stayhigh 2 #1 December 28, 2014 The designer should put their name along the logo, kinda like surfboards. Was it the same person who designed Velo, created Peregrine/Vakery? Was it the same person who designed vx/fx, created petra/lela? What about Sabres and Safires? Is all PD canopy shaped by one person? What about Icarus?Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #2 December 29, 2014 hmm, never thought of that but I actually like the idea! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #3 December 29, 2014 It's probably never the effort of one man when talking about the major players PD and Icarus. stayhighWas it the same person who designed vx/fx, created petra/lela? I can't be 100% certain of that, but during PIA'13 a young guy called Julien Peelman (? spelling ? )who works for NZ Aerosports gave a really cool seminar on canopy aerodynamics. I left the room with the impression that he is the guy behind the Petra, although he never said :" I designed Petra". I don't know how old is he, but I highly doubt that he was a skydiver when VX and FX came on the market . I'm also curious now !"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #4 December 29, 2014 I feel like one or two person designs it, and the test dummies give the person feed back and the designer changes according to the input they have given. Where are all the smart ass to answer this topic? Who do we give credit to? I can't see x-brace designer, developing tandem canopy, and vice versa.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travman 6 #5 December 29, 2014 John Le Blanc is PD's lead designer, no doubt he was involved in all of PD's canopies to some level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 754 #6 December 29, 2014 Typically when you create something while working for a company/corporation, that company is the one credited with the product. I've signed contracts expressing just that as a condition of employment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #7 December 29, 2014 normissTypically when you create something while working for a company/corporation, that company is the one credited with the product. I've signed contracts expressing just that as a condition of employment. Not necessarily. Patents are given to individuals even when employed by a corporation.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 754 #8 December 30, 2014 Sometimes that is correct. It's all in your negotiating skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #9 December 30, 2014 I think we all know who made Sensei, Lotus, Samurai. Found this over the net. It is from the past Parashitist magazine. It is an interview with John LeBlanc. Of all the parachutes you have created, which has been your favorite? It is a toss up between the Stiletto and the Velocity. These are my favorites because they are so high performance but also really well behaved at low speeds and capable of amazing things in the right hands. I was never a more current skydiver than during these two projects, and I am really pleased to see how well they were accepted by the skydiving community. The Stiletto is 20 years old and still going strong! So I guess this guy designs them all for PD.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,495 #10 December 30, 2014 Remster***Typically when you create something while working for a company/corporation, that company is the one credited with the product. I've signed contracts expressing just that as a condition of employment. Not necessarily. Patents are given to individuals even when employed by a corporation. The name of the inventor is on the patent. The rights to that patent are often held by the corporation. My dad "held" a number of patents. He was one of the inventors of the thing that was patented. The company he worked for held the rights (and made the money). But Normiss is right. It depends on how the employment contract is written."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #11 December 30, 2014 well pd copied everything nz has ever made. so they designed everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #12 December 30, 2014 dqpackerwell pd copied everything nz has ever made. so they designed everything.yay let the fanboy shitshow beginscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #13 December 30, 2014 well nz copied everything pd has ever made. so they designed everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #14 December 30, 2014 piisfish ***well pd copied everything nz has ever made. so they designed everything. yay let the fanboy shitshow begin do the swiss have a word for sarcasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #15 December 30, 2014 Did PD started their company first or Icarus did?Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,426 #16 December 30, 2014 Quote So I guess this guy designs them all for PD. Well, it depends what answer you're looking for doesn't it? John LeBlanc is the head of PD's design department, so all of PD's canopies are 'his'. But that doesn't mean he was the only guy, or even neccessarily the main guy, putting pen to paper on every single canopy they make. Otherwise they wouldn't have a design department, they'd just have John LeBlancOn a far larger scale, Adrian Newey is given credit for 'designing' Red Bull's F1 car. But really he's the guy setting the direction for, and managing the efforts of a team of 100s of engineers specialising in every aspect of the design.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #17 December 30, 2014 You aren't really sure either a? Just speculating is all. Just remembered name Jyro, and did google search..... Paul Jyro Martin of NZ Aerosports in New Zealand. An early and unrefined version of the crossbraced idea was design patented by Bill Coe and sold under the brand name Excalibur by Performance Designs, but the early F-111 crossbraced Excalibur never exhibited the opening and flying characteristics that were acceptable to skydivers. With Jyro's refinement to the idea designed as the Icarus Extreme, and Precision's manufacturing capability and distribution channels in the USA and around the world, an agreement was solidified by Precision Aerodynamics, Inc. to manufacture Jyro's Icarus Extreme design under a patent royalty agreement with Bill Coe of Performance Designs. During late 1998 and early 1999, Precision Aerodynamics, Inc. released the first 27-cell crossbraced design marketed as the Icarus Extreme VX. Other canopies came to market during the same timeframe, the Icarus Omega and the Icarus Safire, and the Icarus Crossfire. Frustrated with the lack of NZA's support and willingness to move forward with the stagnation of the crossbraced designs, the Icarus designs were sold off to a new company called Icarus Canopies, Inc., and Precision Aerodynamics, Inc.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #18 December 31, 2014 dqpacker ******well pd copied everything nz has ever made. so they designed everything. yay let the fanboy shitshow begin do the swiss have a word for sarcasm? yes, sarcowsmscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivah1 0 #19 January 14, 2015 If Bill Coe/PD owns the patent to cross brace technology, then does NZ Aerosports have to pay PD a royalty fee everytime they sell a cross braced canopy? And if the closed nose was developed and patented by Jyro to tame the openings, does PD pay royalties to Icarus on that refinement? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LimaZulu 0 #20 January 14, 2015 Does Bill Coe still hold the patent for x-bracing? My knowledge is, that patents are limited for a few years. After that time you have to pay ?? % from the volume of future sales to hold it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #21 January 14, 2015 skydivah1If Bill Coe/PD owns the patent to cross brace technology, then does NZ Aerosports have to pay PD a royalty fee everytime they sell a cross braced canopy? And if the closed nose was developed and patented by Jyro to tame the openings, does PD pay royalties to Icarus on that refinement? I'm sure the Excalibur patents have long since expired. An early and unrefined version of the crossbraced idea was design patented by Bill Coe and sold under the brand name Excalibur by Performance Designs, but the early F-111 crossbraced Excalibur never exhibited the opening and flying characteristics that were acceptable to skydivers. With Jyro's refinement to the idea designed as the Icarus Extreme, and Precision's manufacturing capability and distribution channels in the USA and around the world, an agreement was solidified by Precision Aerodynamics, Inc. to manufacture Jyro's Icarus Extreme design under a patent royalty agreement with Bill Coe of Performance Designs. During late 1998 and early 1999, Precision Aerodynamics, Inc. released the first 27-cell crossbraced design marketed as the Icarus Extreme VX. Source: http://www.precision.aero/about-precision.htm"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivah1 0 #22 January 14, 2015 ryoder***If Bill Coe/PD owns the patent to cross brace technology, then does NZ Aerosports have to pay PD a royalty fee everytime they sell a cross braced canopy? And if the closed nose was developed and patented by Jyro to tame the openings, does PD pay royalties to Icarus on that refinement? I'm sure the Excalibur patents have long since expired. An early and unrefined version of the crossbraced idea was design patented by Bill Coe and sold under the brand name Excalibur by Performance Designs, but the early F-111 crossbraced Excalibur never exhibited the opening and flying characteristics that were acceptable to skydivers. With Jyro's refinement to the idea designed as the Icarus Extreme, and Precision's manufacturing capability and distribution channels in the USA and around the world, an agreement was solidified by Precision Aerodynamics, Inc. to manufacture Jyro's Icarus Extreme design under a patent royalty agreement with Bill Coe of Performance Designs. During late 1998 and early 1999, Precision Aerodynamics, Inc. released the first 27-cell crossbraced design marketed as the Icarus Extreme VX. Source: http://www.precision.aero/about-precision.htm Can you reapply for your original patent? Seems a shame to invent something only to completely lose rights to it years down the road due to a technicality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #23 January 14, 2015 skydivah1 Can you reapply for your original patent? Seems a shame to invent something only to completely lose rights to it years down the road due to a technicality You think the descendants of the inventor of the wheel should still be getting royalties? Under current U.S. law, the term of patent is 20 years from the earliest claimed filing date (which can be extended via Patent term adjustment and Patent Term Extension[clarification needed]). For applications filed before June 8, 1995, the term is either 17 years from the issue date or 20 years from the earliest claimed domestic priority date, whichever is longer. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_patent_law"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
colossus 0 #24 January 14, 2015 If I recall correctly, the concept of the patent, is to ensure that the individual/company that came up with the idea, can recoup their investment from the development of the idea. The reason that patents are not, usually, indefinitely, is so that advances can be put upon the original patents, and to encourage others to learn from, and build upon the original idea. If patents were indefinite, then innovation would be hampered. If you want to read more about patents, check out the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blis 1 #25 January 15, 2015 colossusIf I recall correctly, the concept of the patent, is to ensure that the individual/company that came up with the idea, can recoup their investment from the development of the idea. The reason that patents are not, usually, indefinitely, is so that advances can be put upon the original patents, and to encourage others to learn from, and build upon the original idea. If patents were indefinite, then innovation would be hampered. If you want to read more about patents, check out the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent That is the actual reason some companies dont patent things becouse it would mean they had to disclose their ideas to public. If you dont patent it you can keep everything disclosed and within the house... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites