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skydiverek

Does Sabre2 open hard more often that other modern canopies?

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skydiverek

Does Sabre2 open hard more often that other modern canopies? Comparing to let's say Pilot, Spectre, Safire2?

I know Sabre2 usually opens soft, but does it have an inherited every-so-often hard opening?



They've never slammed me. I've a decent # of jumps on 150, 135, and 120. Certainly opens faster than Pilot, or Saffire 2, at least in my experience. I prefer a quicker opening so I don't really do much to slow it down.

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skydiverek

Does Sabre2 open hard more often that other modern canopies? Comparing to let's say Pilot, Spectre, Safire2?

I know Sabre2 usually opens soft, but does it have an inherited every-so-often hard opening?



People who have chronic hard openings on Sabre II's either have a rare bastard canopy or aren't packing properly.

With that in mind, remember that any canopy can open hard enough to kill you on any jump, even when perfectly packed.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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TheBachelor



Now my Sabre1 was another story...

+ 1 after so many hard openings on my old 190. until I got smart and put thr pocket slider on it;) I have chronic neck pain
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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I've only ever flown the rental one at the DZ. I have a number of early jumps logged on that canopy with "Hard opening" "Hard opening" and one that was so hard I saw stars briefly. Then one of the riggers dicked with the line trim to try to fix an end cell closure problem the more lightly loading students were complaining about, and I never had another hard opening on it.

Why would I keep jumping it if I kept having hard openings on it? Well I didn't notice the pattern at first, and by the time I did I enjoyed flying it more than I hated the openings. Once the rigger did his thing, it became my favorite rental rig in the place.
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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chuckakers

***Does Sabre2 open hard more often that other modern canopies? Comparing to let's say Pilot, Spectre, Safire2?

I know Sabre2 usually opens soft, but does it have an inherited every-so-often hard opening?



People who have chronic hard openings on Sabre II's either have a rare bastard canopy or aren't packing properly.

With that in mind, remember that any canopy can open hard enough to kill you on any jump, even when perfectly packed.

My S2 was initially fine. I could pack it however I'd want to and it didn't really matter if I pulled from full track or whatever. It opened just fine. Then after it had about 1100 jumps on it I had to change the lineset. Absolutely horrible slammers on almost every jump no matter what. Now I just roll all the other cells except the middle one and it opens really nice again. Although the snivel is insane now.
Your rights end where my feelings begin.

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Sa2 are pretty sensible to trim changes in IMO.
I noticed a difference in opening characteristics with lines only about 2-3 cm out of trim.
Made about 200 Jumps on a Sa2 150 @ 1.4, never had a single hard opening. Testjumped a 120 last year, not bad at all.
But onheading openings were a rare occasion the last 100 times on it IIRC.
-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

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Pobrause

Sa2 are pretty sensible to trim changes in IMO.
I noticed a difference in opening characteristics with lines only about 2-3 cm out of trim.
Made about 200 Jumps on a Sa2 150 @ 1.4, never had a single hard opening. Testjumped a 120 last year, not bad at all.
But onheading openings were a rare occasion the last 100 times on it IIRC.



Yeah, I heard some of the people loading the sabre2 at the DZ more lightly had trouble with end-cell closure and otherwise funky openin. I never had a severely off-heading opening on it. The PD pulse I'm jumping now opens off heading pretty much every time, and everyone I've talked to says ones they jumped always opened on heading. That might just come down to the personality of the individual canopy.

Having watched a friend jump two different Sabre1s, it seems like really hard openings can be dealt with. He talked to a rigger and they ended up putting a pocket in his slider, which at least seemed to keep him from getting bruises on every jump. Funnily it took some convincing for him to realize that wasn't normal. He won't jump anything else after having flown it, though. I keep joking with him that he's going to have to contact PD for his next downsize, and convince them to make him a new Sabre 1.
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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I love my Sabre2 and haven't had any issue with hard openings. I'm also not an elegant packer and it's pretty forgiving of that fact! I started on a Sabre1 and had some really nasty openings, one of which caused blackout and stars with bruising that took weeks to heal. From my own personal (low jump number) experience, the Sabre2 hasn't been prone to hard openings at all, even with a crappy packer (me!) bagging her up.

End cell closure is another story. My opening sequence goes: Pull, visual check of my airspace, grab rear risers and PUMP PUMP PUMP to get slider down and end cells open, then move on with the canopy flight. Every. Single. Time.

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NickyCal


End cell closure is another story. My opening sequence goes: Pull, visual check of my airspace, grab rear risers and PUMP PUMP PUMP to get slider down and end cells open, then move on with the canopy flight. Every. Single. Time.



^ This, for sure. I never had a hard opening on a Sabre2, though there was always an annoyance to clear once opened. Great canopy, though; fun to fly and awesome flare.

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Quote

If it's perfectly packed, it won't kill you. If it does kill you, it's not perfect.



No. A parachute opening is a random and chaotic event. A parachute that is 'perfectly packed' (a definition upon which you would likely not have a unanimous consensus) can still open into a fatal slammer.

It has been stated several times in these forums: "You can do everything right and still die."
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

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After an injury I started jumping a lightly loaded Sabre2. I experienced the same end cell closure issue. At first I would do what you did, and pumped the brakes and really focused on getting those end cells open. Eventually, I realized that they would open on their own during a routine canopy check (full flare, turn right, turn left). You are doing a canopy check, right? I never found having an end cell closed affected my flight significantly enough to really matter.

- Dan G

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Bealio

***With that in mind, remember that any canopy can open hard enough to kill you on any jump, even when perfectly packed.



If it's perfectly packed, it won't kill you. If it does kill you, it's not perfect.

Tell that to Mike Truffer (RIP). Parachutes can and do occasionally behave bizarrely despite being in perfect condition and packed flawlessly.

You may have just been doing a bit of word play with your reply, but it's important for us to not send the younger jumpers incorrect messages, even if by accident. Yes, ANY parachute can open in such a way that it injures or even kills EVEN when properly packed.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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They get a bad rap because some sabre1's used to smack people. S2 is a normal modern canopy and can't be blamed for poor packing, body position, or maintenance. I've packed thousands of them with the normal smattering of harder openings but nothing more than other makes.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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i jump a sabre 1 and never had a hard opening....except in a track once,,,,,i was scared to jump it for the first time coz of all the shit people talked about sabre1,,,,,i can pack it anyway like shit and never slams me,,,,,,they open faster than most canopies that's all but not hard..
FTMC

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My Sabre 2 was fine when I first got it, then began opening hard. I almost always had end cell closure. It got so bad that I had it inspected and repaired by PD. I finally sold it and got a Fusion. No hard openings. Same packer (me). Same body position.
POPS #10623; SOS #1672

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brucet7

My Sabre 2 was fine when I first got it, then began opening hard. I almost always had end cell closure. It got so bad that I had it inspected and repaired by PD. I finally sold it and got a Fusion. No hard openings. Same packer (me). Same body position.



so it was so bad but u sold it to someone else?...cant have been that bad if u thought it was ok to sell to anyone?
FTMC

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skez

***My Sabre 2 was fine when I first got it, then began opening hard. I almost always had end cell closure. It got so bad that I had it inspected and repaired by PD. I finally sold it and got a Fusion. No hard openings. Same packer (me). Same body position.



so it was so bad but u sold it to someone else?...cant have been that bad if u thought it was ok to sell to anyone?

A friend of mine bought a canopy that turned out to be a spanker. Seller basically told him "too bad, sale is complete".
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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chuckakers

******With that in mind, remember that any canopy can open hard enough to kill you on any jump, even when perfectly packed.



If it's perfectly packed, it won't kill you. If it does kill you, it's not perfect.




Tell that to Mike Truffer (RIP). Parachutes can and do occasionally behave bizarrely despite being in perfect condition and packed flawlessly.

You may have just been doing a bit of word play with your reply, but it's important for us to not send the younger jumpers incorrect messages, even if by accident. Yes, ANY parachute can open in such a way that it injures or even kills EVEN when properly packed.



I have to agree with Bealio;
'' ... if I does kill you, it's not perfect...'' ,
however, I understand what you are trying to say...
I would rather use the term a ''good canopy'' could and will play tricks on you, here and there.
As for your example concerning the fatal accident of Mike Truffer ( a great guy, RIP ) this may not be the best illustration !
In the Incidents Forum it is well explained why he had a very hard opening ; so hard, he never released his brakes.
The Stilleto 107 may not have been packed ''flawlessly '' !
As for the young generation of skydivers, I agree we should
alert them...nevertheless, I doubt they will listen !

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