Bridal wrapped around canopy

[cborowsky1 3]

Hi! 

On my 75th jump this weekend, I pitched at 4K. I was jumping a Sabre II and am used to an 800' to 1000' snivel. When I opened and looked at the alti, it read 3K, no problems. I looked up and noticed my bridal underneath my canopy with the pilot chute sitting at the nose of the canopy on top. The pilot chute then did what it's supposed to and inflated with air. This caused a small bow tie appearance to my main canopy. All of a sudden, my cells depressurized and I went into a stall for maybe :02. After that, the cells re-inflated for about :05. 2,600' now. My cells then depressurized again and took me into a very hard downward left spiral. I tried to correct with a mix of right toggle as well as right rear riser with virtually no input. I looked down and was at 2,200' and so I chopped. I'm curious, did I do everything I could do? Was there an alternative to having to cut away? Thank you in advance. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by cborowsky1
added photo

[gowlerk 1,911]

As far as I'm concerned the only possible thing that just maybe you might have done better would be to cut away a little sooner. Like when the spiral began at 2600 instead for attempting to fix it. But you did good work in any case.

[wmw999 2,121]

That result is exactly what dz.com is here for

Wendy P.

[riggerrob 558]

Dear cbrowsky1,

In encourage you to chat with an instructor or canopy-coach about re-trying rear-riser flares and stalls.

Perhaps you just need a gentler technique and more awareness of airflow over your canopy.

For example, pull rear risers to the edge of a stall, they gently raise them a couple of inches (5cm) to resume slow flight.

Again, consult a local canopy coach before re-trying rear-riser stalls.

[kleggo 138]

Sounds like you handled it well.

I would have stalled the canopy and flown it backwards for a bit to see if it would clear, but YOU made the correct decisions based on YOUR equipment and experience.

Bravo.

[jimmytavino 16]

if i ever  saw  the  bridle Under  the bottom  skin   ???
  And  the  Pilot chute UP  and  Over  
The  leading  edge ???   3  words  >>  Peel  and  Pull  ;-) 
No  toggles  no  rears,   chop  and  reserve. This  sounds  like  one  of  those  pictures  which  students  were  shown,,, 
While  In  a  Hanging  Harness !!!  "  Under  a  Reserve "  beats  a  lot  of  other  scenarios.   This  jumper  handled  it  well. 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by jimmytavino

[cborowsky1 3]

9 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

As far as I'm concerned the only possible thing that just maybe you might have done better would be to cut away a little sooner. Like when the spiral began at 2600 instead for attempting to fix it. But you did good work in any case.

Cool and thank you very much for the feedback. I really do appreciate it. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by cborowsky1

[dudeman17 270]

I agree with what gowlerk has said.

Pilot chute and/or bridle over the nose is addressed in the FJC. The standard response is to do a control check and see if it causes you problems. But you didn't get that far, it was already causing problems. So think it through. If you had managed to wrangle it under control, what would you do, go ahead and land it? Then what if it starts to cause problems again... under a grand? in the pattern? on final?? No, cutting away was the correct response.

The only other thing I would add is, if you haven't already done so, then it sounds like two cases of beer should be involved... One for your rigger (who packed your reserve), and the other for the dz because I'm guessing that was your first cutaway. Congrats! 

Edited August 29, 2022 by dudeman17

[cborowsky1 3]

21 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

I agree with what gowlerk has said.

Pilot chute and/or bridle over the nose is addressed in the FJC. The standard response is to do a control check and see if it causes you problems. But you didn't get that far, it was already causing problems. So think it through. If you had managed to wrangle it under control, what would you do, go ahead and land it? Then what if it starts to cause problems again... under a grand? in the pattern? on final?? No, cutting away was the correct response.

The only other thing I would add is, if you haven't already done so, then it sounds like two cases of beer should be involved... One for your rigger (who packed your reserve), and the other for the dz because I'm guessing that was your first cutaway. Congrats! 

Hey thanks so much man! I greatly appreciate the response and the advise. One of my thoughts definitely was, "I don't want this happening any lower than where I'm at" and so I chopped it. You're the man dude. 

[cborowsky1 3]

Thanks everyone, after further conversation, this groups thread and google, I've come to the conclusion that both instances(yes this then happened  5 jumps later at jump #80 which yielded another cutaway) were due to an aggressive rear riser stall causing the pilot chute to then wrap around the nose of the canopy. 

Somewhere along the way, I either incorrectly learned or incorrectly thought I learned to fix an end cell being out with aggressive tension on the rear risers. I fly a 1.1 wing loading currently. Additionally, I'm much more built physically/stronger than most (I'm not being a bro about this), but seriously likely misjudging my level of strength when I was pulling on the rear risers and holding.

Since then, I've left the rear risers alone all together for the time being, learned the correct way to handle there being an end cell out (I'm aware that a canopy is totally fly-able with an end cell or a few out), and since then it's not repeated itself. 

I hope that this thread helps someone one day. Thank you guys very much. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by cborowsky1

[cborowsky1 3]

Thank you! 

[cborowsky1 3]

@riggerrob

Thanks so much! So I go to a very busy DZ (Mile Hi, Denver CO) where they typically mandate a canopy course to go over what you mentioned as well. I simply haven't been able to get on the schedule, and I'm totally looking forward to learning more about this topic once in it. I couldn't agree with you more, thank you. 

[cborowsky1 3]

On 10/20/2022 at 2:03 PM, kleggo said:

Sounds like you handled it well.

I would have stalled the canopy and flown it backwards for a bit to see if it would clear, but YOU made the correct decisions based on YOUR equipment and experience.

Bravo.

And that's effectively exactly what happened. I rode it for a bit on the 1st time it happened and cut it. I've learned a LOT about canopy flight, etc. since this incident as it's forced me to do my research, etc. Pretty funny now in hindsight, but that's how we learn. 

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like the original poster raised his rear risers or toggles too quickly.

The key to recovering from stalls is to GENTLY raise your toggles or rear risers. I teach junior jumpers to practice stalls by slowly pulling toggles down to their hips until they feel the canopy rock backwards. 

To recover, I teach them to raise toggles to belt level and pause for a few seconds until the canopy is definitely flying forward, then raise toggles all the way.