Why Groupon is headed to "0"....

[baronn 111]

The latest qtr's results speak for themselves. Nobody renews with Groupon. And why would they? I contacted them about running a promo and this is what they wanted. Sell a tandem for 145 and Groupon would take 72.50 of that. Huh? These people have no concept of what it takes to run a business. Short the stock. Easiest money you will ever make.

[chuckakers 370]

baronn

The latest qtr's results speak for themselves. Nobody renews with Groupon. And why would they? I contacted them about running a promo and this is what they wanted. Sell a tandem for 145 and Groupon would take 72.50 of that. Huh? These people have no concept of what it takes to run a business. Short the stock. Easiest money you will ever make.

The Groupon business model works for some products and business models and not for others, and I seriously doubt they are headed for doom.

Companies get best results from a relationship with Groupon when trying to promote growth, not profit. That by default means there will be a diminishing renewal rate as a business moves from a growth to a profit strategy.

Additionally, Groupon works best for products with higher profit margins where businesses can allow a deep commission to them and still either make a profit or use the promotion to drive addition sales.

As I understand it the client controls the retail price. If a DZ can't make money at $145 minus commission, it has the option to adjust numbers until it works for that business. If the business can't find a balance between discounted pricing and commissions paid out, so be it. Go elsewhere.

Let's also not forget that declines in renewal/sales rates are also due to increasing competition in the online couponing game stacked with companies cutting thin deals to grow (sound familiar?) and new online promotional strategies that never stop being developed.

I'm not disputing that the company is in decline. It may be. However you seem to be attributing any decline to the single cause of not cutting what you see as lucrative deals to businesses - in this case DZO's - and that is a macro opinion at best.

Spending time pontificating on the decline of a promotional partner is wasting precious resources that could be better spent focusing on finding relationships worth bragging about and profiting from.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[grimmie 173]

Why sell a tandem for $145 on their website when you can do it on your own DZ website and keep 100%?

Why sell a tandem for $145 when Skyride sells them all day long for $289 on their website?

But that's all a topic for another day on another thread.

[peek 20]

grimmie

Why sell a tandem for $145 on their website when you can do it on your own DZ website and keep 100%?

One of the reasons that I have heard for using services like Groupon (and Skyride) is that many DZOs do not know anything about what to put on their web sites to attract the attention of search engines (and don't seem to care to learn), so they just give up and wait for business to come to them through Groupon and Skyride.

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Why sell a tandem for $145 when Skyride sells them all day long for $289 on their website?

This is a point made by James LaBarrie in one of his recent newsletters. Skyride has (without really meaning to) done the research on that for us. They have demonstrated that people are willing to pay much more for a tandem jump than most DZs are charging.

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But that's all a topic for another day on another thread.

Heck no, let's talk about it now! It's fun.

[yoink 321]

Not everything in the world is to do with skydiving... that's one of the attitudes that bugs me most about skydivers.

The groupon model may not work for dz's (although I don't see why it shouldn't), but as far as I understand it, the share loss this quarter was due to 2 large purchases and greater than expected marketing investment. A $45m bill you weren't expecting would have an effect on anyone's share price.
They've sold 20% more groupons this year (at 3/4 billion dollars) and (ignoring one-time purchases) did better than they were expecting.

To go from that, to 'short the stock' and relating both of those to a single interaction of a (very) minority sport is just daft.


If you don't like what they're suggesting, don't use them. It's not rocket science.
Hell - you've probably got someone who jumps at your DZ who works with websites. It's a pretty common skill. Offer them a certain number of free lifts every weekend for doing the IT and marketing stuff for you and do without groupon alltogether.

[DiverMike 5]

People have been predicting the demise of Groupon for years. From June 2011:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/13/why-groupon-is-poised-for-collapse/

Quote

To go from that, to 'short the stock' and relating both of those to a single interaction of a (very) minority sport is just daft.

+1

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[chuckakers 370]

peek

***Why sell a tandem for $145 on their website when you can do it on your own DZ website and keep 100%?

One of the reasons that I have heard for using services like Groupon (and Skyride) is that many DZOs do not know anything about what to put on their web sites to attract the attention of search engines (and don't seem to care to learn), so they just give up and wait for business to come to them through Groupon and Skyride.

By far the biggest advantage of using services like Groupon is market reach. Search engine friendly or not, putting a special price on a DZ website does nothing to attract previously unaffected consumers. It only gives a discount to a consumer who was already looking for the product (they came to the website, the website didn't go to them) and who may have purchased the product at full price anyway. Not very smart. With Groupon and similar services, the DZ's special price is hand delivered to a consumer who may have either never considered skydiving or who knows enough about it to know that the advertised price is a *good deal*. Using Groupon is simply a way of getting the product in front of the consumer and discount pricing is the way to get the consumer to take action.

Unless a DZ has access to a list of thousands (or tens or even hundreds of thousands in big markets) of good e-mail addresses of real consumers in the DZ's market area, they can't dream of having the reach of Groupon. Yes, DZ's can rent/buy e-mail lists, but often spam filters keep those messages from reaching the consumer's inbox. With Groupon the consumer has pre-approved the e-mails to reach the inbox by subscribing to the service and in fact the consumer often looks forward to getting the e-mails to see what *hot deal* they are being offered.

Online coupon services are not suited for every product or every company within an industry. When properly used they do drive sales very effectively. With a product like skydiving, try finding a balance between published retail price, discounted price and commissions paid, and most importantly create a plan for pushing additional sales once the customer is on the DZ. If the customer buys the video package and a t-shirt or two, the DZ gets a lot of the commission & discount back. If the customer brings a friend along for a jump at full price the DZ cuts the loss, and if the DZ plays the hand well the customer may stick around and we get more licensed skydivers to buy gear and fill airplane seats.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[BillyVance 34]

peek

***Why sell a tandem for $145 on their website when you can do it on your own DZ website and keep 100%?

One of the reasons that I have heard for using services like Groupon (and Skyride) is that many DZOs do not know anything about what to put on their web sites to attract the attention of search engines (and don't seem to care to learn), so they just give up and wait for business to come to them through Groupon and Skyride.

Which is why DZOs need to visit jumpdude's skyride ripoff info website and contact him on how to maximize their web visibility.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[diablopilot 2]

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I seriously doubt they are headed for doom.

Maybe not doom, but in the last year their stock value has dropped by half.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[chuckakers 370]

diablopilot

Quote

I seriously doubt they are headed for doom.

Maybe not doom, but in the last year their stock value has dropped by half.

Stock prices can fluctuate for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is over or under valuation adjustments. In a world fraught with new ideas beat out by newer ideas and market players always hungry for the next big thing, stocks can carry earnings ratios that are madly off the norm for years before correcting.

For reference, Groupon stock took a nosedive over a 1 year period in the past, from more than $26 per share to less than $3. They didn't go out of business then and a year later the price had more than tripled.

The company could get buried by a new player or concept tomorrow, or could bury all the competition because of a new concept it develops tomorrow.

That's the world of tech stocks and why wild swings have little to do with a company's future viability or profitability.

BTW Brean Capital just gave Groupon a "buy" rating yesterday, saying the stock is undervalued based on recent sales.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Jumpdude 0]

It was said earlier in the thread something about the middle men bringing in people who were not looking for skydiving or not even on their radar, well the question I have is, why can't the DZO's do their own marketing and insert their sites and ads in markets that have no relation to skydiving? Like when a web surfer is looking to buy a new car, or maybe take a cruise, why not insert an ad in those searches? The point is, one of the things I've learned thru the years of exposing the sLyride/Cary Q scam is how they market to have become so successful, and I'm not talking about the scam part of it all. I mean, like, a person is looking to order a pizza, and a skydiving ad shows up. Totally unrelated subjects, but the idea is planted in that person's mind. Not saying that person will jump, but if they do, the DZ wins!
Here's some ideas, run ads in singles activities markets.
Get in your Google Adwords acct, if you don't have one, create one, run ads on Plenty of Fish, Date Hook Up, OK Cupid and the other dating sites. Chances are, if someone is on a dating site, they are single, lonely and looking for something to brighten their lives. Now, those ads do cost a little, but it can be MUCH more profitable than using middle men! Go one step further, make a profile! Communicate with people on those sites, and those are free to do!
Advertise as vacation destinations! Get with travelocity, orbitz or the others.
Here's another one that I'm working on for my area, get with the area Limo companies and get them to add your DZ to their list of excursions! Offer the limo company a small cut, still smaller than the middle men. This particular deal is a win for everyone, the DZ and the customer gets the jump, the limo company gets the hours on the car,, win win! I can tell you that people who use Black Car Services (limos) usually have lots of money and care what it cost and if their assistant does their booking, they may not even know what it cost.
Anyway, the bottom line is cut the middle men out, and watch your profits increase greatly!

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[chuckakers 370]

Jumpdude

It was said earlier in the thread something about the middle men bringing in people who were not looking for skydiving or not even on their radar, well the question I have is, why can't the DZO's do their own marketing and insert their sites and ads in markets that have no relation to skydiving? Like when a web surfer is looking to buy a new car, or maybe take a cruise, why not insert an ad in those searches? The point is, one of the things I've learned thru the years of exposing the sLyride/Cary Q scam is how they market to have become so successful, and I'm not talking about the scam part of it all. I mean, like, a person is looking to order a pizza, and a skydiving ad shows up. Totally unrelated subjects, but the idea is planted in that person's mind. Not saying that person will jump, but if they do, the DZ wins!
Here's some ideas, run ads in singles activities markets.
Get in your Google Adwords acct, if you don't have one, create one, run ads on Plenty of Fish, Date Hook Up, OK Cupid and the other dating sites. Chances are, if someone is on a dating site, they are single, lonely and looking for something to brighten their lives. Now, those ads do cost a little, but it can be MUCH more profitable than using middle men! Go one step further, make a profile! Communicate with people on those sites, and those are free to do!
Advertise as vacation destinations! Get with travelocity, orbitz or the others.
Here's another one that I'm working on for my area, get with the area Limo companies and get them to add your DZ to their list of excursions! Offer the limo company a small cut, still smaller than the middle men. This particular deal is a win for everyone, the DZ and the customer gets the jump, the limo company gets the hours on the car,, win win! I can tell you that people who use Black Car Services (limos) usually have lots of money and care what it cost and if their assistant does their booking, they may not even know what it cost.
Anyway, the bottom line is cut the middle men out, and watch your profits increase greatly!

Your cross marketing ideas are worthy and have proven successful for DZ operators in the past. Relationships with service providers like limo companies, tour operators and the like are often profitable, and if the deal includes a bird dog fee the DZ doesn't pay for the relationship until it works. And since you are doing work on the subject, let me throw you a bone. One of the best partnerships going is with concierges at luxury hotels. They get asked for entertain ideas by and for fat cats more often than nearly anyone anywhere and will cut deals with vendors for a handful of dollars. I suppose it helps that they typically get big tips from their guests for hooking them up with really cool stuff in the market, so they don't work the vendor connection too hard for big commissions.

As for your suggestion that DZ's arrange online ads to pop up on unrelated websites or subjects, that often creates a danger zone of diminishing return and should be metered based on reach vs focus. People surfing for a cruise or a car may or may or may not be the same people who could be enticed to make a jump. Remember that the most valuable thing about internet marketing is the ability to target the advertising to specific demographics and consumer profiles to maximize ad dollars. Each time we "reach out" we also dilute the dollars per hit.

A DZ would likely be better off running ads that show up when web surfers look for things like scuba diving and flying lessons or car racing tracks and ski resorts. That way they are putting the message in front of like-minded consumers rather than a bunch of overweight cruisers who just want a deck chair, some shuffleboard, and an all-you-can eat buffet.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Jumpdude 0]

chuckakers

Your cross marketing ideas are worthy and have proven successful for DZ operators in the past. Relationships with service providers like limo companies, tour operators and the like are often profitable, and if the deal includes a bird dog fee the DZ doesn't pay for the relationship until it works. And since you are doing work on the subject, let me throw you a bone. One of the best partnerships going is with concierges at luxury hotels. They get asked for entertain ideas by and for fat cats more often than nearly anyone anywhere and will cut deals with vendors for a handful of dollars. I suppose it helps that they typically get big tips from their guests for hooking them up with really cool stuff in the market, so they don't work the vendor connection too hard for big commissions.

I agree and the Concierges are one element that I've started talking to, and they are interested, so that's in the works as well.

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As for your suggestion that DZ's arrange online ads to pop up on unrelated websites or subjects, that often creates a danger zone of diminishing return and should be metered based on reach vs focus. People surfing for a cruise or a car may or may or may not be the same people who could be enticed to make a jump. Remember that the most valuable thing about internet marketing is the ability to target the advertising to specific demographics and consumer profiles to maximize ad dollars. Each time we "reach out" we also dilute the dollars per hit.

The car or cruise was meant to be an example, but could be a target audience as well. The point was to exhibit how cross marketing could work, but you got the idea.

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A DZ would likely be better off running ads that show up when web surfers look for things like scuba diving and flying lessons or car racing tracks and ski resorts. That way they are putting the message in front of like-minded consumers rather than a bunch of overweight cruisers who just want a deck chair, some shuffleboard, and an all-you-can eat buffet.

I do agree with you on that as well but IMHO, to work that market only and not the ones not already looking to jump, it narrows the audience to the fast lane type who may likely eventually look for skydiving anyway, but not saying that's not a needed target audience, just that I think it's a good idea to still target other markets. That's why I added the idea of the dating sites.

[cjdskydiver 4]

chuckakers

***

Quote

I seriously doubt they are headed for doom.

Maybe not doom, but in the last year their stock value has dropped by half.

Stock prices can fluctuate for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is over or under valuation adjustments. In a world fraught with new ideas beat out by newer ideas and market players always hungry for the next big thing, stocks can carry earnings ratios that are madly off the norm for years before correcting.

For reference, Groupon stock took a nosedive over a 1 year period in the past, from more than $26 per share to less than $3. They didn't go out of business then and a year later the price had more than tripled.

The company could get buried by a new player or concept tomorrow, or could bury all the competition because of a new concept it develops tomorrow.

That's the world of tech stocks and why wild swings have little to do with a company's future viability or profitability.

BTW Brean Capital just gave Groupon a "buy" rating yesterday, saying the stock is undervalued based on recent sales.

Yeah, take a look at the stock price today, big jump...earnings/revenue beat, positive analyst view plus upgrades.....I initially got in when it was in the $3 range, recently added some in the $5-6 range...sure, it's a gamble, but then so is life...

[mbohu 77]

I hope that reviving ancient threads is not against the rules of conduct here. If so: I apologize.

But I've noticed these posts about Groupons and Marketing, and it reminds me of my own industry, where most business owners are doing this out of passion and are not the most knowledgeable about marketing and such things. So here's my 2 cents:

1. One of the most important things to figure out to decide on marketing strategies and if Groupons and such are worth it:
Figure out your average customer lifetime value for Tandem students. I.E: Over the entire period a customer comes to your DZ (one that started as a Tandem student), how much money do they spend on average (including videos, return tandems, AFF courses, etc.--if you are more sophisticated, figure out how many people they refer on average) So you need to be able to tag all customers that start as tandems and track their spending
If you have tagged all customers who start as Tandems it's easy. Add up all the income from them and divide this by the number of such customers. That's your average lifetime spending for them.

Based on that you know how much money you can spend on acquiring the customer. For example: If their average lifetime spend is $600, your average profit margin is 50%, you are making $300 per average tandem student.
So, if you spend less than that to acquire the customer, you are making a profit. If more, you're going down--go for the cut-off!)
So for Groupon: Let's say your regular Tandem price is $250, you are discounting it to $175 and Groupon takes half, so you get $ 72.50; that means you are spending $172.50 to acquire the customer ($250 - $72.50) In this case it might be worthwhile.

2. Set it up so that you always have an up-sell for each Groupon customer that a large percentage will take (experiment & track what works best). This could be video or, like at a DZ I recently visited: Their Groupon offer was a jump from 8000ft and they offered jumps from 12k, 15k and 18k. Once the customer was at the DZ they explained why you'd have a much better experience with the higher exit points and many upgraded.

3. Yes, Groupon's business model is unnerving: They get a huge cut. It might not work for DZs at all, and you should not use them if your business is not one that can profit from it. But comparing them to you offering deals on your website or even ads that pop up when someone buys a Pizza, is showing no understanding of how their marketing works. None of these methods compare. People who get Groupons emails/app messages/etc are WAITING to get the next list of deals and many are specifically looking for new unusual experiences (more so: Groupon heavily researches and segments their list, so they know exactly what people are most likely to be interested in what kind of deals) How often have you clicked on an ad next to the pizza site you went to? Me: never.
The only thing that can compare somewhat is to build your own list, with lots of research and segmentation, tracking exactly what the people on your list like, staying in touch with regular emails, offering unique deals that are specific to what your customers want. And that's a lot of work and your list will only have people on it that are either customers already or that you incentivised in some other way to sign up. Maybe a few thousand as opposed to Groupon's millions. And it's lots of work.

Honestly, while Groupon works for my own business, I think it would take a lot of strategizing to work for a DZ. It probably isn't worth it--although the idea of offering only low exit points on Groupon and then upgrading most customers might be what makes it work.

Also: Once you offer Groupons it's hard to get rid of them. They have such good SEO that customers may see their ads even if they search for your DZ specifically and then, if you do not offer the Groupon anymore but someone else in the area does, they can siphon off customers who would have otherwise come to you directly.

[yoink 321]

mbohu

2. Set it up so that you always have an up-sell for each Groupon customer that a large percentage will take (experiment & track what works best). This could be video or, like at a DZ I recently visited: Their Groupon offer was a jump from 8000ft and they offered jumps from 12k, 15k and 18k. Once the customer was at the DZ they explained why you'd have a much better experience with the higher exit points and many upgraded.

This is a shitty practice in my opinion. You KNOW that a typical tandem anywhere in the country if from 10k - 12k, and that you're offering a sub-standard service. This is the kind of thing I'd expect from Skyride.

[mbohu 77]

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You KNOW that a typical tandem anywhere in the country if from 10k - 12k

Well, like I said, I'm not a dropzone owner. So, I searched around a little and there seem to be quite a few dropzones that DO offer Tandems from lower altitudes.

I don't think there is anything wrong with offering different levels of services at different prices. That is in no way a deceptive practice in itself.(Skyride seems to be a completely different animal: From what I read here, they are using completely deceptive practices--which would probably be illegal and get them arrested in most countries)
There are different types of consumers with different needs/wants. Bargain hunters might be perfectly fine with a low altitude jump.

...but what I was saying before is: There might also be people who are initially attracted by the bargain but are later--when they learn more about it--quite willing and happy to upgrade.
I do it myself often when I rent a car or book a flight (OK--admittedly airlines are starting to overdo this, charging for everything extra...but that's another story)

When you say "You KNOW that..." I think it means most people who hang out at this forum know this, but most first time tandem students don't usually know this, and some percentage of them most likely are fine with the lower altitude and MUCH lower price for their first (or only) skydiving experience.

My intention for my post was to explore in a more realistic way how Groupon can be useful (or not useful) for a business like a DZ. Most of the previous comments were not really looking at this in a realistic way, I think.
(The lower altitude offer is only ONE possible option--as a business, you clearly can't offer the exact same service for about 30% of the price unless you're making it up somewhere else.)

[mr2mk1g 10]

I think a pretty useful metric would be to consider whether the customer, if they fully understood everything about exactly what they'd paid for, would feel aggrieved.

Take a typical twin turbine DZ running mixed loads in a busy schedule up to 12-15k:

Having a single tandem get out at 8k is a massive pain in the arse and actually costs the DZO more than simply sticking them out at the top with everyone else once you've factored in fannying around with an additional jump run etc.

So sure, for their 'up-sold' additional 4-7k in freefall the customer got a longer skydive and so got something for their money and so on the face of it, it seems a pretty fair deal.

But when you consider what's going on in the background you have to wonder why 8k tandems are offered at all - they're a pain in the arse and actually cost the DZO money. Largely (though not exclusively) the answer is that they're a way of squeezing more money out of a customer who doesn't know any better through 'up-selling' because DZO's know that people will pay a little more for a "better" service, when in reality, if the system wasn't being gamed, they'd get the "better" service as standard anyway.

Insofar as it does, that's where the deceptive practice comes in - they'd be getting a 12-15k tandem anyway if it wasn't for the upselling - it doesn't quite cross the threshold IMO... but it certainly approaches it and if the customer really knew what was going on behind the scenes, I'm not so sure they'd be all that happy.

Now that's not to say this is what's going to apply across the board and some places the maths will work out very differently, (esp for example at a 206 DZ etc) but certainly at the DZ's I know of operating such a system, that's pretty much what's going on.

I've even seen tandems decline the hard sell to go to the top and then be given it anyway "just this once because we like you" because actually following through on an 8k tandem would have been a complete ball ache. In fact, put like that it sounds more like an empty threat than an 'upgrade'.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

yoink

***
2. Set it up so that you always have an up-sell for each Groupon customer that a large percentage will take (experiment & track what works best). This could be video or, like at a DZ I recently visited: Their Groupon offer was a jump from 8000ft and they offered jumps from 12k, 15k and 18k. Once the customer was at the DZ they explained why you'd have a much better experience with the higher exit points and many upgraded.

This is a shitty practice in my opinion. You KNOW that a typical tandem anywhere in the country if from 10k - 12k, and that you're offering a sub-standard service. This is the kind of thing I'd expect from Skyride.

As an interesting side-note:

I was talking with a jumper at SDC Summerfest a year or so back.

His DZ offers lower exit tandems for a discount price.

They did exit surveys and found that the freefall time really wasn't important to the customers. The length of the plane ride was (longer than comfortable).

They ran the numbers and figured out that they would save a considerable amount of time and fuel by exiting lower.
All the savings (fuel, wear & tear on plane, ability to turn loads faster) were more than the discounted price. They actually do better financially.

They make it very clear to the customers what is going on. No "sneaky" or anything like that.

Somewhat counterintuitive, but when you think it through, it makes sense.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DougH 270]

Pre tandem commandments, and being a young and dumb tandem instructor, I work worked for a DZO who would sell 6k tandems with the hope of upsells.

Invariably the people who kept the 6k jump were the worst students, who were "scarred to go higher", and body positions that resembled everything but an arch.

I am glad those jumps are long gone!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[mbohu 77]

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Having a single tandem get out at 8k is a massive pain in the arse and actually costs the DZO more than simply sticking them out at the top with everyone else

Yes, that could be, of course. Although it's somewhat surprising, considering that the Otter and King Airs at our DZ let us do Hop'n Pops and will circle over the landing area for a single hop'n pop for twenty bucks. (maybe they just really love us?)

The specific DZ I experienced, which was offering low Tandems, has a Pac 750XL.
They offer 8k, 11k, 15k and 18k jumps and on a single run may do as many as 3 exit altitudes. (Fun jumpers get to go out with the highest Tandem) I would say, if anything, the 18k one is the one that must cost them a premium, considering the extra time it takes for those last 2k-3k of climb.

Quote

They did exit surveys and found that the freefall time really wasn't important to the customers. The length of the plane ride was (longer than comfortable).

Yes, the tandem students I met were quite happy, no matter what altitude they chose and it felt like everything was very open and honest.

Searching around a bit, it looks like many DZs offer different altitudes for Tandems and many (including Oceanside CA, which I believe is pretty big) offer low ones (between 7.5k-9k), so there must be some advantage to it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi Joe,

Quote

the freefall time really wasn't important to the customers.

While it has been quite a few years ago, Mike Truffer did an editorial in his SKYDIVING magazine advocating just hop 'n' pops for tandems. His argument was that they ( the customer ) got what they wanted ( a certificate & a t-shirt ) and the dz made more money.

Jerry Baumchen

[sudo242 0]

Groupon (GRPN) has one of the highest short percent of float positions in the NASDAQ. It went public in ~2011 at about $26, has gone essentially straight down for 6 years. All the while the overall market has been on fire. That's all you need to know right there.

[jclalor 12]

yoink

***
2. Set it up so that you always have an up-sell for each Groupon customer that a large percentage will take (experiment & track what works best). This could be video or, like at a DZ I recently visited: Their Groupon offer was a jump from 8000ft and they offered jumps from 12k, 15k and 18k. Once the customer was at the DZ they explained why you'd have a much better experience with the higher exit points and many upgraded.

This is a shitty practice in my opinion. You KNOW that a typical tandem anywhere in the country if from 10k - 12k, and that you're offering a sub-standard service. This is the kind of thing I'd expect from Skyride.

I’ve seen a certain DZ tell Groupon holders that their plane does not go to 8000 ft and they would have to upgrade to 15,000 ft for an extra $100 (Whch in reality was 10,000, can’t count the times I heard TI’s explain to thier student that altimeters stop working at 9,000 ft) I thought their conduct bordered on criminal.

[mbohu 77]

Quote

I’ve seen a certain DZ tell Groupon holders that their plane does not go to 8000 ft and they would have to upgrade to 15,000 ft for an extra $100 (Which in reality was 10,000, can’t count the times I heard TI’s explain to their student that altimeters stop working at 9,000 ft) I thought their conduct bordered on criminal.

That certainly would be. (If their plane does not go to 8k, then how can they sell a tandem jump from 8k???!!!) Again, the DZ I visited seemed to be very upfront about it and the altitudes were accurate except that the 18k run did not always make it quite up there--still: 16.5k plus. And since, personally I had previously only jumped at DZs where we land above 5.5k AMSL, and this one was close to sea level, it felt like an eternity in freefall. (Oh: And the landings were oh so soft!)

All I'm saying is: Groupon can be useful if you use it the right way--and if there is no right way to use it because the business has too small a margin, then you shouldn't use it. But comparing Groupon to a company website (even with the best SEO and most awesome discounts) just does not make any sense. It's not going to give you the same at all.