Opinions on camera course for beginners

[divertech 0]

Hi just curious as to how the more experienced guys will run a camera course for people that want to start wearing there Go -pro's, something similar to a canopy controlle course. There has been a lot said about the 200 jump mark as a starting point so lets say you can only go on this course after 200 jumps.
We will obviously need to start on ground school and then have a structured approach from there on. How do you guys see this happening?

[wmw999 2,121]

The camera forum might get more educated responses. But in trying to start stuff, I've often found it best to put my best effort into something, throw it out there, and develop a really thick skin. Because if it goes anywhere, the end result won't look anything like what you originally proposed.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[divertech 0]

In hindsight I should have posted it in the camera section, I'm just curious to see what people think would be the best way to progress with camera and not have useless video's. Maybe a program of about a 100 jumps where your progression is monitored and improvements made while you focus on different skills or something similar to AFF where an instructor jumps with you on tasks. On almost all other skydiving disciplines there is a set course you have to complete to prove your skills before receiving a license, would something like that not work for video's?

[wasatchrider 0]

like you can put a gopro housing on after 100 jumps with no camera in it so you dont have to worry about getting the shot only the snag hazzard.

BASE 1519

[Krip 2]

divertech

In hindsight I should have posted it in the camera section, I'm just curious to see what people think would be the best way to progress with camera and not have useless video's. Maybe a program of about a 100 jumps where your progression is monitored and improvements made while you focus on different skills or something similar to AFF where an instructor jumps with you on tasks. On almost all other skydiving disciplines there is a set course you have to complete to prove your skills before receiving a license, would something like that not work for video's?

It's complicated. What's the rush. Want free jumps as a videoit.?

I'M not coming back. One yes one no.

R.I.P.

[Remster 24]

Classes are fine. Even better: find a mentor.

Remster

[yoink 321]

Remster

Classes are fine. Even better: find a mentor.

I'm not the biggest fan of 'mentors'. They're the informal version of instructors, and as such the quality you can get seems to vary wildly. Even the content of what would be taught would vary a lot I think.

I'd much rather see a syllabus put together that camera coaches can teach from. Something that standardizes the requirements across all dropzones.

[dthames 0]

divertech

Hi just curious as to how the more experienced guys will run a camera course for people that want to start wearing there Go -pro's, something similar to a canopy controlle course. There has been a lot said about the 200 jump mark as a starting point so lets say you can only go on this course after 200 jumps.
We will obviously need to start on ground school and then have a structured approach from there on. How do you guys see this happening?

Would this "course" expect the student to be a video proficient person on the ground before taking to the air with a camera?

The first step is that a person can shoot good video on the ground and know what they are doing.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[pchapman 261]

dthames

The first step is that a person can shoot good video on the ground and know what they are doing.

Good video is when the red light is blinking.

I think the idea here is about camera safety for the GoPro crowd, not whether one can set up an artistic scene or debate SLR shutter speeds.

[yoink 321]

pchapman

***The first step is that a person can shoot good video on the ground and know what they are doing.

Good video is when the red light is blinking.

I think the idea here is about camera safety for the GoPro crowd, not whether one can set up an artistic scene or debate SLR shutter speeds.


Why have the difference between safety and good practice?

If an understanding of lighting / shutter speeds is needed for shooting a tandem, then make that part of the course that you teach to everyone who wants to fly with a camera. If it isn't needed at all, don't teach it.

I could see having 2 tiers of qualification though - one for video, and one for stills.

[pchapman 261]

Certainly one could get into courses for different types of camera flying, or for the particular type of equipment used at a particular DZ. The OP was probably just thinking of the very first course one would take, perhaps a mandatory safety course rather than optional advanced techniques.

Someone like DSE could probably set up a dozen different courses without a lot of overlap, on basic camera safety, videoing 4 way, basic tandem video techniques and equipment, stills techniques and equipment, advanced techniques, and on and on ...

[yoink 321]

Lets rope him into writing it...

[Krip 2]

pchapman

Certainly one could get into courses for different types of camera flying, or for the particular type of equipment used at a particular DZ. The OP was probably just thinking of the very first course one would take, perhaps a mandatory safety course rather than optional advanced techniques.

Someone like DSE could probably set up a dozen different courses without a lot of overlap, on basic camera safety, videoing 4 way, basic tandem video techniques and equipment, stills techniques and equipment, advanced techniques, and on and on ...

Is DSE still around?

One Jump Wonder

[pchapman 261]

Krip

Is DSE still around?

Depends on where 'around' is.

He's up in my area, Toronto, Canada, along with a big pile of wingsuits, maybe for a couple years, although he still make trips south of the border.

First time I saw him at a local DZ, Skydive Toronto, I walked up to him and said that he looks kind of like DSE. Which DSE probably would....

[divertech 0]

pchapman

Certainly one could get into courses for different types of camera flying, or for the particular type of equipment used at a particular DZ. The OP was probably just thinking of the very first course one would take, perhaps a mandatory safety course rather than optional advanced techniques.

Someone like DSE could probably set up a dozen different courses without a lot of overlap, on basic camera safety, videoing 4 way, basic tandem video techniques and equipment, stills techniques and equipment, advanced techniques, and on and on ...

A basic safety course is what I had in mind (not the 30min camera briefing that is the standard now), I also like the idea of a progression plan if this is possible/feasible. It would be interesting to hear from experienced guys how they would do it and what they would have benefited from had such a structure existed when they were in-experienced. And yes a couple of free jumps with tandems wouldn't hurt in the future.

[Krip 2]

pchapman

***Is DSE still around?

Depends on where 'around' is.

He's up in my area, Toronto, Canada, along with a big pile of wingsuits, maybe for a couple years, although he still make trips south of the border.

First time I saw him at a local DZ, Skydive Toronto, I walked up to him and said that he looks kind of like DSE. Which DSE probably would....

So Mr Spot is not on DZ.com even from north of the border?

None of my business.

One Jump Wonder

[chemist 0]

wasatchrider

like you can put a gopro housing on after 100 jumps with no camera in it so you dont have to worry about getting the shot only the snag hazzard.

lmao, don't take this personally but that's a really stupid idea. In many places outside the US it's 100 jumps to have camera anyways

[riggerrob 558]

...

A basic safety course is what I had in mind ... And yes a couple of free jumps with tandems wouldn't hurt in the future.

.................................................................................

Before chasing any tandem, you must convince the TI that you are not going to kill him/her and his/her student.

The best way to prove non-lethality is to show the TI a stack of videos where you chased a bunch of free-fliers around the sky, keeping them in frame, lighting, reasonable break-off procedures, predictable landing patterns, didn't kill anyone, etc.

[FrE3minD 0]

Maybe you're interessted in one, who has just recently received such a course and has quite well observed different trends and methods for beginning with camera.

-- THIS ALL DESCRIBES THE SITUATION IN GERMANY ---


We just recently had some changes in the instructors handbook (mandatory).

The requirements used to be: 100jumps and a short (not further specified) briefing.

NOW it still is 100jumps minimum, BUT at least you have to do 6 Training jumps:

2 with an instructor, (still without camera) to show that you are safety-conscious, current and aware of what you're doing AND thta you're able to fly within distance and within the discipline you want to film.

2 with camera gear (not neccesarily with instructor), camera NOT RUNNING

2- with camera and instructor, to show that you can handle the new gear, set the right priorities, adjust your EPs etc.

Along those jumps there has to be an sincere briefing (not further specified).


Now for my "course":

I'm no "oldtimer", but I'm already long enough into the sport to know, that there are different people for different answers (on the same questions). I could have gone the "easy way", but didn't want to.

So i chose Jasper Williams for a coach.

I did this, because he's a super conscius and really safety-aware instructor. (AFF, Video, Canopy courses, 3000+ jumps). I had so many talks with him during my AFF and afterwards on dozens of topics and always liked his calm personality.

One of the things he did, was to help me develop my own Cut-Away for my helmet and develop it even further.


So we agreeed, that he would iontroduce me into videoflying.

Just as I expected it was A LOT more than: "Mind the snag hazard".

SOME of the things that might not come to mind first:

- Fit all camera related things into your routine. Examples: In the morning check your Cypres, AND your Batteries for the camera. Put on your Altimeter AND your GoPro-remote, etc...
So you don't have to worry or get into a hurry.
As he is into professionell video-flying he always made sure, thta you make (Camera-)gearcheck a habit, so you will not have to disappoint a customer or fellow flyer at the ground, because you forget to ensure working gear.

- He went through me EPs several times during the briefing and beetween jumps, in order to make the helmet-cutaway a habit, as well as placing a check for the helmet-cutaway handle into my routinely gearcheck before bording, in the plane, and right after opening my canopy.

- Going through my pull-position with regard to the camera


Beside these (and many more) camera-related things he went through so many other safety-related things again and again that I learned (and regained) a lot more than just the camera-things.

After all, I DID learn a lot, adjusted my gearchecks and EPs, got even more safety-aware AND had a lot of fun during this day and had some built-in bellyflying training :)


NOW I'm allowed to use the camera for inside-view and after a further check-jump on outside-view for small belly-RW.

For outside-video of other disciplines a have to get a "rating" for the discipline itself first, but no further camera-check-jump (not sure on the last).

AND after all, I have to say, all this adresses more the time-to-time and for-fun camera-jumper, for professionell video-flying you should get further briefing and coaching, like ground-video, video-suit, big equipment etc.




You may discuss the 100-jump limit, but this is a different topic.

For the course itself I think that the instructors-manual should get a bit more precise and perhaps have some print-material or hand-out on the different topics. But if on does it like my instructor did, i think it's a real progress and a safe and sound way to introduce into camera-flying.



FrE3minD / Andreas W.

Germany - Herrenteich - DFV 17863