First Cutaway

[tmarine253 0]

First jump of the day today, I had my first cutaway. Pulled at about 3200 feet, under canopy at 2200 and it immediately spun up and started spinning me around pretty fast. Grabbed the risers, made two attempts to kick out, couldn't do it. Chopped at about 2000 and under reserve at 1800. Landed the reserve canopy just fine. Everything got put back together today, and the rigger told me that the malfunction could have been caused from a brake fire. I didn't even think to unstow the brakes, we live and learn, I still do not regret the decision to chop. Good times.

[mattjw916 2]

Had my first one last weekend too. Spun up quite violently for no apparent reason. Was annoyed more than anything else.

http://youtu.be/3yye6PVxya0

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[piisfish 137]

mattjw916

Had my first one last weekend too. Spun up quite violently for no apparent reason. Was annoyed more than anything else.

http://youtu.be/3yye6PVxya0

seems to be body position to me look at your main risers

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[mattjw916 2]

rofl, I'm going with asymmetrical leg straps + high wingload due to freefall collision just as I was about to dock on the big way (someone slid under me from behind and the left as I approached, never saw him)

vid of that is on my page too, lol...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[skez 0]

My first cutaway 500ft terrible body position to back it up lol

http://youtu.be/7vam4Qu-P04

Ps. I know this isn't the smartest thing to do..

FTMC

[piisfish 137]

skez

My first cutaway 500ft terrible body position to back it up lol

http://youtu.be/7vam4Qu-P04

Ps. I know this isn't the smartest thing to do..

why do you check your altitude every 1 1/2 second on the climb and nothing on the descent

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skez 0]

Coz the refresh rate on them watches suck...its more about controlling the tow then anything to do with the cutaway if u go to high the rope will get to a severe angle and start loading everything up badly

FTMC

[gowlerk 2,099]

skez

My first cutaway 500ft terrible body position to back it up lol

http://youtu.be/7vam4Qu-P04

Ps. I know this isn't the smartest thing to do..

Yup, go do it again till you get it right! Great idea, I'm thinking it would be nice for cutaway practice in the student program. Instead of the graduation hop and pop.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skez 0]

Lol i will.... and has anyone ever thought or tried something like hanging a rig over a foam pit or something like that for people to practise cutaways?

FTMC

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

skez

Lol i will.... and has anyone ever thought or tried something like hanging a rig over a foam pit or something like that for people to practise cutaways?

We have practice cutaway rigs you strap into. They do drop you about a foot and a half (IIRC, it's been a couple years) when you cut away, but it's decent experience. I went about 170 jumps before cutting away but when I had to, I went through the EPs as if I'd been doing them every day all along.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[skez 0]

Seems like a good idea to...Also when we get taught we locate and grab both handles....which makes more sense in a real cutaway unlike people with an rsl only grabing the cutaway pulling it and relying on there rsl

FTMC

[tmarine253 0]

Yeah I have an RSL and I'll say when I cutaway today I grabbed both handles, after I pulled the cutaway handle, I pulled the reserve handle and there was absolutely no tension in it due to the RSL. I'm glad I have an RSL but I'll never rely on it and not pull reserve.

[chuckakers 417]

tmarine253

First jump of the day today, I had my first cutaway. Pulled at about 3200 feet, under canopy at 2200 and it immediately spun up and started spinning me around pretty fast. Grabbed the risers, made two attempts to kick out, couldn't do it. Chopped at about 2000 and under reserve at 1800. Landed the reserve canopy just fine. Everything got put back together today, and the rigger told me that the malfunction could have been caused from a brake fire. I didn't even think to unstow the brakes, we live and learn, I still do not regret the decision to chop. Good times.

Given the altitudes you discussed, I wouldn't consider a chop without checking the brakes a bad move under the circumstances.

Understand this: line twists on a large, docile canopy flying straight ahead are quite different than line twists on a spinning canopy of even a moderate wing loading.

Your responsibility is to get a controllable canopy over your head and to do so at an altitude that will still give you survivable landing options. You saddled at 1800 and at least by USPA standards that's pretty much the bottom.

I have yet in my nearly 30 years in the sport had to bury a friend that performed EP's with sufficient altitude or higher, but have buried several that for whatever reason did not or could not.

PLEASE do not get it in your head that you would be better served to screw around looking for brake releases and other crap when the sh*t hits the fan. You performed well. The wad over your head was going to kill you so you did exactly as you trained to do and you lived.

Bravo.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[tmarine253 0]

Thanks Chuck. I 110% agree with you in that getting a landable canopy overhead is the most important thing. Going over the jump over and over in my head, I would have done nothing different. I absolutely stand by the decision to chop. I've had plenty of line twists where the canopy was flying straight. This is the first time I have been spun up and was moving toward the ground and I don't load my canopy very high at all. Definitely very very different. Let me correct myself, the one thing I would do different is try to keep the handles.

[skez 0]

Its ok to drop the handles as long as no one finds out lol

FTMC

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

skez

Seems like a good idea to...Also when we get taught we locate and grab both handles....which makes more sense in a real cutaway unlike people with an rsl only grabing the cutaway pulling it and relying on there rsl

Yeah, in our practice rig even though you get dropped a foot and then stop, you still gotta find the other handle and pull it (Or get to do it again heh heh.) When discussing the potential for a cutaway in ground school the instructor said "The RSL will probably beat you to the punch, but go for the second handle anyway."

On mine, my RSL did beat me to the punch, but I was reaching for the second handle when the reserve opened. I don't think it beat me by more than half a second. I'm planning to keep going for it in future cutaways.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Hellis 0]

FlyingRhenquest

***Lol i will.... and has anyone ever thought or tried something like hanging a rig over a foam pit or something like that for people to practise cutaways?

We have practice cutaway rigs you strap into. They do drop you about a foot and a half (IIRC, it's been a couple years) when you cut away, but it's decent experience. I went about 170 jumps before cutting away but when I had to, I went through the EPs as if I'd been doing them every day all along.

With this rig we can train our students with highspeed malfunctions too such as delayed PC, PCIT, horse shoe, pin lock, or not beeing able to find the handle.

Edit: forgot the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jak6nP7D8-I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[potatoman 0]

why does the word beer come to mind?

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[flyhi 24]

Quote

seems to be body position to me

That's what his packer said, too.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[Di0 1]

You did good!
Congratulations!

Out of curiosity, you say you spun up "pretty fast". Your rigger says it might have been a brake fire. What canopy/WL do you fly? Brake fires are normally nothing more than half brake turns, so on "normal' canopies they aren't *that* fast. I know that because on my 7 years old risers (I finally replaced them last weekend lol) I had brake fires on 7 out of 10 times on average. And generally the spin is comparable to a slow turn (but I was also on a very flat canopy, so also the input given by the offset induced by the remaining brake was probably minimal).
Maybe you had a combination of two things: line twist induced a brake fire etc. etc. That's why kicking wasn't enough or wasn't effective. But that's just a guess as good/bad as any.

Either way, you hit your decision altitude and you decided.
If your decision altitude is 2000ft though and you regularly have 1000ft snivels (?), you might want to consider bringing your deployment altitude up a notch. You're not leaving yourself too much time to deal with these issues. If I knew my snivels are regularly 1000ft, I wouldn't dump at 1200 from my decision altitude, but that's just me.
If 1000ft was just an exceptionally long snivel on top of other problems you had, well, shuuuucks. That's why we have a reserve. :)

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[JohnMitchell 16]

tmarine253

it immediately spun up and started spinning me around pretty fast. Grabbed the risers, made two attempts to kick out, couldn't do it.

I didn't even think to unstow the brakes,

You actually did all you could do. When you have line twists, those steering lines are locked in the twists like they are set in concrete. There's nothing you can do with the toggles. Once I had to chop because of spinning while in line twists. I released the brakes and pulled but got nowhere. Total waste of time.

Your rigger said "toggle fire", right? I've never had that happen on any rig I've jumped. Maybe double check your packing or your brake set up. There might be room for improvement. Small tip: every time I set my brakes I yank up sharply on the steering line above the keeper ring, just to make sure everything is well seated and stays in place. If you made a mistake setting them, it should show up when you do that.

Nice job on your cutaway, esp. watching your altitude.

[JohnMitchell 16]

skez

..Also when we get taught we locate and grab both handles....which makes more sense in a real cutaway unlike people with an rsl only grabing the cutaway pulling it and relying on there rsl

At our DZ we teach "grab both handles" to our students. Seems to work well. Most hard pulls are caused by poor technique, IMO.

[tmarine253 0]

Di0 I jump a Sabre 2 135, I load it at about 1.2 maybe a little less depending on my weight that day, I'm a small guy and my weight fluctuates 5 or so pounds any given week. You're right, it may have been a combo of line twist and a brake fire. 3200 was a little lower than I normally like to pull, I generally pull at 4000 but the guys I was jumping with wanted to 3500 and I was cool with that, went slightly lower than I would have liked. My canopy generally takes about 800 feet to open. John, I appreciate the advice I always do a brake check when packing but will definitely be doing what you described from now on to ensure they are tight. It was a fun time but an expensive day, I lost the handles, freebag and reserve pilot chute, hopefully I don't have another one for a while.

[Di0 1]

Yes, that's what I thought so it was a "combination of factors", a little lower than you're used to, a little longer snivel, possible brake fire, probably line twist, etc. etc.
Shit happens, you did the right thing! :)


I'm also a small guy, I have been jumping at 1.2 on a 149 for some time now (only very recently switched to 129s).
Brake fire aren't *that* bad, I can usually control them almost instantly with the opposite riser, but either way, bad or not, when you run out of altitude it's time to say see you later to that canopy.
Food for thoughts, acting on the risers not by just pulling them apart, but by putting them at the same level (something people often forget) to cancel a possible offset, and then pulling the opposite side riser as in an opposite turn might stop a spin and slow the canopy descent rate. Nothing you should play with below your decision altitude, but something worth a shot if you're still above it. Or a worthwhile fight if, God forbid, it's your reserve to be f****** up.

I hear you on being a small guy, I am also 145-150 (without gear) depending on the size of the breakfast vs the crap I took in the morning. :D

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[dthames 0]

skez

Seems like a good idea to...Also when we get taught we locate and grab both handles....which makes more sense in a real cutaway unlike people with an rsl only grabing the cutaway pulling it and relying on there rsl

Recently I had a cutaway and I just went for the one handle, first, because that is what I wanted.....to get away from the main that was not my friend. I knew the RSL was there and I knew the reserve handle was also there. I am sure my behavior would have been the same without an RSL.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”