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bbrodes

Jumping into my back yard

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Hopefully there are people out there with more knowledge than me that can help. It is possible that I just passed by regulations on this in the SIM, but I can't find anything on it. What are the regulations on jumping and landing at a place other than a dropzone, but not a public event? In the sim it says the need a d (sometimes c) to do demos, and they mention the fact that the regulations are there because it is a public event and there are people standing around the landing area. Not just because it is off the dz.For example, I live in a rural area and have a large field behind my house that I always wanted to land in. Hypothetically, if had a pilot drop me off overhead would that be illegal? Would it be illegal per FAA or USPA or both? Any input would be great. I'm not saying I'm going to do it or I even have the means to do it, but if it is legal I would like to find a way. Some may call me stupid but after landing off plenty of times in much worse places I would feel comfortable with it if I actually went through with it. I know people have done this, but I don't know what the laws/regs are. Thanks!

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The pilot files a NOTAM with the closest center...they usually get approved without question, however they may ask for some info on you.

Doubtful but I've had it happen, are your trained & licensed, gear up to date etc. No biggie.

Pilot should contact center just prior to and at the time of the jump...As in - Parachute activities will begin in five minutes & then Jumper is away...when you exit.

If you are going into your own private land it's all good. If it's not yours you may want to ask permission first...good manners.

Most everything is geared toward the pilot - 'no pilot shall allow' type of stuff...which means it's more his ass than yours if you screw thing up, so take care to do it right and he'll probably do it again & often for ya! ;)

Be safe!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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mcordell

I live on 12 acres and I have landed on my property probably over 100 times. It's not a big deal if you follow a few steps. It's also not a big deal if you don't follow those steps.



Well....it's not a big deal as long as everything goes as planned.

The pilot may end up career wise ~ flyin' a cargo plane full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong if things go sideways as far as crater making. :)

Just sayin'










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

***I live on 12 acres and I have landed on my property probably over 100 times. It's not a big deal if you follow a few steps. It's also not a big deal if you don't follow those steps.



Well....it's not a big deal as long as everything goes as planned.

The pilot may end up career wise ~ flyin' a cargo plane full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong if things go sideways as far as crater making. :)

Just sayin'

I guess I meant it's not a big deal to the jumper :)

As far as the pilot...nobody pays attention to anything we do out here...
www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

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Zoso

Here's the article Bill is referring to. It will answer all of your questions:

http://www.dropzone.com/safety/General_Safety/Jumping_Away_from_the_Normal_Dropzone_896.html



Thank you. Mike and I wrote that article to answer questions just like these. As you can see, some of the older jumpers still refer to "NOTAM" rather than "notification". They are not the same.

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peek

***Here's the article Bill is referring to. It will answer all of your questions:

http://www.dropzone.com/safety/General_Safety/Jumping_Away_from_the_Normal_Dropzone_896.html



Thank you. Mike and I wrote that article to answer questions just like these. As you can see, some of the older jumpers still refer to "NOTAM" rather than "notification". They are not the same.


OLD huh?! >:(










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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bbrodes

Is it possible to safely exit a low wing airplane like a piper?



It is...I've done it many times, even with the door on.

But now you're getting into a gray area as far as SHOULD YOU do it.

Takes a bit of practice spotting a low wing with the door on...gotta train your eyes to see through the wing. Sundowner or Warrior for example.

Takes a savvy pilot because he needs to go into a rather radical slip to let you get the door open enough to get out.

There is a considerable chance of hanging up something in the process...snag your reserve handle and you both could have an interesting day.

Some of them have a wind-lock that won't allow the door to open if in flight...can be circumvented with a pocket knife but is all that really worth it?

The larger Pipers like a Cherokee with a rear door can be flown without the door and safely jumped...there's paperwork involved to do it with FAA ok.

How about ya find someone with a 2seat powered parachute - cheaper - easier - more fun!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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bbrodes

Is it possible to safely exit a low wing airplane like a piper?



I've jumped from a Grumman Tiger, but a high wing would be safer. A Cessna 150/152 or a 172 would be good. IIRC, opening the window will make it easier to open the door. I haven't read part 105 in decades, but your pilot will probably need to be wearing a rig.

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You need permission from the land owner of the LZ. I would get it in writing to be safe. We jumped into my house for years back in the 1990's. The back yard was beside a 30 acre open field and the farmer loved to watch us jump.
We would have winter skydiving parties at my house. The wife would make a huge pot of chili and all kinds of snacks. My dad would drive 8 of us over to the local airport in his van and fly 2 loads in his 180 then drive back after the second load to pick us up again. We packed in the living room, Florida room and basement. Good times. It was more about the socalizing than the skydiving. Of course there was always a good party after the jumping was over.

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bbrodes

Is it possible to safely exit a low wing airplane like a piper?

been there, done that many times, but.....
How good is your spotting ability? Do you regularly spot loads out of a Cessna, or just maybe look and go, or maybe just wait for the green light? Spotting a low-wing requires a fair amount of skill and some knowledge of the area. You need to be able to reference landmarks a long way ahead of the aircraft for heading and a long way out to the side of the aircraft for timing your exit.
How good is your gear? Climbout on a low-wing is more interesting than on a jump ship. You don't want anything coming loose, especially since the pilot won't be wearing a bail-out rig.
How good is the pilot? He'll have to cut the throttle, drop the nose and slip the aircraft in order for you to be able to climb out and still maintain control of the aircraft.
How disciplined can you be on exit? You'll have to climb out facing the front of the plane, get one foot on the step, get low, and then release down, staying small so you don't hit the tail.
Bottom line, it can be done safely, but it's not like jumping on a turbo-prop and waiting for the light.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

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FlyingRhenquest

***
Some of them have a wind-lock that won't allow the door to open if in flight...can be circumvented with a pocket knife but is all that really worth it?



... is that a rhetorical question? :P


:D:D Point Taken!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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dzswoop717

You need permission from the land owner of the LZ. I would get it in writing to be safe. We jumped into my house for years back in the 1990's. The back yard was beside a 30 acre open field and the farmer loved to watch us jump.
We would have winter skydiving parties at my house. The wife would make a huge pot of chili and all kinds of snacks. My dad would drive 8 of us over to the local airport in his van and fly 2 loads in his 180 then drive back after the second load to pick us up again. We packed in the living room, Florida room and basement. Good times. It was more about the socalizing than the skydiving. Of course there was always a good party after the jumping was over.




This is how the RoamingDZ and the St.Patricks Day Boogie got it's start. New Years and 4th of July into my back yard.

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I did a demo in Tijuana, Mexico once from a Bellanca Viking with a Mexican pilot who had no concept of "cut". As I started to climb out the lanyard on the smoke went tight and I heard the "pop". Knowing what was next I told my partner in the back seat that I had to leave and to get out as soon as he could. I just rolled off the back of the wing and started a hard track to get back to the airport. The answer to the question is "Yes, it can be safe if all goes well". My partner wasn't so lucky. He landed on the side of a quarry and suffered bumps and bruises. This was in the days before squares.
If you know how many guns you have - you don't have enough!

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Quote

Some of them have a wind-lock that won't allow the door to open if in flight...can be circumvented with a pocket knife but is all that really worth it?


How about ya find someone with a 2seat powered parachute - cheaper - easier - more fun!




Reply:
Actually the only aircraft that have a wind lock to prevent the door from being opened in flight are the Boeing 727 and the DC-9, MD-80 series. These locks are on the aft airstairs only and are referred to as "DB Cooper" locks, for obvious reasons. I am 100% sure that they are on the 727. The DC-9 and MD-80 may have some other way to prevent deployment than a true "wind lock". I do not believe there are any light aircraft with such a device.

It is illegal to jump from a Part 103 Ultralight 2 seat powered parachute. It is illegal to jump from an Experimental 2 seat powered parachute. I am not sure about a Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) 2 seat powered parachute, but it may be illegal and probably depends on the operating limitations in the POH for that particular aircraft.

Mike Mullins

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michaelmullins

Quote

Some of them have a wind-lock that won't allow the door to open if in flight...can be circumvented with a pocket knife but is all that really worth it?


How about ya find someone with a 2seat powered parachute - cheaper - easier - more fun!




Reply:
Actually the only aircraft that have a wind lock to prevent the door from being opened in flight are the Boeing 727 and the DC-9, MD-80 series. These locks are on the aft airstairs only and are referred to as "DB Cooper" locks, for obvious reasons. I am 100% sure that they are on the 727. The DC-9 and MD-80 may have some other way to prevent deployment than a true "wind lock". I do not believe there are any light aircraft with such a device.

It is illegal to jump from a Part 103 Ultralight 2 seat powered parachute. It is illegal to jump from an Experimental 2 seat powered parachute. I am not sure about a Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) 2 seat powered parachute, but it may be illegal and probably depends on the operating limitations in the POH for that particular aircraft.

Mike Mullins



Not questioning you on this but what makes it illegal to jump from an ultralight? I can't say I have heard that before. Afaik it is not illegal from a lsa powered parachute but I never looked into the ultralight aspect. Why would it matter?

ETA never mind. I was thinking there were no 2 seat ultralights by definition but I found where they are allowed for training. Never knew that. Point is you are not likely to find one. A 2 seat powered parachute you are likely to find is a LSA which falls under the same regulation as other small aircraft we jump out of and the pilot has to be licensed. I don't see why you couldn't jump those and I have. It's fun.
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mcordell

***

Quote

Some of them have a wind-lock that won't allow the door to open if in flight...can be circumvented with a pocket knife but is all that really worth it?


How about ya find someone with a 2seat powered parachute - cheaper - easier - more fun!




Reply:
Actually the only aircraft that have a wind lock to prevent the door from being opened in flight are the Boeing 727 and the DC-9, MD-80 series. These locks are on the aft airstairs only and are referred to as "DB Cooper" locks, for obvious reasons. I am 100% sure that they are on the 727. The DC-9 and MD-80 may have some other way to prevent deployment than a true "wind lock". I do not believe there are any light aircraft with such a device.

It is illegal to jump from a Part 103 Ultralight 2 seat powered parachute. It is illegal to jump from an Experimental 2 seat powered parachute. I am not sure about a Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) 2 seat powered parachute, but it may be illegal and probably depends on the operating limitations in the POH for that particular aircraft.

Mike Mullins



Quote

***Not questioning you on this but what makes it illegal to jump from an ultralight? I can't say I have heard that before. Afaik it is not illegal from a lsa powered parachute but I never looked into the ultralight aspect. Why would it matter?

ETA never mind. I was thinking there were no 2 seat ultralights by definition but I found where they are allowed for training. Never knew that. Point is you are not likely to find one. A 2
seat powered parachute you are likely to find is a LSA which falls under the same regulation as other small aircraft we jump out of and the pilot has to be licensed. I don't see why you couldn't jump those and I have. It's fun.



Reply:
2 seat ultralights have an exemption that allows them to be used for pilot training only. Not legal to jump from any Experimental aircraft, it is in the operating limitations.

Experimental LSA Operating Limitations (ELSA)
18. This aircraft must not be used for banner towing operations or intentional parachute jumping.

As far as a Light Sport Aircraft (LSA), such as Cessna Skycatcher, you would need to look at the Pilots Operating Manual for the Operating Limitations for that particular aircraft or any limitations on the Airworthiness Certificate. There are SLSA(Special LSA) powered parachutes and you would also need to look at the same limitations.

So, as for any ELSA it is not legal to jump. For a SLSA or a LSA, it may be or may not be legal to jump.

Mike Mullins

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Reply:
Actually the only aircraft that have a wind lock to prevent the door from being opened in flight are the Boeing 727 and the DC-9, MD-80 series. These locks are on the aft airstairs only and are referred to as "DB Cooper" locks, for obvious reasons. I am 100% sure that they are on the 727. The DC-9 and MD-80 may have some other way to prevent deployment than a true "wind lock". I do not believe there are any light aircraft with such a device.



Hi Mike ~

I may be using the wrong term then...

I have several jumps out of a friends Sundowner that has a devise that looks like a small tab on the top outside of the right door. It's spring loaded and situated in a manner that allows the wind across the fuselage to push it rearward, engaging a recessed hook in the door frame to a bar on the door.

The thin blade of an swiss army knife works well to slide the hook forward out of position allowing the egress handle to open the door.

Sundowners had a problem with the door opening unexpectedly in flight...there were a couple of ways to address that - maybe the devise on his isn't factory installed or fleet wide.

I sent him an inquire email for the specifics...but it's definitely there.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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