Airplane maintenance and safety

[bdb2004 24]

GoJump Oceanside has had two Caravan crashes in the past six months.  Maybe it was coincidence, maybe it was careless flying, maybe it was bad maintenance, maybe it was something else entirely.  I honestly have no idea....and that is why I ask the following question.  

As a relatively inexperienced jumper with no flight experience whatsoever, I am simply not aware of most aircraft issues that could have catastrophic consequences.  Sure, there are obvious things I can be aware of.  I can look at the fuel gauge when I get in the plane, I can tell if the pilot is acting more like an acrobatic pilot than a jump pilot, etc.  

So, what ARE the things that myself or others like me should be aware of, be keeping an eye out for, etc?   I'm not talking about looking over the maintenance records on a weekly basis and generally being a pain in the ass, but rather, what are the basic things we should know (but that most of us, I am guessing, don't).  

Edited June 7, 2022 by bdb2004

[riggerrob 558]

Listen and watch quietly.

How deep is the tread on the tires?

Is paint cracked?

Is rust or corrosion visible?

If manifest routinely reminds the pilot to top off the fuel and oil ... that is a good habit.

If the pilot does a pre-flight inspection before the first students arrive every morning, that is a good habit. If he/she stares at the fuel sample for a few seconds, that is a good habit. If he cleans all the dead bugs off of the windshield, that is a good habit. 

If he promptly orders fresh bugs, that is a good habit.

If the pilot compulsively "dips" the fuel tanks every between loads, that is a good habit.

If he keeps a spare can of oil handy, that is a good habit.

If he reminds everyone to fasten seat-belts before taxiing, that is a good habit.

If the pilot reminds everyone to sit quietly until above 1,000 feet, that is a good habit. If he consistently keeps instruments "in the green" that is a good habit.

If the pilot leaves notes for the mechanic every Sunday evening, that is a good habit.

If a mechanic routinely looks over the airplane (formally called a 25 hour inspection) every Monday morning, that is a good thing. If the mechanic washes used oil from the belly, that is a good habit.

Most of those habits are visible to a casual observer. Remember that most piston-pounding jump-planes are more than 25 years old and based upon even older technology, so they require more maintenance than your 5 year old car.

While turbine-engined jump-planes tend to be younger, and can go longer between inspections, they have been around-the-block and their airworthiness depends upon the diligence of the last mechanic.

The brightest DZOs treat their airplanes as long term investments - like retirement funds - and keep the value up by constant maintenance.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

10 hours ago, bdb2004 said:

GoJump Oceanside has had two Caravan crashes in the past six months.  Maybe it was coincidence, maybe it was careless flying, maybe it was bad maintenance, maybe it was something else entirely.  I honestly have no idea....and that is why I ask the following question.  

As a relatively inexperienced jumper with no flight experience whatsoever, I am simply not aware of most aircraft issues that could have catastrophic consequences.  Sure, there are obvious things I can be aware of.  I can look at the fuel gauge when I get in the plane, I can tell if the pilot is acting more like an acrobatic pilot than a jump pilot, etc.  

So, what ARE the things that myself or others like me should be aware of, be keeping an eye out for, etc?   I'm not talking about looking over the maintenance records on a weekly basis and generally being a pain in the ass, but rather, what are the basic things we should know (but that most of us, I am guessing, don't).  

Brother you are on track. First up is the first crash. What did it tell you? Bad luck? Pilot inexperience? Was asking the DZO what was up if you didn't feel comfortable a possibility? Did you already know that the DZO's don't know jack about flying or maintenance, and that they can't fly the airplanes and are always struggling to find pilots? Then you already know the problem. These terrible events continue to happen because of skydivers. Two bucks extra a jump or whether your friends jump there aren't valid criteria unless you don't give a fuck.That's the problem.

[grimmie 173]

A DZs aircraft fleet and operation is in direct proportion to the skill and care of the DZO.

[Deisel 35]

I look at how the pilot flies the airplane. If they are doing unusual take-offs, zero g jump runs, wing overs after the last jumper exits, and has a cavalier attitude, these are red flags for me personally. Some people are good with it. I also look for reckless canopy pilots the same way. When I get to a new DZ I'll sit with the spectators and just observe a few loads. Check out the vibe and see if there's anything weird going on. Then I'll ask questions about it to try and gage the general attitude toward safety. Never forget that there are always other places to jump if it doesn't feel right. 

[bdb2004 24]

All of this makes good sense, thank you!

A follow up question....if a plane is frequently (1 or 2 times a month) not flying due to unexpected maintenence,  is that a good sign or bad sign? On one hand its a little disconcerting that the plane is grounded, but on the other shows they're serious about not flying if it isn't running well. Thoughts?

[riggerrob 558]

1 hour ago, bdb2004 said:

All of this makes good sense, thank you!

A follow up question....if a plane is frequently (1 or 2 times a month) not flying due to unexpected maintenence,  is that a good sign or bad sign? On one hand its a little disconcerting that the plane is grounded, but on the other shows they're serious about not flying if it isn't running well. Thoughts?

The best operators find problems during the their regularly-scheduled Monday morning inspection (licensed aircraft maintenance engineer).

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

1 hour ago, bdb2004 said:

All of this makes good sense, thank you!

A follow up question....if a plane is frequently (1 or 2 times a month) not flying due to unexpected maintenence,  is that a good sign or bad sign? On one hand its a little disconcerting that the plane is grounded, but on the other shows they're serious about not flying if it isn't running well. Thoughts?

Hi 2004,

The late Jim Lowe used to say that it was OK to patch the aircraft together with bailing wire on a busy weekend.  But, on Monday morning, you got it fixed properly.

He was talking about Ted Mayfield's dz, where if the bailing wire was working, why change it.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, bdb2004 said:

All of this makes good sense, thank you!

A follow up question....if a plane is frequently (1 or 2 times a month) not flying due to unexpected maintenence,  is that a good sign or bad sign? On one hand its a little disconcerting that the plane is grounded, but on the other shows they're serious about not flying if it isn't running well. Thoughts?

Any aircraft can have a problem any day and any operator can have a bad month but it shouldn't be a regular thing. Keep in mind that we use aircraft in way's the designers didn't contemplate. 30 take-offs and landings in a Caravan in a day is about half what they were designed to do in a month. Just consider the flap system: down and up for take-off, down and up for jump run, down (and maybe up) for landing. And that's just one load. All ascents and descents are performance flights. Most take-offs are at gross weight or close. So there is ample opportunity to wear things out or get a crack somewhere from metal fatigue in an airframe that is usually decades old. The list is long. All of that means we need to do a lot of maintenance and not defer items as a general matter. Good operators stay on top of things and use the off season to get ready for the next season. They tend to have very little down time.

[bdb2004 24]

This has all been super helpful. Thank you!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

What kind of 'after hours' stuff does your DZ have?
Is there a bonfire on Saturday nights?

Or just hanging around talking about 'everything'?

This is a perfect subject for that.

Especially if the pilot(s) are there.
And even if the DZ pilot isn't there, you'll find that there's almost always one or two jumpers that are either pilots, A&P (airplane mechanics) or at least know enough to give you some good answers.

Warning: Once you get a pilot talking about 'airplane stuff', it can be hard to get them to stop. 

This is why there's 'beer rules'. 
Hand the pilot a beer and ask him about proper maintenance, various 'tells' on if a plane is properly cared for (or not) and what sort of things he's seen, both good and bad, at various places. 

[kleggo 138]

On 6/7/2022 at 11:55 AM, bdb2004 said:

GoJump Oceanside has had two Caravan crashes in the past six months.  Maybe it was coincidence, maybe it was careless flying, maybe it was bad maintenance, maybe it was something else entirely. 

Here is the preliminary NTSB report for the February incident.

I encourage you to read it and continue educating yourself.

Craig

 

Oside crash Feb 2022 prelim report.pdf

[kleggo 138]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:24 PM, JoeWeber said:

Any aircraft can have a problem any day and any operator can have a bad month but it shouldn't be a regular thing. Keep in mind that we use aircraft in way's the designers didn't contemplate. 30 take-offs and landings in a Caravan in a day is about half what they were designed to do in a month. Just consider the flap system: down and up for take-off, down and up for jump run, down (and maybe up) for landing. And that's just one load. All ascents and descents are performance flights. Most take-offs are at gross weight or close. So there is ample opportunity to wear things out or get a crack somewhere from metal fatigue in an airframe that is usually decades old. The list is long. All of that means we need to do a lot of maintenance and not defer items as a general matter. Good operators stay on top of things and use the off season to get ready for the next season. They tend to have very little down time.

well written.

[riggerrob 558]

16 hours ago, kleggo said:

well written.

Since King Air jump-panes are used considerably differently from their original design mission, Beechcraft forbid the notion of operating past TBO "on condition." When Beechcraft originally developed the King Air (from its piston-pounding Queen Air predecessor) they expected it to fly 2 to 4 times per day with a hour or 4 of cruising between landings. OTOH King Air jump-planes do 3 or 4 landings per hour and rarely cruise ... just the opposite of the original mission. Jump-planes do hundreds more cycles per year than originally planned, hence moving parts wear out far faster.