Big Weight Difference

[Avikus 0]

Greetings!

So a friend of mine started jumping last season. One evening, I went to her DZ and jumped with her. Now there if a huge weight difference. I'm 210lbs as she's 100lbs if not less (without gear). I knew that it would be close to impossible for me to slow down my fall rate compare to her, but she wanted to.

Now I told her that she needed to get some weight, vest or belt. But she doesn't want to hear it saying "it hurts too much".

What would you guys suggest I do? I want her to experience what this sport is all about but if she keeps to her 100lbs she'll always have problem jumping with other and not enjoy what this sport can show you.

In other words, have any counter points that would convince her to wear a weight aid?

Cheers,

Avikus - Packer and Jumper - Hate landing with the plane!

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

You could just tell her to learn to freefly so she can go head down and you can stay on your belly.

I did a hybrid belly/sit with a couple guys at the DZ last year that worked pretty well.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Avikus 0]

Ah! Well she has about 25 jumps, time for her to learn to HD.

Avikus - Packer and Jumper - Hate landing with the plane!

[sammielu 3]

Sometimes tiny and/or female people can bend in half and keep up. We all have to learn to fly our bodies and adjust to others fall rates.

Give her a chance, see what happens. Talk a lot about safety, what you are going to do to slow down, what she can do to speed up, and have a plan if you get separated.

It is possible to fly relative to others without weight. It helps to wear weight if you want to use your body for more than fall rate control. Ex: I can turn points with experienced fliers that have a big weight difference from me. I can turn double the points if we equalize using some weight.

Also: her adding weight now or in the future is something to include when choosing canopies. I fly a 1:1 ratio so I am comfortable adding 10+ lbs and landing downwind or no wind or whatever.

Weight is not required just like a baggy jumpsuit for you us not required. But it sure helps!

[RiggerLee 61]

Well the first thing she needs is a tight jump suit. Another secret is small grippers. The big huge competition grippers add a lot of drag. You can get by with less.

Weights suck. Doing CRW I some times wore up to 40 lbs of weight. In free fall even a small amount can help a lot. And she doesn't need as much as some people would put on her. It sounds like she had a bad experience with an uncomfortable weight belt. They may have tried to put too much weight on her. Or the belt may have been bad. When I started building belts it was from a problem just like this. Little tiny girl, very short. All the weight belts were too tall. When they are that small if the belt is taller the the space between the top of the hip and the bottom of the rib it gets very uncomfortable around the sides. We built her a belt with a wide thin pleated section across the lower back. It tapered to a narrow section that was short enough to go around her sides bellow her ribs. The pocket in front are built short and the weights small and divided to try to keep it as low profile as possible. It became the proto type for our weight belt. She's probable going to need some thing like that. You can build it or have her send me a message.

Another option is to look at putting weight pockets on the back pad of her rig. Depending on how it fits her that can be a good option. The nice thing about it is that you don't feel it on opening or under canopy. The rig supports that weight.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Avikus 0]

We're all on the track of thoughts. Sadly she keeps freaking out because it will mean she has a more aggressive landing (on a 150!!!)

Avikus - Packer and Jumper - Hate landing with the plane!

[irishrigger 31]

I always have that problem being a fat-arse 300 lbs without Gear
I do aff so i am always concerned about sinking out. sometimes a small girl can suprise you how fast they can fall
as rigger lee mentioned a very tight jumpsuit for here and a big baggy one for you will make it a lot easier to adjust to fall rates.
my solution is to wear a Camera jacket with wings that you can fasten to the hip rings. that works a treat for me and that way i do not have to put weight on a student. i use this Jacket at all times for AFF and i can go down to 100mph but after that i would be struggling. the slowest i clocked is after a student spun flat. i managed to get to him and that was clocked at 93mph. but it was very uncomftable for me.
so my advise would be do a well briefed jump with her with tight jumpsuit and you wearing a big loose one. see how that goes, if your struggling try a wings jacket that solved the problem for me.

[Avikus 0]

The problem is not between her and I, I'm mostly septic about her ability to do big ways with other people that weight heavier than her.

Avikus - Packer and Jumper - Hate landing with the plane!

[pchapman 261]

Avikus

it will mean she has a more aggressive landing (on a 150!!!)

... Moving her up from maybe 0.8 wing loading to a crazy 0.9.

(if she is say just under 100 lb + just over 20 gear +15 lead)

Mind you I can understand if one had crappy landings and fell over all the time, an extra 15 lbs wouldn't be fun on the ankles.

[NWFlyer 2]

Avikus

We're all on the track of thoughts. Sadly she keeps freaking out because it will mean she has a more aggressive landing (on a 150!!!)

She has 25 jumps. Everyfuckingthing is new at 25 jumps and the stuff that has probably become routine to you might be a little overwhelming still. Introducing new variables is (and should be) a big deal. Mocking her because she doesn't want to increase her wingloading isn't really a productive way to help this situation.

Other people have mentioned things she can do to start that will help her, without having to affect her wingloading. At some point adding weight will probably be something in her arsenal of tools, but if she's not comfortable doing it now, she's not comfortable.

See if you can connect her with other people in the area who have a similar build - talking to someone who has experienced it may help her to figure out what steps to take and in what order.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[sammielu 3]

^^^^yes.

I can't blame her for being nervous on a 150 at 25 jumps. Adding weight to that situation??? Crazy. Is there s bigger canopy she can fly until she is comfortable?

Yes, she will want weight eventually. But at 25 jumps, 2 and 3 ways are good, safe learning opportunities.

If she's nervous about jumping with you, one person with a different falk rate, she's not ready for more people in formation with her.

Have you thought about adding a camera jacket so you can fly at her speeds? Accommodations should be made towards the new jumper, not the other way around, IMHO.

[riggerrob 558]

Weight belts are "fat boys' revenge."

Start by dressing her in a snug-fitting Spandex, fast-falling suit.
Then stuff half a Nerf football in the belly of her jumpsuit.
Then dress yourself in a baggy, loose-fitting, slow-falling suit, with booties.

[Deimian 43]

sammielu

^^^^yes.

I can't blame her for being nervous on a 150 at 25 jumps. Adding weight to that situation??? Crazy. Is there s bigger canopy she can fly until she is comfortable?

Yes, she will want weight eventually. But at 25 jumps, 2 and 3 ways are good, safe learning opportunities.

If she's nervous about jumping with you, one person with a different falk rate, she's not ready for more people in formation with her.

Have you thought about adding a camera jacket so you can fly at her speeds? Accommodations should be made towards the new jumper, not the other way around, IMHO.

Exactly! Besides that, like others said, I bet she can work a lot on her body position. Last summer I jumped with a girl shorter than 5 feet and around 100lb as well. I am 5'10'' and around 166lb, and used a competition RW suit. Matching fall rate was not comfortable, but was definitely doable. Another guy came with us in a freefly suit and he couldn't keep up, he sinked like a stone. Similarly, later that year, I was jumping with a friend, a little bit heavier than 100lb, around 5'8''. We were freeflying and matching her was quite difficult for me. She took off the suit, put some tight jeans and a tight t-shirt and everything was perfect. Weight should be the last resort. And at 25 jumps considering big ways should be out of the question..

[Joellercoaster 6]

NWFlyer

Everyfuckingthing is new at 25 jumps and the stuff that has probably become routine to you might be a little overwhelming still. Introducing new variables is (and should be) a big deal.

This.

Changing the wingloading on an already pretty sporty canopy size (a 150 is a 150, even at 0.9) that someone already has very few jumps on is worth being cautious about. They're still figuring out how to land anything, let alone something that changes behaviour.

Changing the way someone's body feels in freefall at 25 jumps is worth being cautious about. Lead is weird to start with, and uncomfortable forever.

Realistically, a person that size will (almost) certainly end up wearing lead if she wants to do FS regularly, no matter how amazing her back flexibility. But I can understand her reluctance at this point, and it's worth respecting.

Patience

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[yvanpec 1]

If going head down is scary to her maybe you can teach her to sit fly ?

I dont have much experience but I did a two way last week with a guy weighing the same as I do and we separated and he started sit flying and he went down pretty fast.

I have about 30 jumps and I would feel more comfortable trying to sit fly than trying to go head down to keep up.

Better be on the ground wishing you were up there than being up there wishing you were on the ground.

[erdnarob 1]

First a well adjusted weight belt is not hurting. She can also work on abdominal and back muscles with appropriate exercises. She may have no choice than using weight if she really wants to participate to FS. She has to fall at 120 mph plus or minus 2 mph for belly formations. Even if she can compensate with her body when not having a weight belt, as soon as she will be distracted in freefall, she likely will forget to compensate to keep the speed and will popped up like a champagne cork. Having a weight belt adjusted makes her getting a speed and a standard natural position in freefall allowing for slowing down or accelerate.
Obviously, she also need a tight jumpsuit made of ripstop to minimize the added weight.
About you, you can fall slower with appropriate jumpsuit too.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Avikus 0]

Joellercoaster

***Everyfuckingthing is new at 25 jumps and the stuff that has probably become routine to you might be a little overwhelming still. Introducing new variables is (and should be) a big deal.

This.

Changing the wingloading on an already pretty sporty canopy size (a 150 is a 150, even at 0.9) that someone already has very few jumps on is worth being cautious about. They're still figuring out how to land anything, let alone something that changes behaviour.

You guys clearly miss my point. Common when you read a conversation and miss the tone of voice. For the point you are saying, yes, you are right. But it does not goes against where I was going with this.

And these change I wanted to offer her are not something to do on the very next jump, we talking long terme. Everything to help her live the sport to the maximum.

I doubt I'll be jumping with her anytime soon but it's a conversation she keeps having with me or other people and I just wanted something concrete to tell her so that she could move on and go toward that goal.

And I got what I needed already. Thanks guys.

Avikus - Packer and Jumper - Hate landing with the plane!

[NWFlyer 2]

Avikus

I doubt I'll be jumping with her anytime soon but it's a conversation she keeps having with me or other people and I just wanted something concrete to tell her so that she could move on and go toward that goal.

And I got what I needed already. Thanks guys.

You're good to help her out. I think (as I said earlier) connecting her if you can with someone more experienced who's been through the process might be the most helpful thing. I'm a fast faller myself; I can talk to other new jumpers about things I tried, what worked, what didn't work, etc. But I'll refer someone who's struggling on the other end to a fellow floaty-butt for advice.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

NWFlyer

...But I'll refer someone who's struggling on the other end to a fellow floaty-butt for advice.

Well, as a serious "floaty-butt", I'll chime in here.

Suit selection, including fabrics, fit and accessories make a huge difference.

Weights help some. They can be a real weight belt, or improvised.
If she doesn't like the belts, maybe a couple of dive weights in her pockets.
Yes, I'm serious. I used 5 lbs (a 2.5 and 2 x 1.25) and stuck them in the front pockets of my pants. The legstraps of the rig were above them and held them in place. It put the weight a little bit below my hips, but worked well. As a guy, I tend to be a bit "top heavy." Women have different weight distribution. YMMV (or maybe HMMV).

It didn't take me much weight to be able to fall with "normal" people. there were a couple "big boys" who I couldn't keep down with, but the regular guys had problems with them too.

As I progressed, I found that I was able to fall faster using better technique and I haven't used the weights for a while now.
Different things allow me to fall faster without maxing out. Better arch (duh), but also leg position, tucking arms in, that sort of thing.
It takes practice to be able to fly well while everything is "small", but I can keep down with most people and still be able to fly my slot (mostly) and still have enough "extra" that I can get down if (when) I end up high.
I do have to say that the first time I went low on a jump was a notable event (logged and yes, beer).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo