Rookie question about strange opening I experienced today.

[Danh124 0]

Hi guys, I thought I would throw this one out to the experts.
I am a B licensed jumper with 80 jumps, jumping a talon fs with a Safire 180.
Today on the third jump of the day we were attempting a 4 way with some other jumpers of about my experience level and it wasn't happening. I was floating above them and couldn't get down so at about 5500 ft I thought bugger this I'm gonna get out of the camera mans way and I tracked out of there, a big long hard track as I had a bit more hight to spare so I thought further is better and really turned on the heat.
I was conscious of flaring out of my track but that doesn't mean I did a good job of it, it felt like I slowed down a lot but I can't be sure.
Any way checked alti waved off looked and dumped, immediately after releasing the pilot chute I thought "this feels strange" like the bag was rocking side to side as it was coming of my back. I watched the bag spin once or twice and thought ok no big deal a couple of twists I'll just kick out of them.
This wasn't as easy as I thought and I did start spinning on my back for a while, I kicked and kicked and then shit myself as I realised I hadn't checked my alti. Had a look and I was at 2800 so I thought if I'm not out of this before 2k I'm chopping.
Any way long story short I kicked out of the twists and calmed down a bit, realised I was being a sook and landed safely.
The most experienced jumper on the load, who has been helping me with my free fall and specifically my tracking was watching me during the break off and deployment said he thought the deployment looked strange and he thought I was gonna chop as I had end cell closures and was starting to spin up.
So any way now I am worrying about this whole thing. Why did it happen? Body position or packing, or both. I am new to this and my packing isn't awsome, it's ok but still learning.
So I'm now thinking line stow problem? Pilot chute worn out?
Or is this simply a case of poor body position and not flaring out of my track.
All theories or advice welcome. Thanks guys.

The sky is not the limit, the ground is!

[wmw999 2,120]

If it's the first time this happened, then it's probably a combination of luck with slightly off body position and/or packing. But a large component of luck; I had a slammer the other day which was definitely not packed any differently (I pack for myself). If you always focus on good body position and keep working on packing, I wouldn't sweat it. Some of the bouncing might have been in the burble, possibly from the pilot chute not having been flung quite as hard as usual.

The opening sequence of a parachute is extremely chaotic; that's why you want to control things with a bag and good line stows etc. but shit definitely happens; it happens less often to people who understand their gear and the dynamics of opening.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pchapman 261]

Danh124

after releasing the pilot chute I thought "this feels strange" like the bag was rocking side to side as it was coming of my back. I watched the bag spin once or twice

Pilot chute cocked ok?
Did you feel a delay after tossing, as if the pilot chute got in the burble and nothing was lifting off your back? (So the liftoff could have been slow when it did happen)
Stows are another possible issue.

Hard to tell from just a few words about what you only felt or maybe saw out of the corner of your eye if twisting to look over your shoulder during the deployment.

Does sound like the bag may have come off your back slowly and/or lines releasing slowly, which gives the bag a chance to rock and spin up before the canopy is out of the bag.

[Boomerdog 0]

Great post.
I hope you get a lot of input from the more experienced jumpers and instructors on this matter. I'm more than interested in what they have to say.

[JohnMitchell 14]

wmw999

The opening sequence of a parachute is extremely chaotic; that's why you want to control things with a bag and good line stows etc.

Everything that Wendy said. There have been bad openings and malfunctions where I could point to packing, maintenance, etc. Others were simply "chaos in the universe."

BTW, I pull from a hard track all the time and my openings aren't noticeably harder. However, I track very flat and actually can slow down my rate of descent in a good track. Not many people at your experience level track as well as they could. So practice that and maybe get some coaching.

Glad to hear you checked your altimeter in the middle of your situation. Good to stay aware of your altitude when working a problem.

Checking your altimeter after tracking but before pulling? IMO, that's a wasted move. Break off when it's time to go, track off watching for traffic and the ground below, and pull when you're safely clear. Spend your valuable time getting separation and watching for traffic, not reading the altimeter.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Danh124

I watched the bag spin once or twice and thought ok no big deal a couple of twists I'll just kick out of them................. Thanks guys.

You ask good questions here. If I'm reading this correctly, you said you saw the deployment bag spin? I would ask you what body position allows you to see the D-bag during the opening sequence? Then, is that body position correct?

Or... Think of the ideal body position for a clean opening. Now, if you are in that position, can you see the D-Bag or deploying material?

My first reserve ride (many decades ago) was from a chest mount reserve. I watched that deployment and it's ingrained in my memory. I've not "seen" any deployments since then. I've also not had a reserve ride in 30+ years.

As stated above, chaos is the best way to describe a deploying canopy. But, good body position is the best tool you have to survive the chaos. Learn to "fly your openings", from free fall flight right thru to canopy flight. There's a transition going on, but it's all about flight!

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[sammielu 3]

I recommended planning your emergency procedures to START with an altitude check. And decide where your hard deck is (to stop fighting and go reserve) before you get on a plane again. You've probably heard this before but it didn't come through in your explanation of your opening... and thinking about and planning for and visualizing good emergency procedures is always a good idea.

That said, good info from the other responses. Good job handling common canopy problems that hit you in a combination. Body position at pull time is important for all of us!

[Danh124 0]

skyjumpenfool

***
I watched the bag spin once or twice and thought ok no big deal a couple of twists I'll just kick out of them................. Thanks guys.

You ask good questions here. If I'm reading this correctly, you said you saw the deployment bag spin? I would ask you what body position allows you to see the D-bag during the opening sequence? Then, is that body position correct?

Or... Think of the ideal body position for a clean opening. Now, if you are in that position, can you see the D-Bag or deploying material?

My first reserve ride (many decades ago) was from a chest mount reserve. I watched that deployment and it's ingrained in my memory. I've not "seen" any deployments since then. I've also not had a reserve ride in 30+ years.

As stated above, chaos is the best way to describe a deploying canopy. But, good body position is the best tool you have to survive the chaos. Learn to "fly your openings", from free fall flight right thru to canopy flight. There's a transition going on, but it's all about flight!

I always turn my head slightly after I feel bag lift and watch (catch a glimpse) the deployment over my shoulder. I don't feel this disturb my position at all but I am far from an expert, should I not be doing this?

The sky is not the limit, the ground is!

[riggerrob 558]

Hint: continue arching until you have a canopy overhead ... descending slowly.

[Quagmirian 40]

Danh124

...I always turn my head slightly after I feel bag lift and watch (catch a glimpse) the deployment over my shoulder. I don't feel this disturb my position at all but I am far from an expert, should I not be doing this?

It's exactly the sort of thing than could cause a spinning bag and funky openings.

[Danh124 0]

Thanks guys, I will work on my body position, and packing. Might even get a video done.

The sky is not the limit, the ground is!

[andym148 2]

Hey,

I agree with the above to check your anti after a track and pre deployment. You can do it as your waving off and as your left hand is out in for as you go for your PC, if your down and dirty then think about other avenues.

You mentioned you were conscious of flaring out of your track prior to deploying, how did you do this? Was it a hard flare (arms out straight and feet up bum in a back slide position)? Or a more gentle flare? If you hard flared out of the track and then went straight to the deployment phase without going back to neutral, this COULD be a factor? Ive seen footage of someone dumping in a back slide, and the opening was funky to say the least!

Blues.

At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

[airdvr 197]

I wonder if it had anything to do with forward speed. If you tracked long and hard you probably still were carrying a good deal of forward momentum, which made it feel strange.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[JohnMitchell 14]

skyjumpenfool

My first reserve ride (many decades ago) was from a chest mount reserve. I watched that deployment and it's ingrained in my memory.

Same here. Freaky weird. I remember seeing the inflated canopy and the lines almost tight, then seeing stars in the middle of the day.

[erdnarob 1]

Arching or de arching to slow down ??
It seems to me that the best position at deployment is to resume the box position after P/C launch and looking at horizon while staying calm and symetrical. This is what is recommended for Katana or any elliptical canopy. If it works for such canopies it should also work for any other canopy. Looking up side way at opening sequence may generate an asymetrical position, rotation of the body and...line twists.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[sammielu 3]

I learned the body position NOT to use on my first coaching jumps, where I was watching my students over my shoulder, all the way into line twists for me! Eyes on the horizon through opening, even if the opening turns your body off heading, and your body will turn you back on heading.

[Rstanley0312 0]

JohnMitchell

***
The opening sequence of a parachute is extremely chaotic; that's why you want to control things with a bag and good line stows etc.

Everything that Wendy said. There have been bad openings and malfunctions where I could point to packing, maintenance, etc. Others were simply "chaos in the universe."



BTW, I pull from a hard track all the time and my openings aren't noticeably harder. However, I track very flat and actually can slow down my rate of descent in a good track. Not many people at your experience level track as well as they could. So practice that and maybe get some coaching.

Glad to hear you checked your altimeter in the middle of your situation. Good to stay aware of your altitude when working a problem.


THIS

Checking your altimeter after tracking but before pulling? IMO, that's a wasted move. Break off when it's time to go, track off watching for traffic and the ground below, and pull when you're safely clear. Spend your valuable time getting separation and watching for traffic, not reading the altimeter.
I see this a lot in videos. It is a waste of time and you are looking at your altimeter when you could be checking your airspace pre deployment. One thing I have learned is that you should never stop checking your air space.. that includes before, during, and through deployment. How does this apply to the question you are asking? I have watched students and low timers focus on their altimeter so much before they dump that they start turning. May not be why (see several great posts above) but I have seen it and Johns comment was so right on I wanted to reaffirm it.

*I do not have that many jumps but I wanted to share what I have learned*

edited to add: staring at your canopy through deployment is also a habit to break if you do that. I see many that do.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[jumpsalot-2 2]

Quote

staring at your canopy through deployment is also a habit to break if you do that. I see many that do.

Wait until you have a hard opening while your head is tilted back ( watching your canopy open ). Hard openings will happen ...... watching your canopy open is a bad habit in my humble opinion.

Life is short ... jump often.

[JohnMitchell 14]

jumpsalot-2

Quote

staring at your canopy through deployment is also a habit to break if you do that. I see many that do.

Wait until you have a hard opening while your head is tilted back ( watching your canopy open ). Hard openings will happen ...... watching your canopy open is a bad habit in my humble opinion.

yep, keep that neck straight.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

JohnMitchell

***
My first reserve ride (many decades ago) was from a chest mount reserve. I watched that deployment and it's ingrained in my memory.

Same here. Freaky weird. I remember seeing the inflated canopy and the lines almost tight, then seeing stars in the middle of the day.

= : o P

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."