0
stratostar

Citizens for quiet skies

Recommended Posts

Okay....

After reviewing this thread, and talking with a few more people, some actions are really necessary!

Take a few minutes of your time here on DZ.com and go to USPA.org and emaill Board members. Be nice! Invite them to read the thread, invite USPA to help in this issue as an organization whose charter is "the promotion of safe skydiving," and invite them to evaluate this as an airport access issue.

If cities/counties/boards can deny use permits for land for skydiving, then they trump the FAA stating that only the FAA governs aeronautical activities. Once word gets out, every Part 16 complaint will switch to a zoning issue, airport boards will just ask the city/county to require a special use permit for skydiving businesses, and those will simply be denied.

The Federal DOT has ruled that a "head tax" for skydiving is illegal for states, counties, etc to impose, as only the Feds have the authority to regulate and tax skydiving. USPA needs to be shown that these issues are not unrelated and we need to fight this early before it gets out of hand.

Call, write, email, whatever. Let the Board know that this should be addressed at the upcoming meeting, and action taken. (As a former BOD member, be nice! It was hard to read things where I was being called names or put down for being on the BOD, I just tended to stop reading. Be brief, be informative, be inviting.)

Thanks,

top
Jump more, post less!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK Top, I just e-mailed USPA Governmental Affairs Office politely asking them to engage this issue if they have not already done so. Along with the request was a modest contribution (to be followed by more modest contributions) to the AAD Fund.

I humbly encourage all here to contribute what you can. As it has been said so many times before, "Money talks and bullshit walks!" If we are all agreed that this action has wider national implications, then it is time to make the stand now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
craigbey

Quote

You might want to rethink advocacy, where it starts and who it starts with



Also agreed. You are right about advocacy. The ongoing efforts of yourself and others is very important.

Sorry, I was referring to any action at the airport or LZ.

FastRon:
http://www.uspa.org/AboutUSPA/Donations/tabid/316/Default.aspx



Thanks Craig- I sent money to the AAD fund early this a.m., and am sending a matching amount to the DZO. I also e-mailed them why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have received a few emails and calls from BOD members saying a couple of things. First, they are aware of the situation and have been taking action on it. Second, there is more to this situation than is present on this thread. Understandably, they cannot share details with me due to confidentiality.

I was told this is on the agenda for the upcoming BOD meeting in Vegas in a couple of committees.

Hopefully, we can see some more action on USPA's part to help out.

But keep emailing! it's good for them to know how many members care!

top
Jump more, post less!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you really think that the USPA isn't on this case?

Land use away from an obligated airport CAN be regulated/permitted/zoned to deny skydiving because the city, state, county CAN regulate the ground activities. Just because the FAA regulates aviation, that doesn't mean you can put a heliport, airport or DZ just anywhere you would like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
grimmie

Do you really think that the USPA isn't on this case?

Land use away from an obligated airport CAN be regulated/permitted/zoned to deny skydiving because the city, state, county CAN regulate the ground activities. Just because the FAA regulates aviation, that doesn't mean you can put a heliport, airport or DZ just anywhere you would like.



All the above do require use permits. The also require changes to the land itself. A landing area does not if it is already an open field. Cattle and crops can continue to be raised there. Once a skydiver is on the ground, he/she is a pedestrian. Are you saying the county can limit the pedestrian use of your land? Especially when we are talking small group numbers here, not concert numbers.

And the county has created this mess by denying the DZ use of land on the airport. It's gonna look bad for them when the part 16 comes in with, " We tried to accommodate the county request that we not use the airport property, but then they wouldn't let us use private property either!"

top
Jump more, post less!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
topdocker

***Do you really think that the USPA isn't on this case?

Land use away from an obligated airport CAN be regulated/permitted/zoned to deny skydiving because the city, state, county CAN regulate the ground activities. Just because the FAA regulates aviation, that doesn't mean you can put a heliport, airport or DZ just anywhere you would like.



All the above do require use permits. The also require changes to the land itself. A landing area does not if it is already an open field. Cattle and crops can continue to be raised there. Once a skydiver is on the ground, he/she is a pedestrian. Are you saying the county can limit the pedestrian use of your land? Especially when we are talking small group numbers here, not concert numbers.

And the county has created this mess by denying the DZ use of land on the airport. It's gonna look bad for them when the part 16 comes in with, " We tried to accommodate the county request that we not use the airport property, but then they wouldn't let us use private property either!"

top

Skydivers landing on the property zoned for agriculture turn the property into B-1 or B-2, commercial. It is a continuation of the service provided by the DZO. They are then provided with a ride back to the airport by the DZO. They are not pedestrians they are customers.
As for “how it makes them look” I doubt that will be an issue.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sometimes it's not just as in Boulder. Here is a quote from my own part 13 case, where the city tried to pull out the zoning card... I need a special use permit on a federal funded airport to conduct parachute operations, but now we are going to change the zoning to no longer allow.

Quote

Currently the Airport is zoned GPI (General Public and Institutional). The current zoning allows public institutions and uses but may not allow future industrial or commercial development at the Airport. The GPI district allows recreational facilities uses but would only allow parachuting activities through approval of a special use permit. The City is seeking to have the property rezoned to IG (Industrial General) which would allow better usage of the property for commercial and industrial purposes. However, parachuting is a recreational facilities use that is not permitted in an IG district.. The rezoning process will conclude in August.

The City would consider a proposal that would establish a business at the airport, lease property, construct a facility and use the Airport for take off and landing of aircraft. The City’s airport manager will not approve skydiving/ parachuting to land on the airport property.



What is kind of funny is in my case they claim it's a recreational use, and in Boulder's case they are claiming it's not a recreational use....:S:D:S
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sounds like you need to make it a point to go find him and not only buy the guy lunch and a cold beer, but hell give him ride in the plane a free jump if wants one, and end of the day extend that hand and tell him stop by anytime and visit.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://www.timescall.com/longmont-local-news/ci_26003605/quiet-skies-lawsuit-against-skydiving-is-set-trial

'Quiet Skies' lawsuit against skydiving is set for trial

Posted: 06/20/2014 08:36:33 PM MDT | Updated: a day ago

A lawsuit claiming Mile Hi Skydiving is making too much noise in its flights has been set for trial April 13.

The Longmont-based group Citizens for Quiet Skies filed the suit in October after two years of disputes with the company. Mile Hi has operated out of Longmont’s Vance Brand Municipal Airport since 1995 and has flown its most recognized plane, a purple and white De Havilland Twin Otter, since 1999; noise complaints against Mile Hi began to increase in 2009.

Quiet Skies claims the noise affects thousands of Boulder County residents, particularly on weekends. Supporters of Mile Hi have disputed the amount of noise and its effects, while city officials have said there’s little they can do to change things without running afoul of the Federal Aviation Adiministration.

The case is in Boulder County District Court. The trial has been scheduled for five days, to be heard by Judge Judith LaBuda.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amazon

I think there is something more of a hard in for skydivers than just the noise....

Which one of you guys at Mile Hi did not show up for that online dating blind date..



You nailed it. This isn't about noise--it's about power. The same kind of power that HOAs use to keep American flags off houses in their developments--or tell you what color your mailbox has to be. Her comment about showing up with 100 folks at the next meeting is the clue. I suspect that even if you could make an airplane totally silent it wouldn't matter to her--she'd find a reason to complain. It's not noise--it's skydiving.....it's "outside the box" activity that doesn't conform to her idea of what's socially and politically correct.

Someone suggested "taking the gloves off". While I am generally in favor of amicable solutions--there are some folks who can't be dealt with that way. It's time to play hardball with the cqs and her--she left herself open to that by placing her name on the complaint. Demand that the Colorado AG investigate her financing, her use of "donations" and if any of the donors are taking a tax deduction for contributing and disclose who her contributors are and how much they contributed, if she is using any of those funds to contribute to politicians, her personal income, her own land use and conformity to the zoning regs of her own property, etc. If the AG won't do it then file a lawsuit against the cqs and her personally demanding full disclosure of all her activities, financing, donor lists, bank account information, accounting statements, who she or the cqs paid for what....the list goes on and on. Yes, it costs. But--if she and her PC friends win again--the dominoes begin to fall. The only thing someone with power wants is more. It won't stop with this case. So far, all the pain has been on one side--it's time to make this painful on the other side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
katzas

***I think there is something more of a hard in for skydivers than just the noise....

Which one of you guys at Mile Hi did not show up for that online dating blind date..



You nailed it. This isn't about noise--it's about power. The same kind of power that HOAs use to keep American flags off houses in their developments--or tell you what color your mailbox has to be. Her comment about showing up with 100 folks at the next meeting is the clue. I suspect that even if you could make an airplane totally silent it wouldn't matter to her--she'd find a reason to complain. It's not noise--it's skydiving.....it's "outside the box" activity that doesn't conform to her idea of what's socially and politically correct.

Someone suggested "taking the gloves off". While I am generally in favor of amicable solutions--there are some folks who can't be dealt with that way. It's time to play hardball with the cqs and her--she left herself open to that by placing her name on the complaint. Demand that the Colorado AG investigate her financing, her use of "donations" and if any of the donors are taking a tax deduction for contributing and disclose who her contributors are and how much they contributed, if she is using any of those funds to contribute to politicians, her personal income, her own land use and conformity to the zoning regs of her own property, etc. If the AG won't do it then file a lawsuit against the cqs and her personally demanding full disclosure of all her activities, financing, donor lists, bank account information, accounting statements, who she or the cqs paid for what....the list goes on and on. Yes, it costs. But--if she and her PC friends win again--the dominoes begin to fall. The only thing someone with power wants is more. It won't stop with this case. So far, all the pain has been on one side--it's time to make this painful on the other side.

^ This. The only thing this type of people will respect (fear) is scorched earth.
Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
normiss

I really hope they are given some key GPS points.
:)

P-3's and Herc's at low level flight.
I can feel the walls shaking with anticipation.



If they were doing this over my house i would want a detailed timetable.

So I could be sure to be sitting out back with a cold beer to enjoy the flyby :)
Ive lived in a couple of house that were on the flight line to major airports, absolutely love sitting outside watching the traffic :)
Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We're just over a mile from a decent sized international airport (we've had Dreamliners and A-380's).
I LOVE LOVE LOVE when the storm cells force the heavies directly over our house.
Nothing cooler than looking into a passenger window just a few hundred feet over the house on a wingtip!
Andrea laughs at me when in the middle of a conversation, I hear something different and can't stop....I go running outside like a fat kid after the ice cream truck.

A few flight schools, so we see a lot of Cessna's, Cirrus, and a couple of small twins all day every day. Some sweet business jets.

The ghetto buzzard flies pretty regular too. THAT one I hate.

I love airports! Of course I don't have insomnia and sit outside in the dark and whisper about THAT SUPER LOUD AIRCRAFT KEEPING ME AWAKE on a video where the birds and crickets are louder than the damn aircraft. [:/]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Had a pretty goo laugh a couple of years ago when I was Penang, Malaysia. Hanging out at a beach bar and a bunch of fighter jets blast by at low level over the water.

Half hour later it happens again. The other tourist at the bar start complaining about how noisy and disruptive it is, the locals say sorry but the military are training all week and they run laps around the island every afternoon.

Cant find any decent pictures of the jets, but I can not understand why the other tourist didn't enjoy it when 5 fighters blasted over the hills at sunset
Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0