EV nightmare trip

[brenthutch 383]

“The following week, I fill up my Jetta at a local Shell station. Gas is up to $4.08 a gallon.

I inhale deeply. Fumes never smelled so sweet”
 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-rented-an-electric-car-for-a-four-day-road-trip-i-spent-more-time-charging-it-than-i-did-sleeping-11654268401

[jakee 1,254]

So when you literally design a trip to highlight the inadequacies of current EV charging infrastructure you find out that charging an EV on that trip is less than ideal?

 

Who knew?

[kallend 1,619]

6 hours ago, jakee said:

So when you literally design a trip to highlight the inadequacies of current EV charging infrastructure you find out that charging an EV on that trip is less than ideal?

 

Who knew?

“Every system is perfectly designed to get the result that it does.”; W. Edwards Deming.

[winsor 185]

I have travelled many thousands of miles in electric cars without having any problems with power availability.

Having a third rail, overhead line or, when necessary, a diesel generator available simplifies the issue.

An effective electric rail system is the way to go.  If we spent anywhere near as much on rail infrastructure as we do on bringing Truth, Justice and the American Way to the rest of the planet, owning an automobile of any type would be pointless.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[gowlerk 1,901]

35 minutes ago, winsor said:

Truth, Justice and the American Way to the rest of the planet,

Winsor! We agree on something.

[wmw999 2,114]

Yep. Mass transit, and less reliance on instant access requiring individual transportation. But both take a large commitment of either money or convenience on the part of people who have come to expect that they deserve to keep both for themselves.

Wendy P. 

[gowlerk 1,901]

Just now, wmw999 said:

Yep. Mass transit, and less reliance on instant access requiring individual transportation. But both take a large commitment of either money or convenience on the part of people who have come to expect that they deserve to keep both for themselves.

Wendy P. 

I'm guessing mass transit will never reach any DZs. Mass transit is only viable in heavily populated urban areas. It will never be a solution outside of them.

[airdvr 197]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:11 AM, gowlerk said:

I'm guessing mass transit will never reach any DZs. Mass transit is only viable in heavily populated urban areas. It will never be a solution outside of them.

I was getting ready to make the same point.  However, I think high speed rail city to city is needed as well.

[SkyDekker 1,120]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:11 AM, gowlerk said:

I'm guessing mass transit will never reach any DZs. Mass transit is only viable in heavily populated urban areas. It will never be a solution outside of them.

Urban areas account for 80% of the population.

[gowlerk 1,901]

25 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Urban areas account for 80% of the population.

Maybe if you count suburbia. Soccer moms are not going to take the bus. When I say "heavily populated urban areas" I mean city cores and places where parking is too expensive for the average person. 

[SkyDekker 1,120]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Maybe if you count suburbia. Soccer moms are not going to take the bus. When I say "heavily populated urban areas" I mean city cores and places where parking is too expensive for the average person.

Which is why bike and transit infrastructure needs to be upgraded. Suburban soccer moms don't take the bus, cause there is no really viable option for them AND gas has been cheap. If both change, soccer moms will be taking mass transit or cycle where weather permits.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Which is why bike and transit infrastructure needs to be upgraded. Suburban soccer moms don't take the bus, cause there is no really viable option for them AND gas has been cheap. If both change, soccer moms will be taking mass transit or cycle where weather permits.

Hi Sky,

This is what has driven the life-style that we have.  It will change.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,379]

This reminds me of how EV's ruin your weekend.

A few years back, the Labor party in Australia announced their support of EV's.  In an attempt to copy US politics, the Coalition party immediately opposed them, just because.  "EV's will ruin your weekend!" cried Scott Morrison, the PM - along with other BrentHutchian utterances.

This immediately became a rallying cry for EV owners, and they now enjoy posting explanations of how an EV did, indeed, ruin their weekend.  Some ruinations:

"Another weekend ruined, driving a total of 980km for a night in Bremer Bay which was overcast but beautiful!  2 charging stops each way at the Williams Tesla fast charger and the Katanning visitors centre charger which gave us time for brunch/lunch and then a pot of tea/coffee and a chance to stretch our legs. I can confirm that the battery has better range than my bladder. Total cost of charging was $18 at Katanning, rest was free. Bremer Bay Resort provides free Tesla charging and we still have Tesla charging credits we are using at the fast chargers."

"Collective ruining. Visited Kilmore, High Camp, Lancefield, Kyneton (for lunch and re-charge), Taradale then back to Melbourne. Checking respective bush blocks and enjoying country roads and fossil-free electric travel."

“Afternoon ruin out to Yennyenning Lakes which are full this year after good rain.”

“On the way to the Edge of the Bay festival in Esperance. Those magnificent flowers in this incredibly biodiverse region ruined my long weekend even more than the EV did!” 

“Drove from Melbourne to Nhill yesterday. Sunny and no rain. Ruined the day!”

“Sad to report that the Tesla totally wrecked the Bridgetown Blues Festival for me this year.”

"Why ruin the weekend when you can ruin a whole week?! Great to test out some of the new public EV fast chargers between Mildura and Melbourne last week."

 

https://thedriven.io/2021/12/23/i-ruined-the-weekend-electric-cars-owners-share-their-stories-about-ev-road-trips/

[yoink 321]

On 6/21/2022 at 6:21 PM, brenthutch said:

“The following week, I fill up my Jetta at a local Shell station. Gas is up to $4.08 a gallon.

I inhale deeply. Fumes never smelled so sweet”
 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-rented-an-electric-car-for-a-four-day-road-trip-i-spent-more-time-charging-it-than-i-did-sleeping-11654268401

Again, again and AGAIN Brent breaks the forum rules.

 

"External text from other sources:

Copying and pasting the words of somebody else is not a conversation. 

At the very least, the person should make a comment in relation to the wall of text they've copied and posted so we know where the poster himself stands in relationship to it. Give it some context so you aren't simply acting as a copy and paste meat robot on behalf for some PR firm, lobbying group, or news site"

 

@mods - I'm genuinely curious - what exactly does a troll need to do to be banned? Do you honestly think he adds value here? This isn't dissenting conversation. This is NO conversation. You KNOW Brent is a troll, but you put up with it. Why?

Edited June 24, 2022 by yoink

[billvon 2,379]

22 minutes ago, yoink said:

You KNOW Brent is a troll, but you put up with it. Why?

Don't assume we have.  We don't broadcast all moderation actions (unless there's something to be gained by publicly showing someone what they are doing wrong.)

[metalslug 31]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

"EV's will ruin your weekend!" cried Scott Morrison, the PM - along with other BrentHutchian utterances.

Morrison's statement was no less dishonest or deluded than opposing sentiments implying that motoring with EVs will not be less convenient than gas/diesel.  A more honest middle-ground statement would be along the lines of; "EV's might ruin your weekend but if all Aussies swapped their vehicles for EVs it will reduce total global emissions by a whopping  0.3%  and you might even enjoy the sanctimony of that, so suck it up." 

I won't be as bold as to claim that EV's have no advantages although it's certainly still subjective opinion for each motorist and some of this is covered in the OP article. The most obvious issue of course is the intended legislation to ban petrol/diesel vehicles. If the new government can't gaslight people with a proposition then they'll just beat them over the head with it and that will get interesting when compared to this

Other than public designated recharge stations, the expectation is that EV owners would charge their vehicles overnight at their home; perhaps in their garage, carport or driveway. What percentage (US and globally) of vehicle owners actually have a garage, carport or driveway approximate to where they park?  In many cases vehicle owners are obliged to park in public or communal areas overnight, sometimes a considerable distance from their door and/or any possible charge point.  Is there a recourse for these motorists? A recharge station at every public and communal parking bay?   A lot more recharge stations will need to become available to entice voluntary EV customers.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

10 hours ago, metalslug said:

Morrison's statement was no less dishonest or deluded than opposing sentiments implying that motoring with EVs will not be less convenient than gas/diesel.  A more honest middle-ground statement would be along the lines of; "EV's might ruin your weekend but if all Aussies swapped their vehicles for EVs it will reduce total global emissions by a whopping  0.3%  and you might even enjoy the sanctimony of that, so suck it up." 

I won't be as bold as to claim that EV's have no advantages although it's certainly still subjective opinion for each motorist and some of this is covered in the OP article. The most obvious issue of course is the intended legislation to ban petrol/diesel vehicles. If the new government can't gaslight people with a proposition then they'll just beat them over the head with it and that will get interesting when compared to this

Other than public designated recharge stations, the expectation is that EV owners would charge their vehicles overnight at their home; perhaps in their garage, carport or driveway. What percentage (US and globally) of vehicle owners actually have a garage, carport or driveway approximate to where they park?  In many cases vehicle owners are obliged to park in public or communal areas overnight, sometimes a considerable distance from their door and/or any possible charge point.  Is there a recourse for these motorists? A recharge station at every public and communal parking bay?   A lot more recharge stations will need to become available to entice voluntary EV customers.

Hi slug,

As I have posted before, when the auto first became available to buyers, they had to carry their own containers down to a pharmacy to get gas for the car.

Inconvenient at the time; but, the infrastructure soon came along.

I think we call it supply & demand.

Jerry Baumchen

[metalslug 31]

11 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi slug,

As I have posted before, when the auto first became available to buyers, they had to carry their own containers down to a pharmacy to get gas for the car.

Inconvenient at the time; but, the infrastructure soon came along.

I think we call it supply & demand.

Jerry Baumchen

In the present case I rather suspect supply needs to get way ahead of demand, else it's a bit like launching a new mobile phone network that only covers a dozen towns and then expecting to pull customers away from AT&T.  I think we call it competition.

[wmw999 2,114]

24 minutes ago, metalslug said:

In the present case I rather suspect supply needs to get way ahead of demand, else it's a bit like launching a new mobile phone network that only covers a dozen towns and then expecting to pull customers away from AT&T.  I think we call it competition.

In your analogy, the government has been helping AT&T along, giving them concessions and building infrastructure, for over a century. Only now their technology causes brain tumors, so maybe it's time to consider some other technology. Yeah, it's convenient, and the brain tumors mainly happen to people who live near the towers, and they're all poor, but do we, in fact, want to offer equal protection under the law?

Wendy P.

[billvon 2,379]

11 hours ago, metalslug said:

The expectation is that EV owners would charge their vehicles overnight at their home; perhaps in their garage, carport or driveway. What percentage (US and globally) of vehicle owners actually have a garage, carport or driveway approximate to where they park?  In many cases vehicle owners are obliged to park in public or communal areas overnight, sometimes a considerable distance from their door and/or any possible charge point.  Is there a recourse for these motorists? A recharge station at every public and communal parking bay?   A lot more recharge stations will need to become available to entice voluntary EV customers.

91% of Americans have either a house they own, a house they rent, a condo with dedicated parking that they own and has dedicated parking, or an apartment with dedicated parking.  These people have a straightforward path to getting  a charger.  In California, there's a law that says a landlord with X amount of dedicated parking has to install a charger if the tenant requests it.  (If there is any cost for installation, tenant pays for it.)

For people with no parking (or non-dedicated public street parking) Seattle now has a program where they will install a charger on a power pole nearby and stripe the parking near it EV-only.  They then charge you 2x for power to pay for the installation.  Several other cities have similar programs.

Also an option for such people is charging at work.  While I was at Qualcomm we put in over 100 plain old AC outlets for under $10,000.  They only deliver 1400 watts, but that's also a plus to the company - they don't take much power and are far cheaper to install than level 2 chargers.  And in this case there was a 400 kilowatt solar installation on the roof, so even the power was covered.

Finally destination charging will play a role.  Destination charging is low power charging near where you are going anyway - shopping centers, movie theaters, restaurants.  You park, plug in, go to dinner or whatever, come back out and unplug.  There are 311 charging stations with between 2 and 24 plugs each within 30 miles of me, for a total of over 1200 places to charge.  83 of them are free.  San Diego is ahead of the curve here certainly, but there's no reason that other small cities can't do what San Diego did.

[kallend 1,619]

My local shopping center has a bunch of charging stations in its parking lot.

The campus where I used to teach has charging stations in every lot.

No shortage of charging infrastructure in Chicago.

[SethInMI 145]

it's not useful to post links that are behind paywalls. The link had a video that I could watch that had impressions from WSJ staffers from all over the world who were given experiences in electric cars to see how they compared, but I have no idea if that at all related to the actual article. 

I have had my Tesla Model 3 for 10 months and put 12000+ miles on it. I have had no nightmare experiences. I assume that the writer of the article did not have a Tesla, and therefore had trouble finding fast chargers, which is a temporary problem.

I am not sure what point @brenthutch is trying to make. Is he trying to say the world is making a huge mistake going electric and we will all live to regret it? Or just pointing out that buying a non-Tesla may make road trips harder in the short term?

[billvon 2,379]

21 minutes ago, SethInMI said:

I am not sure what point @brenthutch is trying to make. Is he trying to say the world is making a huge mistake going electric and we will all live to regret it? Or just pointing out that buying a non-Tesla may make road trips harder in the short term?

If the people he believes to be liberal support EV's he will oppose them, and post anything he can find that shows them in a negative light.

That's his point.  He's more like an angry fan at a football match than a debater.  Doesn't matter what the issue is; he's going to cheer for his team and try to piss off the fans for the other team. If he pisses them off, he is successful.

[mistercwood 287]

20 hours ago, yoink said:

@mods - I'm genuinely curious - what exactly does a troll need to do to be banned? Do you honestly think he adds value here? This isn't dissenting conversation. This is NO conversation. You KNOW Brent is a troll, but you put up with it. Why?

I've adjusted my position on this one, I no longer think he's on the DZ.com payroll for engagement purposes. I think he's the one paying the Mods now. I can understand them wanting to get a little sugar on the side...  

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

55 minutes ago, SethInMI said:

it's not useful to post links that are behind paywalls. The link had a video that I could watch that had impressions from WSJ staffers from all over the world who were given experiences in electric cars to see how they compared, but I have no idea if that at all related to the actual article. 

I have had my Tesla Model 3 for 10 months and put 12000+ miles on it. I have had no nightmare experiences. I assume that the writer of the article did not have a Tesla, and therefore had trouble finding fast chargers, which is a temporary problem.

I am not sure what point @brenthutch is trying to make. Is he trying to say the world is making a huge mistake going electric and we will all live to regret it? Or just pointing out that buying a non-Tesla may make road trips harder in the short term?

Hi Seth,

Re:  I am not sure what point @brenthutch is trying to make.

Welcome to the club.

Jerry Baumchen