eatfastnoodle 2 #1 November 14, 2014 looks like the growth rate of licensed jumpers seemed to accelerate quite a bit lately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,377 #2 November 14, 2014 You didn't used to have to get your A and B licenses in order to get the C and/or D. C was required for jumpmaster or to go to Nationals in the day, so it was the most common license. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimjumper 25 #3 November 14, 2014 For a long time you didn't need a license at all. I had 5 years and 400 jumps before we had a weather day and I took all 4 license exams at once. Just happened to walk in and see people studying. I asked the ASO what it took to get a "D" and I already had everything. Took of the tests cold and passed all 4. Sent USPA $80 and done! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #4 November 14, 2014 Lew Sanborn is A-1 and D-1. I don't have a date, but I believe it would have been the mid to late 50s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelmullins 81 #5 November 14, 2014 wmw999You didn't used to have to get your A and B licenses in order to get the C and/or D. C was required for jumpmaster or to go to Nationals in the day, so it was the most common license. Wendy P. Just to clarify, you still do not need to "get" a lower license to receive a higher license. That is, you do not need to "get" an A License to receive a B License, etc. However, you need to meet all the qualifications of the lower license to receive the higher license. You do not need to be issued, or pay for, the lower license if you do not wish to receive the lower license. Mike Mullins USPA National Director Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #6 November 14, 2014 wmw999You didn't used to have to get your A and B licenses in order to get the C and/or D. C was required for jumpmaster or to go to Nationals in the day, so it was the most common license. Wendy P. I suppose technically you still don't, though with the new 60-day deadline to turn in the A card to the USPA, it's effectively ensuring that most everyone does get an A number. But I'd venture to guess that skipping B or C is still relatively common (I skipped B because by the time the timing worked out for water training I was already at about 150 jumps and I figured I'd just wait till I met the C requirements)."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wasatchrider 0 #7 November 14, 2014 wmw999You didn't used to have to get your A and B licenses in order to get the C and/or D. C was required for jumpmaster or to go to Nationals in the day, so it was the most common license. Wendy P. dont think you do still I got my C about a year ago and do not have an A or BBASE 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #8 November 17, 2014 When I started skydiving, it wasn't "cool" to have an "A" license; and even kinda an embarrassment to even to let anyone know you had one. Just about everyone skipped that one. All it took was 10 jumps. That's it. Nothing else. It just wasn't cool back then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TangBu 1 #9 November 19, 2014 michaelmullins Just to clarify, you still do not need to "get" a lower license to receive a higher license. That is, you do not need to "get" an A License to receive a B License, etc. However, you need to meet all the qualifications of the lower license to receive the higher license. You do not need to be issued, or pay for, the lower license if you do not wish to receive the lower license. Mike Mullins USPA National Director Maybe in the US, but at least in Canada you have to get them in order. I'd been jumping with a BPA C for some years before I decided to get my Canadian B. CSPA sent it back, so I'm the only person I know who wrote the B before the A before the Solo....Blair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #10 November 19, 2014 That's probably typical for more people to skip the B license. If you're jumping at your own DZ most of the time nobody cares and there are few restrictions released going to B. I finally got my C when I had to have it for Nationals. I was kind of peeved because I wanted to see how long I could jump with only an A license."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #11 November 19, 2014 DJLThat's probably typical for more people to skip the B license. If you're jumping at your own DZ most of the time nobody cares and there are few restrictions released going to B. I finally got my C when I had to have it for Nationals. I was kind of peeved because I wanted to see how long I could jump with only an A license. Yeah, other than night jumps, the B doesn't get you much (although you'll sometimes see dropzone- or event-specific restrictions like requiring a B for a specialty aircraft or to land in certain landing areas). Personally, I felt nowhere near ready to do a night jump in that time frame, so not having it was no big thing (even though I was traveling quite a bit at the time)."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelmullins 81 #12 November 19, 2014 TangBu*** Just to clarify, you still do not need to "get" a lower license to receive a higher license. That is, you do not need to "get" an A License to receive a B License, etc. However, you need to meet all the qualifications of the lower license to receive the higher license. You do not need to be issued, or pay for, the lower license if you do not wish to receive the lower license. Mike Mullins USPA National Director Maybe in the US, but at least in Canada you have to get them in order. I'd been jumping with a BPA C for some years before I decided to get my Canadian B. CSPA sent it back, so I'm the only person I know who wrote the B before the A before the Solo. I have no idea what the requirements are in Canada, I am only talking about USPA Licenses. USPA Licenses also have to be earned in order but you do not need to pay or be "issued" a lower license to receive a higher license, you need only meet the requirements of the lower license. Mike Mullins Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #13 November 19, 2014 michaelmullinsUSPA Licenses also have to be earned in order but you do not need to pay or be "issued" a lower license to receive a higher license, you need only meet the requirements of the lower license. Mike Mullins I could swear I read somewhere that you did have to get the licence issued and pay for each one, but I guess that wasn't correct. You seem to be a trustworthy authority on this. It does answer a question I posed on the dropzone last weekend, about why C licence numbers are higher than B licence numbers in Parachutist. I had to get my B to do our annual night jumps, but I guess a lot of people just skip it. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #14 November 19, 2014 JeffCa***USPA Licenses also have to be earned in order but you do not need to pay or be "issued" a lower license to receive a higher license, you need only meet the requirements of the lower license. Mike Mullins I could swear I read somewhere that you did have to get the licence issued and pay for each one, but I guess that wasn't correct. You seem to be a trustworthy authority on this. It does answer a question I posed on the dropzone last weekend, about why C licence numbers are higher than B licence numbers in Parachutist. I had to get my B to do our annual night jumps, but I guess a lot of people just skip it. Dude... Mike Mullins is a national director for USPA."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #15 November 19, 2014 BillyVance Dude... Mike Mullins is a national director for USPA. Yes, I read that. It's why I made my comment about him being trustworthy. I guess you didn't get the intentional understatement. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #16 November 20, 2014 dpreguy When I started skydiving, it wasn't "cool" to have an "A" license; and even kinda an embarrassment to even to let anyone know you had one. Just about everyone skipped that one. My DZ too. It was non-USPA and didn't require any license. They never even mentioned getting the A or B. I got my C to start jump mastering all the time and doing demos. These days some DZs charge "novice" rates for unlicensed jumpers, so there is a real $$ incentive to get the A license. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
primetime 18 #17 November 20, 2014 indyzLew Sanborn is A-1 and D-1. Jacques Istel is A-1 and D-2. Lew Sanborn is D-1 and A-2. They flipped a coin for it. If I recall my skydiving history, at the time they thought that the "A" license would be the more important of the two. Who in the hell had the guts to jump out of an airplane enough times to earn a "Master" license? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #18 November 20, 2014 JeffCa*** Dude... Mike Mullins is a national director for USPA. Yes, I read that. It's why I made my comment about him being trustworthy. I guess you didn't get the intentional understatement. Gotcha. Mike is a friend of mine. I know the guy well enough to trust him with my life in his plane. I have more jumps out of his King Air than any other single aircraft."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1888 0 #19 December 11, 2014 I started in 61 & I never knew anyone who got an A. It was a waste of money better spent on beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wstcstcmtr 0 #20 December 11, 2014 michaelmullins ***You didn't used to have to get your A and B licenses in order to get the C and/or D. C was required for jumpmaster or to go to Nationals in the day, so it was the most common license. Wendy P. Just to clarify, you still do not need to "get" a lower license to receive a higher license. That is, you do not need to "get" an A License to receive a B License, etc. However, you need to meet all the qualifications of the lower license to receive the higher license. You do not need to be issued, or pay for, the lower license if you do not wish to receive the lower license. Mike Mullins USPA National Director I know I shouldn't even be trying to correct a National Director, but.... Quote SIM 3-1 E (2) 2. Persons holding a USPA B license are able to exercise all privileges of an A-license holder, perform night jumps, with 100 jumps are eligible for the USPA Coach Rating, and must have- a. obtained a USPA A license Quote SIM 3-1 E (3) a. met all current requirements for or hold a USPA B license To me it's pretty clear you must have an A license to get a B... and in turn, to get a C, meet the requirements for B, which is to have obtained an A license. Opposed to "meeting the requirements for the A license." Respectfully, WstCstCmtr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #21 December 11, 2014 Silly rabbit, The requirement you listed of having to submit the A form and fee before anything else is decades newer than what is being discussed. For most of the history of USPA you only had to pay for the license numbers you wanted. You had to meet the requirements but didn't have to get it. Until USPA decided they wanted more money. Slap my face, did I say that out loud? You'll soon learn that the SIM, a relatively new publication in itself, is a moving target. I gave up long ago trying to keep track of all the changes, and don't much care since I'm not throwing students any more. Stick with your gut instincts, listen and learn. And yes it seems like you actually might be right. But don't you know better than to correct your elders.It was more fun before the internet and newbies did this in person where you could slap them upside of the head. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,495 #22 December 11, 2014 wstcstcmtr To me it's pretty clear you must have an A license to get a B... and in turn, to get a C, meet the requirements for B, which is to have obtained an A license. Opposed to "meeting the requirements for the A license." Respectfully, WstCstCmtr Well, it used to be that a signed & stamped progression card was a valid A license. You didn't need to send it (and the money) in and get an "official" license with a number and all that. So it was entirely possible (not to common though) to have your "first" license be a D. Get the A card, never process it, meet the requirements, get the D."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelmullins 81 #23 December 11, 2014 wstcstcmtr ******You didn't used to have to get your A and B licenses in order to get the C and/or D. C was required for jumpmaster or to go to Nationals in the day, so it was the most common license. Wendy P. Just to clarify, you still do not need to "get" a lower license to receive a higher license. That is, you do not need to "get" an A License to receive a B License, etc. However, you need to meet all the qualifications of the lower license to receive the higher license. You do not need to be issued, or pay for, the lower license if you do not wish to receive the lower license. Mike Mullins USPA National Director I know I shouldn't even be trying to correct a National Director, but.... Quote SIM 3-1 E (2) 2. Persons holding a USPA B license are able to exercise all privileges of an A-license holder, perform night jumps, with 100 jumps are eligible for the USPA Coach Rating, and must have- a. obtained a USPA A license Quote SIM 3-1 E (3) a. met all current requirements for or hold a USPA B license To me it's pretty clear you must have an A license to get a B... and in turn, to get a C, meet the requirements for B, which is to have obtained an A license. Opposed to "meeting the requirements for the A license." Respectfully, WstCstCmtrWhat I have stated is correct, you need not actually receive an "A" License, only meet the requirements for same, to receive a higher license. The language that you have quoted from the SIM is technically correct but does not conform to the language in the rest of the section. The language which is used for the other licenses, is: met all current requirements for or hold……. The reason the language is "technically" correct is that if you are being signed off for a higher license without choosing to be issued an "A" License you are also being signed off that you have met the requirements for the "A" License and in that sense you have "obtained" the license but have chosen not to pay for and be "issued" the license. Another way to look at it: To receive a higher license, your "A" License Proficiency Card or your "A" License Progression Card must be completed. At the time of completion you are an "A" License holder, you have "obtained" the license. Then, within 60 days, you must send the card, along with the fee, to USPA to be "issued" an "A" License with a number. Until recently, you did not actually need to send the card in and be issued the license, the card was your license. At the next USPA BOD meeting I will propose to change the language of the section you quoted to make it uniform with the other language. I have a "C" and "D" license but I have never received an "A" License. There are many that have been issued higher licenses without an "A" License. I just signed off a "D" License for an individual who has been issued no lower licenses and there are many that have had the same. It has been done this way for over 50 years. Again, I am stating that it is an absolute fact that you do not need to be actually issued, or pay for an "A" License to receive a higher license, you need only meet the qualifications. Or, you can look at it in the light that once you have met the qualifications you have "obtained" the license but not have been "issued" the license. The reason it is done this way is to save the USPA member money. If he meets the qualifications for a higher license and does not wish to pay the $30 fee to be issued the lower license, he can save $30 for each of the lower licenses he does not choose to be issued. Michael Mullins USPA National Director Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wstcstcmtr 0 #24 December 12, 2014 Thanks for the reply! Oh well, the USPA got an extra $30 out of me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wstcstcmtr 0 #25 December 12, 2014 No, I think we are now talking about the present but, I never really know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
