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kallend

BoJo out

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3 hours ago, jakee said:

Lol, no. They’re not as bad as most of the current Republican Party but nothing happening here is an indication of integrity. The Tory party stood by BoJo and defended through everything, for years, except this. It’s funny that numerous MPs and Ministers publicly calling for his resignation yesterday pointed out that they backed him in the confidence vote after the lockdown party scandal ‘because they believed his promise that things would change’. 
 

Boris will never change. He’s always been the same. A liar and a cheat in every relationship and every job he’s ever had. Fired from his first newspaper job for using fictional quotes and sources. Fired from his first political job for fucking his secretary and lying to his boss about it. Even his teacher at Eton, a private school where pupils are quite literally taught to believe that they are the future leaders of the country, said in a report that Boris was an entitled little shit who was incapable of  understanding that the rules were supposed to apply to him too. And the Tory party tried to ignore it all. They stood with him for years through the cavalcade of lies, fraud, incompetence and cronyism he’s perpetrated from 10 Downing Street because they thought he’d win them the next election.

They haven’t grown a conscience, they’ve just realised that at this rate the voters will have had enough by then, and he’d have dragged them down with him if they’d let him.

Another Oxford alumnus!

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3 hours ago, olofscience said:

Nah, they were perfectly fine with him lying to the public repeatedly.

What broke them was him lying to them repeatedly.

Hasn't broken the GOP here.

Rampant lying as a firing offense for their leader remains a point in British political culture’s favor. So, too, is a parliamentary system that makes it possible to oust an unfit national leader without waiting for a new election or enduring an impeachment crisis.

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4 hours ago, olofscience said:

Nah, they were perfectly fine with him lying to the public repeatedly.

What broke them was him lying to them repeatedly.

 

“I’m not arguing there are no decent people in the Tory party but they're like sweetcorn in a turd; technically they kept their integrity but they're still embedded in shit” - Iain Banks

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31 minutes ago, rifleman said:

 

“I’m not arguing there are no decent people in the Tory party but they're like sweetcorn in a turd; technically they kept their integrity but they're still embedded in shit” - Iain Banks

Just replace "Tory" with "Republican" and it is just as true here.

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1 hour ago, kallend said:

Hasn't broken the GOP here.

Rampant lying as a firing offense for their leader remains a point in British political culture’s favor. So, too, is a parliamentary system that makes it possible to oust an unfit national leader without waiting for a new election or enduring an impeachment crisis.

Well…. Sort of yes. But again it needed the Tory party to get to the point where they thought Boris was becoming a handicap at the polls for them to act on anything. It’s no coincidence the breaking point came shortly after two huge by-election defeats.

Without those, and if this Pincher thing hadn’t happened we could have been barrelling towards a full blown Constitutional crisis. If the standards committee had eventually decided that Boris lied to Parliament during Partygate he definitely would not have resigned as required by the Ministerial code. And his party may well have thought that after so much time had past and voters had started to forgive and forget, they could get away with not enforcing the code and getting rid of him. Then a no confidence vote brought by Labour would definitely not get the support it needed from the Tories (just like in US Impeachment proceedings).

After that the only remaining option would be for the Queen to dismiss the PM, and it’s highly unlikely she would do that because it would be like detonating a nuclear bomb in the heart of British Democracy. 
 

So it’s perhaps not too hyperbolic to say that our entire system of accountability in government was saved by a middle aged pervert copping a feel in a crowded bar.

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2 minutes ago, jakee said:


 

So it’s perhaps not too hyperbolic to say that our entire system of accountability in government was saved by a middle aged pervert copping a feel in a crowded bar.

Every cloud has a silver lining -  even perverts have their uses.

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4 minutes ago, Erroll said:

He (barely) survived a 'no confidence vote' just recently, and technically can't be subjected to another one for a year.

Although had he tried to hang on in there they were talking about changing the rules to allow it.

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6 hours ago, jakee said:

Lol, no. They’re not as bad as most of the current Republican Party but nothing happening here is an indication of integrity....

They haven’t grown a conscience, they’ve just realised that at this rate the voters will have had enough by then, and he’d have dragged them down with him if they’d let him.

You seem to have some sort of idealized concept of how political parties operate. That they operate without party whips. Perhaps you'd like to identify the party and leader that doesn't lie about policy, economics, budgets, etc.

In the Canadian parliament a member that called upon its leader to resign during question period. Would be tossed from the party the same day.

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1 minute ago, Erroll said:

He (barely) survived a 'no confidence vote' just recently, and technically can't be subjected to another one for a year.

That’s incorrect (though an entirely understandable confusion).

Boris survived a confidence vote for leadership of his party. This is brought by Tory MPs and voted on by Tory MPs. This couldn’t be repeated for a year…. Except the Party could and probably would have simply changed the rules and held another one next week if he hadn’t stepped down. The result of this would be a Leadership election again within the Tory party and the winner would become PM for the remainder of Boris’ term (or until they decide to call snap election).

 

Gowlerk is talking about a Parliamentary confidence vote which would be brought by the Labour Party (the official opposition) and voted on by all MPs. This is the direct equivalent of impeachment, and is less likely to succeed because it would require Tories to vote in favour of a Labour. Also because the result if Boris lost would be a full General Election to choose a completely new government, and the Tories will not be very confident of voter support right now. Labour will quite possibly still bring this Confidence vote very soon if Boris stays. It’ll probably fail, but they’ll use it as a stick to beat all the incumbent Tory MPs who vote against it with at the next election.

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6 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You seem to have some sort of idealized concept of how political parties operate.

The fuck are you talking about? It was you who said they showed backbone and integrity - how can you possibly accuse anyone else of having an idealised view of them? :rofl:

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2 minutes ago, jakee said:

The fuck are you talking about? It was you who said they showed backbone and integrity - how can you possibly accuse anyone else of having an idealised view of them? :rofl:

So you can't name a political party and leader with your idealized standards? OK

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Just now, Phil1111 said:

So you can't name a political party and leader with your idealized standards? OK

What idealised standards? You said they showed backbone and integrity. That’s a hopelessly naive and idealised view of a group of people who simply acted according to their own survival instinct. Are you somehow under the impression that I wrote your post?

 

By the way, the confidence vote the Tories supported him in exactly a month ago was a secret ballot. Whips and peer pressure were both completely irrelevant. They simply thought it was in their own partisan best interest that he stay. But you think that view is ‘too idealised’ and they really acted for noble reasons:`D

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9 minutes ago, jakee said:

What idealised standards? You said they showed backbone and integrity. That’s a hopelessly naive and idealised view of a group of people who simply acted according to their own survival instinct. Are you somehow under the impression that I wrote your post?

 

By the way, the confidence vote the Tories supported him in exactly a month ago was a secret ballot. Whips and peer pressure were both completely irrelevant. They simply thought it was in their own partisan best interest that he stay. But you think that view is ‘too idealised’ and they really acted for noble reasons:`D

You're moving the goalposts. You laid out the litany of wrongdoing. Much of which was known to the UK electorate when he won his landslide election. So his last three years is whats of issue.

Do you have your skates on? Because you keep skating away from your goal of political idealism.

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28 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You're moving the goalposts. You laid out the litany of wrongdoing. Much of which was known to the UK electorate when he won his landslide election. So his last three years is whats of issue.

And that secret ballot was inside the last three years. And his party supported him in it despite the lack of any possible comeback from the whips. So congratulations on destroying your own argument.

31 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Do you have your skates on? Because you keep skating away from your goal of political idealism.

That doesn’t make any sense. Again you presented the absurdly naive, idealistic, rose tinted interpretation that the Tory party was showing backbone and integrity. I pointed out they were actually just acting for their own survival. So again, accusing me of idealism? The fuck are you talking about?:rofl:

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1 hour ago, jakee said:

 the absurdly naive, idealistic, rose tinted interpretation that the Tory party was showing backbone and integrity. I pointed out they were actually just acting for their own survival.

I would expect nothing else of any political party, especially one in power. It is for the same reason that churches have protecting child abusing clerics. Power and prestige come from posistion and membership and must be kept intact at all costs. Only when the price of holding on exceeds the benefits will people like Trump and Johnson be sacrificed.

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9 hours ago, jakee said:

Lol, no. They’re not as bad as most of the current Republican Party but nothing happening here is an indication of integrity. The Tory party stood by BoJo and defended through everything, for years, except this. It’s funny that numerous MPs and Ministers publicly calling for his resignation yesterday pointed out that they backed him in the confidence vote after the lockdown party scandal ‘because they believed his promise that things would change’. 
 

Boris will never change. He’s always been the same. A liar and a cheat in every relationship and every job he’s ever had. Fired from his first newspaper job for using fictional quotes and sources. Fired from his first political job for fucking his secretary and lying to his boss about it. Even his teacher at Eton, a private school where pupils are quite literally taught to believe that they are the future leaders of the country, said in a report that Boris was an entitled little shit who was incapable of  understanding that the rules were supposed to apply to him too. And the Tory party tried to ignore it all. They stood with him for years through the cavalcade of lies, fraud, incompetence and cronyism he’s perpetrated from 10 Downing Street because they thought he’d win them the next election.

They haven’t grown a conscience, they’ve just realised that at this rate the voters will have had enough by then, and he’d have dragged them down with him if they’d let him.

Hi jakee,

Do you realize how close that post is in describing Trump?

Jerry Baumchen

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