Arizona SB1159

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

In what world?  A D & C is a medical procedure used for more than abortion.

Hi airdvr,

A number of lifetimes ago, when I was a young typewriter jockey in hospitals in Uncle Sammie's Air Force, we did a fair amount of them.

I never heard of one being done on a 10 yr old.

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,254]

43 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Please.  If the mother (who knew about the abuse) had reported the rape to the authorities the child would have seen a doctor and a D & C would have been ordered.  Instead...this

https://fox59.com/news/national-world/everything-they-are-saying-against-him-is-a-lie-mother-of-10-year-old-rape-victim-defends-suspect-to-reporter/

But that's a whole 'nother thread.

Right, it’s the ten year old’s own stupid fault for having negligent parents. Republican consciences successfully soothed.

 

[billvon 2,380]

55 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Please.  If the mother (who knew about the abuse) had reported the rape to the authorities the child would have seen a doctor and a D & C would have been ordered.

And the doctor (if in Texas) would have ended up in jail.

[billeisele 122]

9 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Well, to be fair, Arizona has a serious teacher shortage — over 25% of vacancies are unfilled, and over half of vacancies are filled by teachers without the proper credentials. The bill also makes it easier to regain expired (but not removed) certificates. This may be a case of doing something less than perfect to make a more critical bad situation less bad. Not a good solution, but it puts bodies into classrooms.

Increasing pay would probably also help, but why pay poor people when you can just qualify more poor people and increase the size of the applicant pool?

Wendy P. 

Yep. Certainly there are other requirements, but then stating them would make the post less sensational. But maybe there isn't.

SC also has a shortage, and pay is a problem. They are slowly addressing it but it remains a problem. They allow people without a teaching certificate to teach if they have specific expertise in the field they teach. Often it's in math, foreign language or science.

 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

14 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Yep. Certainly there are other requirements, but then stating them would make the post less sensational. But maybe there isn't.

SC also has a shortage, and pay is a problem. They are slowly addressing it but it remains a problem. They allow people without a teaching certificate to teach if they have specific expertise in the field they teach. Often it's in math, foreign language or science.

 

Relying on subject matter “experts “, or internet influencers for that matter, instead of a trained and well paid professional teaching cadre is a very slippery slope in my view. That said I’m certain I could do much to advance the current societal decline if I was given just a few first grade classes.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

27 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Yep. Certainly there are other requirements, but then stating them would make the post less sensational. But maybe there isn't.

SC also has a shortage, and pay is a problem. They are slowly addressing it but it remains a problem. They allow people without a teaching certificate to teach if they have specific expertise in the field they teach. Often it's in math, foreign language or science.

 

Hi Bill,

Re:  pay is a problem

My former wife taught 2nd grade for four years.  I would argue that it is not the pay.  It is the respect.  Nobody is on the teacher's side anymore.

When 'Johnny Can't Read' is the teacher's fault, we are doomed.

Fortunately, she taught both of our kids to read before they were in kindergarten.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  And, when you have a problem child along with problem parents, no teacher can get him/her to read.

 

[SkyDekker 1,120]

19 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Re:  pay is a problem

My former wife taught 2nd grade for four years.  I would argue that it is not the pay.  It is the respect.  Nobody is on the teacher's side anymore.

When 'Johnny Can't Read' is the teacher's fault, we are doomed.

Fortunately, she taught both of our kids to read before they were in kindergarten.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  And, when you have a problem child along with problem parents, no teacher can get him/her to read.

 

Now that we are arming teachers, we should just allow them to shoot the troublesome, disrespectful kids. Guns really do solve all problems!

[gowlerk 1,902]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

In what world?  A D & C is a medical procedure used for more than abortion.

Yes, but it is not a therapy used on rape victims. Do you really think that a 10 YO girl if reporting a rape will be then subjected to a highly invasive procedure like a D&C "just in case"? Do you not think enough trama has been inflicted on her? 

[Phil1111 907]

39 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Now that we are arming teachers, we should just allow them to shoot the troublesome, disrespectful kids. Guns really do solve all problems!

The only answer to an armed teacher is an armed child.

[airdvr 197]

14 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, but it is not a therapy used on rape victims. Do you really think that a 10 YO girl if reporting a rape will be then subjected to a highly invasive procedure like a D&C "just in case"? Do you not think enough trama has been inflicted on her? 

No doctor would allow a 10 yo to have a child.

[airdvr 197]

16 hours ago, jakee said:

Right, it’s the ten year old’s own stupid fault for having negligent parents. Republican consciences successfully soothed.

 

Negligent parents abound.  Maybe if we stopped paying them to have kids...  The responsibility falls directly to the parent.

[gowlerk 1,902]

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

No doctor would allow a 10 yo to have a child.

What are you talking about? Do you not understand the force of the law? Do you expect a doctor to have to risk going to jail? And why the hell should it even be an issue? Making abortion completely illegal is the direction many states are headed, and some are there already. Even for 10 YO victims. Because that's how they roll. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by gowlerk

[airdvr 197]

Pretty sure the courts would order a D&C.  The bigger question here is whether a 10yo needing an abortion shouldn't trigger some type of response from LE.

[Phil1111 907]

28 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Pretty sure the courts would order a D&C.  The bigger question here is whether a 10yo needing an abortion shouldn't trigger some type of response from LE.

Agree, thats the biggest issue in this equation.

[billvon 2,380]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

No doctor would allow a 10 yo to have a child.

Doctors in Texas have no choice.  They could end up broke or in jail.

Quote

Pretty sure the courts would order a D&C.

Doesn't matter.  In Texas, any citizen can sue anyone who performs or aids an abortion, even if the court orders it.  Every Bible-thumping conservative in Texas could sue the doctor, and he would have to defend himself against each one.

Ask yourself this.  Let's say you are a firefighter.  The county's charter protects you from lawsuits in the performance of your duty.  Except for one block of the town.  If you fight a fire in that one block, then anyone in the town can sue you for anything.  Guy gets woken up by your siren?  He can sue you.  Woman has a miscarriage the day later because of the smoke?  She can sue you.  Guy ten streets over thinks you weren't fast enough?  He can sue you.  Guy next to him thinks you were too fast?  He can sue you.  His son doesn't like your hair?  He can sue you.  Not the fire department - you, personally.   And if you do not defend those lawsuits yourself, personally, then a summary judgment will be awarded against you.

You gonna fight any fires there?

Quote

The bigger question here is whether a 10yo needing an abortion shouldn't trigger some type of response from LE.

Oh, it did.  The state AG said it was all a liberal lie - "Every day that goes by the more likely that this is a fabrication. . . . What I'm saying to you is there is not a damn scintilla of evidence. And shame on the Indianapolis paper that ran this thing on a single source who has an obvious axe to grind."

Until a local cop caught the guy.  Then he had to do some high speed backtracking.

[SkyDekker 1,120]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Negligent parents abound.  Maybe if we stopped paying them to have kids... 

Nothing like forcing people to have kids and then not providing any support....fucking brilliant, what could possibly go wrong

[SkyDekker 1,120]

7 minutes ago, billvon said:

Every Bible-thumping conservative in Texas could sue the doctor, and he would have to defend himself against each one.

The law also states the the doctor cannot be awarded restitution for legal costs.

[gowlerk 1,902]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Pretty sure the courts would order a D&C.  The bigger question here is whether a 10yo needing an abortion shouldn't trigger some type of response from LE.

It did trigger a response. Courts are pretty slow acting. And why do you keep calling an abortion a "D&C" as if that changes it? The big question here is why a state government passed a law making it necessary for the child to go to another state.

[billvon 2,380]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Negligent parents abound. 

So clearly the best thing to do is - reconsider whether birth control should be legal.  Start banning it.  And stop teaching sex ed.  That way we can max out our negligent parent outrage.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/05/19/some-states-already-are-targeting-birth-control

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256

https://www.comprehensivesexualityeducation.org/

https://www.parents.com/kids/education/schools-are-banning-sex-ed-lessons-and-its-harming-our-children/

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Pretty sure the courts would order a D&C.  The bigger question here is whether a 10yo needing an abortion shouldn't trigger some type of response from LE.

Ahh, notes from the Heartland. Thanks.

[yoink 321]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

The responsibility falls directly to the parent.

I'm baffled and disgusted that you can somehow reason your way to this sentence.

You could have the worst parents in the world - Ones teaching their kids to go out and fuck anything moving as soon as possible and you know who bears the responsibility if that happens? 

THE FUCKING RAPIST. 

The person sick enough to perform a criminal act on a child. It's not something you can pass off by saying 'oh, I didn't know it was wrong!' or 'but she wanted it!' 

 

Jesus fucking Christ.

Edited July 19, 2022 by yoink

[jakee 1,254]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

Negligent parents abound.  

Yes. Exactly. That’s the whole fucking point.

So please ask your Republican friends to stop writing cruel laws that hurt children even more than simply having the negligent parent already does.

[jakee 1,254]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

No doctor would allow a 10 yo to have a child.

Jesus fucking Christ that is so naive you cannot possibly actually believe it. When you have to obviously lie to yourself to support your point of you then surely it would be easier to simply acknowledge reality instead?
 

Doctors who want to continue being doctors (I.e. pretty much all of the good ones) in places where abortion is illegal will allow a 10 year old to have a baby. This is why said 10 year old could not get an abortion in her state, because the doctors there would have allowed her to have a baby. That is what really happened in the real world where real people live.

Edited July 19, 2022 by jakee

[gowlerk 1,902]

3 minutes ago, jakee said:

Doctors who want to continue being doctors (I.e. pretty much all of the good ones) in places where abortion is illegal will allow a 10 year old to have a baby. This is why said 10 year old could not get an abortion in her state, because the doctors there would have allowed her to have a baby. That is what really happened in the real world where real people live.

The Dr. who did perform the abortion was outed by the AG of her state, threatened with legal action, and now has to worry that some American idiot with a high powered rifle will assassinate her, which is the fate of others in the same posistion. Open your eyes Airdvr.

[SkyDekker 1,120]

34 minutes ago, jakee said:

Jesus fucking Christ that is so naive you cannot possibly actually believe it. When you have to obviously lie to yourself to support your point of you then surely it would be easier to simply acknowledge reality instead?
 

Doctors who want to continue being doctors (I.e. pretty much all of the good ones) in places where abortion is illegal will allow a 10 year old to have a baby. This is why said 10 year old could not get an abortion in her state, because the doctors there would have allowed her to have a baby. That is what really happened in the real world where real people live.

Some people seem to have no sense about "unintended consequences".

Yes the idea of not having to perform any abortions is wonderful, in a world where everything is just peachy. What we are seeing now is people having to come to terms with what that all means in the real world. So now we see people saying stuff like, well that isn't really an abortion, it is a D7C. And, did you know that D7Cs can also be used for something other than an abortion. So a doctor would have performed one of those and not an evil abortion. See it is all good....