some more student position you pussy!

[Krip 2]

megamalfunction

So go do some more student position you pussy!

Amazing attitude

Chuck has been there and done that and this is the best you can come up with.

A simple thank you chuck would have been adequate instead of a shit sandwich.

One Jump Wonder

[Kadde 0]

That escalated quickly...

[Transmitter 0]

That escalated quickly...

[chuckakers 369]

megamalfunction

Thanks for the advice chuckakers. That reminds me of some other advice I received one time. I was jumping at a little non-uspa dropzone, and someone from the big turbine dropzone happened to be there doing tandems and told me, "you need to watch out jumping here, there's no one here to watch out for you..." Well on the next load, this person happened to eat shit on landing, and broke their passengers ankle. So maybe you need to watch it with the 'accident predictions', the next accident might be your own.

I didn't offer any advice, and you have quite an attitude for a person asking for help.

My post was sincere Sparky, but if you don't want to provide enough information for us clueless old f*ckers to help, so be it. Of course you may not know that the vast majority of AAD saves over the past few years have been from botched horizontal skydives. Might want to consider that before turning away assistance from your peers.

And yes, it is entirely possible that the next accident is my own. Not probable, but possible. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances, ya know.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[dzswoop717 5]

Chuck, You answered that jab at you so eliquently. I wish I had the Polite gene in my body when it comes to listening to people like the OP. I have pretty much quit going to DZs to skydive because they are full of People like this. I recently got a private message from a similar type person telling me he was going to kick my teeth in for calling him out for over stating his experience. If we old dinosours see answers like you just got and stop replying to them when they have questions, they may go away. Their handles should be DIGIT followed by a number.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

One of the guys who does the canopy courses at my home DZ also teaches a tracking and advanced tracking course on a regular basis. Maybe check and see if something similar is offered where you're jumping? I haven't taken it yet, but it's on my to-do list. I'll probably do it next spring sometime.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

dzswoop717

... If we old dinosours see answers like you just got and stop replying to them when they have questions, they may go away. Their handles should be DIGIT followed by a number.

I'm not an "old dinosaur" (yet), but I don't mind answering questions like this.

They don't know. And if they have sketchy instructors, they won't know.

So they come on here and ask.
People like Chuck give them solid, reasonable, usable advice. Usually presented in a "no-nonsense" manner.

Some people listen, others don't.

Just because some won't listen doesn't mean all of them don't.

And there's a lot of new guys who are reading, but not posting. They have these same questions, but wait for someone else to ask.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Lukasz_Se 2]

megamalfunction

In the past few years I've been on a lot of tracking dives, and seem to keep having problems staying in close proximity with whomever I'm jumping. Either I'm too fast and high, too low and slow, too high and slow, or maybe even too low and fast. Anybody else experiencing the same problems?

I love tracking! Alone, with others, steep (angle), tracking suit...but yeah it takes time to get reasonably good (and safe) while flying with others, I still have lots of work to be happy about my flying. My worst close call was when I was supposed to be "the rabbit" on what seemed like a relaxed, easy 3 way tracking dive. I was a foot or so from a very violent collision with another jumper which could easly break my neck/knock me out. So be carefull, differences in speed between jumpers can be huge. Coaching with video is the best what you can do.

[dzswoop717 5]

My reply is about the OPs smart ass response to chuck. If I didn't make it clear enough, I meant it to mean, When a person answers back with a smart ass remark instead of with a thank you or more questions, for the advice that was given them from an old fart, then we should just ignore them. Chucks answer was correct and too the point, the OP answered with a smart ass remark. He obviously doesn't want to learn from someone who has experience and probably has seen, first hand, the Tracking ZOO dives that people throw together. I would happily give advice to a beginner if they have a good attitude and good questions. I rarely give advice on here because there are far more knowledgable people already giving the correct answers to them.

[yoink 321]

I didn't even look at your experience or jumping history when I posted my advice - which is my mistake.


Chuck is right. Tracking dives do have a higher than normal potential for turning into a zoo-way. Stay off the bigger ways until your skills are a bit more dialed in and that's not because I don't want you to have fun, but because you won't learn much, AND you'll be at risk.
A good tracking dive is as planned as any FS jump. Everyone has a slot to fly and a planned approach. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be on that jump - it puts everyone in danger.

The 8 or 10 ways sunset dives which used to get thrown together on the way to the plane were (now I'm looking back on it with experience), fucking stupid to put it lightly.

Definitely get coaching - it's by far the safest and quickest way for you to proceed. Get the basics nailed with a good coach and you'll instantly start doing better. Being the guy who can reliably get to his slot on a dive ALWAYS gets noticed.

[earth2eric 12]

Tracking is more like freeflying. It's dynamic. Most people don't dedicate a lot of time to it either, so even though they have 500 skydives, or even 1000, matching a particular fall rate/forward drive can be a little wonky. Definitely keep it small to work on your skills. If you don't know your brakes, and you have trouble going exactly where you want to go, there's no reason to make bigger jumps, you'll end up adding risk and decreasing your learning experience. I have a good amount of track dives and my most favorite and memorable ones have been two and three ways with good friends. You might see organizing for big track dives, and you'll want to join because you'll look at it and say "all these people are experienced, all these people are my friends, I trust these people." But it's not about that. In order for track dives to go smoothly it takes a lot of good flying and teamwork, but what ends up happening is a rabbit who can't fly straight, people with tunnel vision who want the dock or the closest slot, and people who can't keep up. They can get scary real quick. Nothing worse then breaking off from a skydive wondering where all your friends are :D Treat tracking dives with a huge amount of respect. Have fun and be safe, and good job for seeking out information!

[dzswoop717 5]

Excellent reply. Now we are waiting for the OPs smart ass remark.

Man, I am turning into one of those old guys at the dz who use to give me shit when I was a hot shot 100 jump wonder.

[rehmwa 2]

yoink

You've not been on enough tracking dives yet then...

just started trying angle flying and this is me - I do fine until someone adjusts and then I overcompensate and BAM - playing catchup.

great fun - I'm looking forward to more reps and getting better. (much like every other discipline in skydiving)

edit (wry): apparently the burbles are in different locations than in RW or freeflying too. how about that?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JBR 0]

Far more polite than I would have been Chuck. I have one tracking jump to my name and it resulted in a very low pull, if the OP's numbers are correct I am considerably more current but by my own admission lack mad skills. I'll work on tracking jumps after getting the other stuff right.

[JohnMitchell 14]

megamalfunction

So maybe you need to watch it with the 'accident predictions', the next accident might be your own.

I admire your over-confidence.

How many funerals have you been to?

[Yanni 0]

As mentioned above tracking is very dynamic and is a skill in itself. Keep it small until you hone your skills in a variety of angles and expand your effective tracking range. An experienced rabbit that can maintain a consistent track will go a long ways in your learning curve. When I get on a tracking dive I will not only consider the size of the group but also the ratio of experienced/inexperienced trackers within the group. Even with a small group have a solid game plan and cover all the what ifs during the dirt dive. If it doesn't feel right opt out. Smaller groups that operate smoothly are a lot more fore fun than finding yourself in the middle of a shit show. Its a lurning curve be safe, find proper guidance, and use good judgment. People are just looking out for you and everyone else bud. Tracking dives can get messy quick dont forget to respect them.

Door! Green! Enjoy